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Posts posted by number13

  1. On 1/2/2019 at 10:06 PM, Lord English said:

    Soooo....Is there any official/canonical art? Also, do we have any specific details on Perrin & Slayer e.g. height, weight, etcetera


    I don't know if it helps any, but Slayer would look similar to either Rand or Lan, depending on which form he's in (Luc or Isam). So they could be used as a starting point if you have anything for either of those? I tend to picture Lan as looking like a younger and more built version of Ken Watanabe's character in The Last Samurai, but that's just headcanon.

    For Perrin, being a blacksmith, you'll want to have huge, broad shoulders and very muscular arms as a starting point.


    I appreciate this probably isn't particularly helpful, tho.

  2. The thing that would count against Rand being the Creator for me (other than the fact I personally don't feel it would be narratively satisfying) is that the Creator speaks to him a couple of times.


    Oh, I guess you could go down the God/Jesus thing where they're the same but not the same, so to speak, but I think it's better that Rand is simply the Creator's Champion rather than the Creator Incarnate.

  3. I always felt that Fain had a sort of "Gollum" style ending in store, but with a twist.


    Bear with me here, but play along:


    Rand has the Dark One contained, using the three-powered 'fist' to hold him, but he's crippled with indecision. He knows he can't kill him, or the Twisted Victory happens, he thinks just resealing him will not be enough, and certainly can't let him go. Is he to be trapped there forever, holding the Dark One at bay but never able to 'win'? Is hope fading?


    He doesn't know what to do. He's stuck. But then, seemingly from nowhere, and fulfilling the original "desire" of Ardhol/SL to fight the Shadow, Mashadar/Fain (or whatever it decides to be called at that point) surges past him and strikes at the Dark One himself, landing a killing blow. Screaming about how al'Thor belongs to him. Getting Fain his revenge at the tortures the Dark One put him through, etc.


    Rand is horrified. The Dark One is dead, there is nothing now to create the contrast that allows people to *choose* to be good, rather than be forced to it. But wait, just as nature abhors a vacuum, the Pattern demands and needs a Dark One, and at that moment, Fain is sucked into the Dark One's prison as a substitute, and Rand then reforges the prison to contain him for all time.


    So Fain's huge build has a resolution, Rand gets to die/live as before, the day is won, and Fain is eliminated in (imho) a more satisfying manner than Mat simply stabbing him with the dagger.


    Ok, call me names now. :D

  4. How about best one-liners...


    ToM Chptr 7


    When Byar is talking to Galad about the Two Rivers and Perrin raising an army of farmers. That they shouldn't be dismissed, that some of them are skilled in thr staff or the bow.


    "I am well aware." Galad said flatly


    It's got to be:


    “Once he had a grove of oaks chopped down because they were looking at him. And then insisted that they would be given decent funerals; he gave the orations. Do you have any idea how longs it takes to dig graves for twenty-three oak trees?”


    That had me howling with laughter first time I read it.

  5. i always thought of it like a gun that fires something from it, buit it may not have been a traditional gun shape, perhaps more like a pole with some sort of squeeze trigger along it, (hence the lance name) I always thought of it firing like a lightning bolt sort of thing.


    Yeah, I always pictured it as being like a projectile cattle-prod, so to speak.

  6. Simple enough question - what's your favourite moment in the books? The bit you get all happy about when it's coming up in your re-reads?


    Mine is the Quarterstaff v Swords fight with Mat, Gawain and Galad. I loved the way he, a weak and far from hearty farmboy, gave the two smug kids an absolute spanking.


    Every time I read it I want to jump up and down with glee for him.



  7. It wouldnt be a big stretch to assume elephants are in Shara as well and carhien had a very lucrative trade route with them until the tree incident.


    Does the animal-trainer Seanchan who travels with Luca's show for a while not pretend her 'Boar Horses' come from Shara at some point, too?

  8. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Cadsuane yet, to be honest.


    Her reasons aren't entirely clear and she seems exactly the type to have other motivations (although I'm not thinking DF in her case).


    Dylin and Alanna are both great shouts, too.


    For another one, how about the King of Murandy? He's been suspiciously quiet since using the BotRH to cement his throne.

  9. theres nothing remotely verbal about it.


    Not necessarily.


    Potential example: Aes Sedai disguises herself using MOM as an important Lord/Lady and gives someone instruction. She is pretending to be said Lord/Lady and ergo lying, even if the instruction itself is not a 'lie' per say, but simply a request or command - as the recipient of her instruction will interpret it as having come from the Lady, which is, of course, not the case, it is a falsehood.


    So how do you reconcile that with the fact that Aes Sedai disguise themselves without the Mirror of Mists? They go by different names, etc, and thus clearly deceive those who visit them. Yet this doesn't break the oaths.


    I think a combination of keeping it vague "I will allow you to call me Billy-Bob" isn't saying "My name is Billy-Bob" technically. Presumably also when they need a straight lie told about who they are, or their purpose, they get their Warder to do it on their behalf.


