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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

khutch8

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  1. My thoughts on Demandred (Prologue Spoilers Ahead) (PS I haven't reread the books since ToM came out, so, if there is anything I say that is impossible due to something in the books, do let me know). We know Demandred likes to use proxies. We know Demandred and Taim both issued orders to kill Rand roughly the same time. Both don't like to smile. I'm not 100% sure, but, I think they have similar features too. Robert Jordan seemed amused at times that people thought Taim was Demandred - could this amusement be because he is/isn't at the same time? In the AMoL prologue, Demandred and Taim seem to know each other, at least by sight. Both used the phrase "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" It seems a little strange/pointless for Taim to be raised to "Forsaken level" in the prologue. He is going to end up fighting someone, and likely dying in AMoL - and I highly doubt him randomly exclaiming in the middle of a fight "hahahaaha I'm one of the Chosen" - it seems strange and kinda pointless for any of the light siders to find out this information (ie. He would still wind up in a battle with someone (likely Rand or Logain), whether he was one of the Forsaken or just a Darkfriend)...UNLESS...Taim is one of Demandred's proxies (note ONE OF - I believe he has multiple, as we are told "Demandred always liked to use PROXIES (plural)), and him dying might give Demandred the element of surprise (kinda like Graendal would have had if she hadn't screwed up royally with Perrin (I guess she still kinda does...but that's not the point), if people think he is dead (mistaking Taim for Demandred). The only problem with this theory is that we as readers would know, as RJ has told us time and time again that Demandred is not Taim - so, it wouldn't be surprising to us if Demandred reappeared after being presumed "dead" (but neither would have Graendal had she done something useful), but a big surprise to the characters. The other question that goes with this theory is - if the theory is true - does Moridin know? a) perhaps Moridin is unaware that Taim is one of Demandred's proxies, and thinks he is just some powerful channeler who is dark and has served well. Demandred could be using this to gain an element of surprise on Rand AND Moridin - possibly to wipe them both out and become Na'eblis, since they wouldn't be expecting it. b) Maybe Moridin knows, and it is some plot between him and Demandred to trick Rand.
  2. I think, from having read many of the threads containing criticism over the last few years, that the fans who are complaining about all of the criticisms, are getting fed up that people are criticising Brandon's work every time something is released, and doing so about every little thing. Criticism is valid - it is the way in which readers interact with the text on a personal level. However, I do think that there are objective and subjective criticisms, and what is ticking people off is that there are some people who present both of these types of criticism as gospel. In my opinion, a very good way of evaluating criticisms made in these last three books would be to think about the criticism you are about to point out, and decide that if Robert Jordan had written the exact same thing in the exact same way, would you have voiced the criticism. For example: Nynaeve being able to travel near to the Black Tower is an example of a likely objective error, as none of the Sisters or Ashaman there can travel because of the dreamspike - so yes, an error. This is perfectly valid criticism, and had RJ written it, someone would probably have pointed it out to him (and he probably would have had a reason for it). Another example: I have come across people complaining about aspects of the writing, such as, Aviehdha calling Rand simply that, and not using his last name, or, an extra sentence in a paragraph that someone felt was unnecessary. These, to me, are subjective criticisms, especially the extra sentence. Had Robert Jordan written the exact same thing, I highly doubt that anyone would make such comments, but, because it wasn't Robert Jordan, and there is a ton of Brandon criticism happening, it seems that people almost jump on the bandwagon, and feel it is ok to pick out little details like this and present it as "Brandon doesn't care," or "Brandon just washed his hands of it." Character tone and voicing is a bit of a grey area, since we can assume RJ would have the character tone stay the same had he written them. Pointing out that there are tonnes of typos (as in ToM), should not be placed at Brandon's feet, as, the timeline was (as far as I know) not completely his call, and, editors are responsible for picking these things out. It wouldn't surprise me if Brandon had wanted to wash his hands of the series - after having worked on this for four years, and, after seeming to be very concerned about the reception and getting it right for the fans, to have them turn on him like rabid wolves and point out many nitpicky details, that should not be detrimental to the enjoyment of the novels - I certinainly could sympathise with it. And really, I think that's what it comes down to - a gaping plot hole could cause someone to not enjoy a book, but "there's an extra sentence!" or "there's so many typos" or "this character sounds a bit off" - none of this should really stop you from enjoying the book - and if it does, perhaps you had better find something else to do. Fantasy novels are for enjoyment. Most novels in fact, are written because the author has something to say or a story to tell that he wants other people to enjoy. They are not works of art that are meant to be hung on a wall and admired because the technique is great. Very few people sit at home and think "I'm looking forward to the next Wheel of Time book because I want to see some great writing technique."
  3. I'd like to point out that there is going to a full-length motion picture of the musical version of Les Miserables. It has a release date of Dec. 7th - they have yet to start filming. There is something not quite right when a 2.5 hour movie (if its similar to the musical) can be produced in less time than it takes to edit a book. I understand that Harriet wants to make this the best book possible, but editing should not take a year (Brandon has said that the second draft will be completed within a week or so, and that Harriet has already received portions of the book). I also find it laughable when people say that getting the book ready quickly would be "alot of hard work," and "last time it gave everyone a headache." Maybe it did - it's called a job - everyone's job is hard work and gives them headaches on occasion - but no one else delays doing their job to make it easier. I'm in university right now, and I don't think saying to a prof. "well that last assignment was really hard, so, you should give me an extra year to do the next one" would go over very well. The point is, it should not take a year to edit a book.