    The Oaths and their treatment in the books are a little fuzzy at times anyway. As someone else said on the thread, exaggeration could be seen as speaking words which are not true. They also use whips of Air to punish, which to me skirts dangerously close to using the OP as a weapon...

  10. theres nothing remotely verbal about it.


    Not necessarily.


    Potential example: Aes Sedai disguises herself using MOM as an important Lord/Lady and gives someone instruction. She is pretending to be said Lord/Lady and ergo lying, even if the instruction itself is not a 'lie' per say, but simply a request or command - as the recipient of her instruction will interpret it as having come from the Lady, which is, of course, not the case, it is a falsehood.

  11. Well its not speaking.. so they aren't breaking the oath.


    But my point is that writing something down that isn't true isn't speaking either, but that's prevented by the Oath.


    It's a matter of perspective. If she sees it as breaking of the oaths, then she can't do it.


    If the Aes Sedai were to realize that "wait, the Oath doesnt say not to write a word that is lie! " then she could write lies.


    See, that's the sort of answer I was looking for - and you're probably right. It's like the thing about how they can tell untruths if they believe them to be true and makes a lot of sense.

  12. Just wondering this today in an idle moment, thinking about how the Oath says: "To speak no word that is not true."


    Yet we've been told before that Aes Sedai can't write lies anymore than they can speak them - even though writing is not actually specified in the Oath.


    Following this logic, isn't using the Mirror of Mists - a weave which is bascially one big visual lie - contradictory to the Oaths? In spirit, I'd say certainly.


    Just trying to get a fun debate going :wink:

  13. Welcome to DM!


    If you could kill any one character from the books, who would it be? (don't worry about changing the story)


    Hahah, nice question.


    Hard to say for sure - there are a few candidates, and also different reasons.


    So, two choices:


    Because I really don't like them and they annoy the heck out of me choice: Bleric and Fen. As warders they were utterly useless at rescuing their AS from Seanchan leashes and they treat the one they should be bending over backward to thank like dirt.


    Because I think it would be a great moment in the story itself choice: Tam. On seeing Rand struggling, maybe being overcome by Fain or the like, Tam hurls himself into a suicidal attack designed to buy Rand enough time to recover/get away, etc. Big, epic, heart-wrenching noble sacrifice (a bit like Thom and the Whitebridge Myrdraal, except fatal) and a focal point for the characters to rally around.

  14. Disagree.


    I would like to see why people think it is not the DO's MO. What is not DO about this?


    "IT IS NOT HERE."- in response to Rand literally calling out the DO and demanding they have it out


    "ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" whereupon the DO, if it is him, directs Rand to the Chosen One- who isn't Rand, but Moridin. Remember, the Forsaken are "the Chosen" to the DO.


    If HERE is at or near Shayol Ghul- say in Moridin's fire-room, which may be in a vacuole attached "near" Shayol Ghul, or in TAR, or at SG- then Rand, in his first flush of power as the Dragon, is calling out the DO for TG- and the DO tells him "Look, if you want to start it now, that's fine- my Nae'blis is responsible for making sure the conditions are met. He's in this room, pop in and start swinging if you think you're ready."


    Ishy has spent thousands of pages trying to make sure the Last Battle happens when it's advantageous for the Shadow, and that Rand is in the "right" frame of mind. The Prophecies are partially to guide Rand. But with the Shadow in play, the Wheel can't predict everything, and the Prophecies can fail. To me, that means that the trigger conditions for the LB can be met at nearly any time- it's making sure they're met at the right time that's the issue.


    Late night side-thought: If the Champion of Light has fallen before, then Moridin may be the original Dragon. Hence being Chosen.


    Alternately, "Chosen to rule the world forever" may be a very sloppy rendition of "Chosen to rule the world until the end of time"- in like, five minutes.


    See, for me the "IF HE WILL" immediately rules out the Dark One.


    He's not the sort of entity to allow for choice in those who follow him. MY CHAMPION WILL DESTROY YOU would have been more his métier, surely?

  15. Hi and welcome to DM, 13! :)


    OMG. Thom is so Cacophonix! I don't have that kind of mental pictures, (so far at least :), but those sure are fun to watch :)



    Who is your least favorite WoT character? (if you have one :P)

    Who's your fave Forsaken?


    Feel free to ask if you've got any questions about DM!


    I hope you will like it here! biggrin.gif


    Owch, tough question - favourite character in the series? The easy answer would be Mat, but I think that's too easy - you're supposed to love the main heroes, after all. So, leaving aside the main characters, I'd probably go for Noal - I love the fact that there's a huge gap between who he was and who he is, and we're left to imagine and fill in the blanks ourselves. Everything about him - the broken knuckles, the way he wins people over effortlessly, but above all, that mystery. What happened to make him who he is and to bring him down so far. Compelling.


    Fave Forsaken - I'm going to cheat here and ask if I can have Shadar Haran instead. He's delightfully dark and evil without even the tiniest spark of humanity. It makes him heaps of fun!



  16. I too believe that RJ had things masterfully worked out as far as careful detail, and yes, there have been a few changes in the first books especially dealing with channeling (healing I think it was), but this might or might not be influence from a publisher who wanted things more vivid. Some have argued how could Rand (and Nyneave) have been channeling and not known what hew as doing when embracing the source it such a violent struggle with all the sweetness and filth, but I think RJ smoothed this out further with the visions that Avi had of children who could channel without first connecting to the source. It's a good and believable reason I think and probably not planned as providing additional proof. It is downright scary how well planned out (exception being to length but I'm not complaining) that RJ had as to foreshadowing, Min's visions, fortellings, and dreams for the entire course of the story.


    My thoughts on the bit in bold:


    For a woman to be channelling takes surrender, not struggle. It's probably no co-incidence that Nynaeve's innate talents came to the fore at times where she'd all but given up on her patients - she was probably surrendering to the inevitable without even realising it.


    As for Rand, maybe he wasn't channelling at all. For instance, the fact Bela was able to keep up with the other horses and stay fresh - he might not have been channelling, but rather bending the pattern to his will (as we saw in Darth Rand's confrontation with Cadsuane where he told her he could stop her heart just by willing it) - his sheer desire for Egwene to keep with them, coupled with his Ta'veren nature. Therefore, the struggle to hold the Source didn't apply.


    Oh, in terms of Avi's visions - it wasn't so much that they could channel without first touching it, more that they just never ever let it go.

  17. If you want an actual nod to vampires on WOT, look at the draghkar.


    Actually, I always thought the Myrdraal had quite a few traits of vampires as well.


    Only if you associate the pale skin only with vmapires. That is the only thing even remotely vampire like about them.


    I would disagree with that, but it all depends on which vampire lore you use.


    For example, their linking with Trollocs - vampires are often said to be able to directly control lesser evil creatures.


    Also their look causing fear and their weakness in sunlight. You could also compare their ability to travel via shadows to be akin to turning into mist, etc.


    I'm not saying they are vampires, of course, but saying the only trait they have is pale skin doesn't ring true.

  18. As a bookend to the entire struggle, do you think the Creator will pop up and give us a wee victory speech of some sort?


    I'm thinking a God-about-Jesus style "THIS IS MY CHAMPION AND I AM WELL PLEASED" sort of thing.


    Or has the fact He spoke at all in EotW been a bit Retconned?


    Some people still try to deny that was the Creator in tEotW. I don't prescribe to that as it just happens to speak exactly RJ's thoughts that the Creator has on the matter. To me it was an early bookism before things were fully fleshed out. Don't believe we will be seeing it again.


    Who on earth do they claim it is, if not the Creator? The Spirit of Bela or something? :bela:

  19. Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.


    I don't think that's the case for a couple of reasons:


    1) I'm sure there's a line somewhere that states no man/person can be so deep in the shadow that they can't be turned to the light. Might have been mentioned more than once.


    2) If Logain's been turned by force (seeing as he's missing, presumed Taimed, at the moment) then he'll need to be capable of being turned back in order to achieve the glory Min spoke of, surely?


    Possible maybe but very unlikely...


    Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?


    Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.


    As for Logain I don't think all that many people believe he has been turned.



    Hmm, I wonder what happens if a turned channeller is stilled. Does it break the connection/control and let them revert?


    I bet if anyone can do it, Nynaeve can :nynaeve:

  20. OMG now THAT'S who Thom has always reminded me of! LMAO! Man, I absolutely LOVE the Asterix comics, but I never connected it *grins*


    The weird mental pic for me is Lan - that one French rugby player (Sebastien Chabal) is exactly how I picture him. *Goes to hunt down a pic*




    It's the whiskers. I think for those of us of a certain vintage, Whiskers + Bard = Cacophonix. :)


    I always picture Lan as looking like he's walked straight out of a Kurosawa movie. Yojimbo, if memory serves... *goes to check*






    (You can just about see Nynaeve in the background there... ;) )


    I can see where you're coming from tho. The rugby dude is more like a young version of my in-head Bashere, actually!

  21. As a bookend to the entire struggle, do you think the Creator will pop up and give us a wee victory speech of some sort?


    I'm thinking a God-about-Jesus style "THIS IS MY CHAMPION AND I AM WELL PLEASED" sort of thing.


    Or has the fact He spoke at all in EotW been a bit Retconned?

  22. No, Faile is second in the line of succession, she said so herself to Elayne in ToM. Her father is currently the heir of Tenobia.


    Morgase didn't have to die for Elayne to become Queen.


    Bashere may decide he doesn't want to be king. Not everyone in the series is power-hungry (we've seen Ituralde turn down the chance to be king, remember) - perhaps Bashere will see it as better for Saldea in the long run to have a younger ruler, especially one with close ties to the Dragon (if he lives).

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