  4. This smells of yet more marketing ploy - "Over the next few seasons, Tor will continue to release new Wheel of Time material, including trade paperback editions of the early novels with new art, new graphic novel editions of the The Eye of the World comics..." TOR (and since Brandon said it was Harriet's call on the date, her as well) seem to want to milk this last book for all it is worth, which is completely despicable behaviour. I understand that she wants to make the book right by RJ, and have no problem with that, but it should not take AN ENTIRE YEAR to edit and produce a book (especially since Brandon has already said he has sent parts off to her already). I am thoroughly disgusted with this marketing ploy. The book should be ready for publication by October - how many fans of the series will pass away in the three months between and be deprived of knowing the ending - all because of greed.
  5. The thing is - TOR IS going to make money on this book - I'm assuming it will have a similar amount of hype that "A Dance With Dragons" had this summer - and it stayed on the NY Times bestseller list for an extended period of time. It doesn't matter when the book is released - WoT fans will be lining up out the door for it on Day 1, be it Christmas, New Year, Random Local Holiday #2 etc. And I'm not convinced waiting until November is the greatest idea anyways - November seems to be both the Stephen King month for a new book, as well as the James Patterson month for a new Cross book - both of these authors consistantly hit the bestseller list, and will definitely give AMoL a run for its money (especially since next years SK book is looking likely to be a sequel to The Shining). Furthermore, by cutting AMoL (original) into three books, TOR has already tripled their profit. Now, yes, it was necessary to divide the book. They could have likely done it in two volumes though (again, DWD was about 425 000 words I believe - it was publishable - so it would likely have been very possible to publish the original last volume in two volumes (GS was 303 000 words, ToM was 326 000 and AMoL is going to be around the same as those two - likely altogether they'll be 940 000 words - two volumes of 470 000 words - I'm sure adding an aditional 45 000 words (less than the length of Stephen King's "The Gunslinger") to a book would not pose undue hardship (nevermind the arguement of "the stores don't like big books on their shelves - its the Wheel of Time - they're not going to abstain from ordering any in because it's big))). I think that after waiting so many years that, yes, the fans are entitled to a resolution As Soon As Possible, and while TOR is entitled to (and expected to) make profit on these books, I think withholding it for any length of time after it is ready is really saying that making the last extra couple of bucks is more important to them than the loyalty displayed by hundreds of thousands of fans over the past twenty years.
  6. I think, and this is from my own perspective, that what fans don't want is for the publisher to hold off publishing the book for marketing reasons. I've written a (rather extensive) post about this, but basically, Brandon Said on his Twitter account that: "However, realistically, I doubt Tor will pass up the holiday season for the last WoT book. Or at least the summer season. Werthead While they COULD pick spring, it wouldn't make much sense marketing wise, and I think Harriet wants a good six months to edit." I think this is what has caused some dissention. The fact that marketing even is a consideration for the final Wheel of Time book. To quote myself: I graduate from University in the late Spring, and if AMoL came out on the day of my graduation, I would still pick it up that morning, and likely be reading it during the ceremony. I think this is probably the sentiments of most WoT fans. I don't think there is an "optimum time" for release in that regard. It should be released when it's done. I want them to take the time to make a great, polished book, no doubt about that, and I support Harriet and Brandon and Team Jordan wholeheartedly in that regard. However, for the publisher to essentially withhold the book for marketing reasons, knowing that we have been (not intentionally - not meant as an inflammatory comment) strung along for this last book, is essentially a slap in the face to fans.
  7. I just want to clarify (and this may get a little long): those of us that feel frustrated (at least me, but it sounds like others aswell) are frustrated not at Team Jordan, nor Brandon. I think they are doing a wonderful job, and Brandon is generally very open with fans about the writing process, which is great. If team Jordan wants 6 months, or 8 months, or a year to edit, that is not a problem either. What the problem is, is specifically that because Brandon has been so open, we have been told: 1)goal for finished first draft is Nov. 8th, 2) Harriet wants more time (about 6 months) to edit. Now, assuming this, this brings us to around April, but, lets be even more liberal and say by June editing and polishing and what-have-you is done. They need to then print and distribute the book. This should not take long, since Bantam was able to print and distribut "A Dance With Dragons" in between April 29th and July 12th - less than 2 months really. This takes us to August, which, I think, is when it should come out - as soon as they can manage. If the publishers decide to hold it for marketing reasons (supposed more sales due to holidays), this is, quite literally, a slap in the face to each and every fan of the series. We were told one book, then three (one per year), then the last one was going to get pushed back a few months (not a problem, Brandon needs down time), and now, we may have to wait, AGAIN, not for artistic reasons, not to make the book better, but because the publisher (who has already delayed and delayed, and has gotten three times their money's worth from the "last book") wants to market it more. This is saying that this book is for the money, not for us, the fans. I wholeheartedly support team Jordan, and Brandon, and want them to make it an amazing book. There is no conflict in my mind about that. But, the fans deserve this book when it is ready, not when the publisher can (potentially, though see my previous post about why I think it is unlikely)release it to better sales.
  8. I agree with above. It isn't right that, after so many years and delays (not intentional) that the book be delayed even further for "marketing reasons" (aka we want to potentially make more money). This book is going to sell well no matter when they release it - anyone who is going to purchase it is going to to so ASAP, regardless of whether it's released near Christmas, Family Day, Spring Break, or any other holiday (I graduate from University in the Spring, and if it came out the day of my graduation, I'd still go out, buy it, and be reading it during the ceremony!). If Brandon is done the first draft by November, and Harriet wants 6 months to edit/proofread/polish, then it should be out in the summer at the very latest, and late Spring at the earliest. I don't know if there's any way to voice such concerns (ie. contact him without sounding like a whiny obsessed fan) to Brandon or not (as I doubt he has much power to sway the publishing company), but someone should try.
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