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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

HeronMarkedSoul

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  1. You mean it has a purpose other than just being completely badass?
  2. I have to agree as I thought the exact same thing.
  3. Hey thanks for that, it's all new info to me.
  4. Ok so how does a Warder get his cloak? Is there a master cloak maker somewhere who makes these things? How does he qualify for the cloak anyway? Maybe once he is bonded and considered an official Warder he has permission to wear one. Possibly his AS puts in a request somewhere for a cloak for her Warder. I would think with all of the Warders going down in the novels you'd have those who would take the cloak off of the corpse and use it for their own ends. I am also wondering why someone doesn't make a whole set of clothes with the color shifting material? You'd be almost invisible with the hood up, just a face floating around. Insignificant things like this come to me sometimes out of nowhere, please forgive me.
  5. Oh come now, let's not go too overboard with this. This is a completely different culture, albeit fictional. Keep in mind that everything that happened to Mat he believed had something to do with his being Ta'veren. So he was letting things take their course. I liked Tylin and if there was any malice or evil within her Mat would have sensed it and acted accordingly. I certainly disagree with you about being happy that the Gholam murdered her. She was just a misguided woman used to getting her own way. Personally I felt the whole Perrin/Berelain thing was much more egregious. There was a woman who wouldn't leave a married man alone after he said no ad nauseum. She spread rumors and did all kinds of crap including inciting his wife and talking smack to her. She did that stuff even while Faile was a prisoner. I like a strong-willed woman so I actually loved both of these characters, Berelain especially. Remember we're talking about farmboys who just left the farm, if they were grown men with some experience with women, much of this would have been headed off at the pass.
  6. mat couldnt have done that due to tylin being a queen and him not having found the bowl yet. in some cases people who have been captured and raped or other violent crimes come to 'love' their capture, kind of making it the best scenario type thing, I think that is what happened Was it really that bad? I mean, developing Stockholm Syndrome. I´ve just read those passages and he can walk almost everywhere he wants. Tylin shows up now and then so he remembers her and all the servants know. But he could leave- if it wasn´t ta´veren stuff I guess... When Tylin threathened him with the marriage knife he could have tried to do something. Frankly I don´t buy it... what I mean buy that is it doesn´t seem to make any sense if it was that bad. Even Morgase tried to fight Rahvin, even though her situation was more hopeless. HeronMarked Soul: Is their upbringing about woman so ingrained in them that they would tolerate anything? That is foolish. I know Rand was that way but Mat struck me as more sensible. I mean if it was all bad, he was raped, and abused wouldn´t he knock her down or atleast try to do something, queen or no queen? Would he really defer to her? And if he did it because he had too, wouldn´t there be some post trauma? Toveine obeying straight away seems like compulsion. Indeed she was lucky that honorable Logain caught her. It could have been much worse. Hah, were I in the situation I'm sure I'd find a way to get her off of me without having to deck her or hurt her in any way. You can restrain or do a lot of things. Of course I like the way Tylin rolls so I doubt I would be kicking her out of bed regardless. As far as the ethics of hitting women in the novels, I do think there were occasions where one of the guys would go too far with it. I can assure you if a woman was trying to kill me or hurt me seriously I would do whatever is necessary. In fact, Rand in particular went waaay too far with it with a certain Forsaken. But I can completely relate to Mr. Jordan's views on this subject since I would certainly never take actual offensive action unless it was life or limb.
  7. I guess what they were intending and what manifested are 2 different things. As we have seen through various bonded characters, there is no hint of compulsion or loss of free will. Toveine running through the streets till she stumbled, and following every command to the letter even if she wasn't consciously aware of it is in fact compulsion. Luckily it is the honorable Logain that she serves. This might be Mazrim Taim's version of the Warder bond. As far as the Matt/Tylin interactions, I remember thinking the same thing when I read it...If the genders were reversed I wonder what the thinking would be. Personally, I loved the whole thing and regardless of Matt's whining he enjoyed himself I'm sure. I don't think their respective sizes matter since the lads from the Two Rivers are good men and would never hit a woman, even if she was Ogier sized.
  8. My first impulse was green but upon further review I think I would go blue.
  9. Heh...maybe I'm weird but I wouldn't want to do this to my wife. Free will is much more appealing. I also think that it would change their personality. If I wanted an automaton then maybe I'd be into it, but I generally like my women to want me because of me, not because of something that I could do that they have no control over. Not that I don't see potential uses for this weave (muahahahaha!), just not on the woman I am spending my life with.
  10. Not sure why every time someone who is in the "AS are weak" camp discusses any AS victory they have to mention either; A: That the AS were using an angreal of some sort. I say so what? Even the Forsaken use them and do you expect them to be of equal power to a Forsaken? Nynaeve and Alivia are the exception to the rule, not the norm as far as power levels. Also, and I keep feeling the need to beat this to death, but we are talking about ancient beings with the knowledge of every weave/dirty trick ever known to man. It's like a guy who trains with the National Guard a weekend a month, but has never seen action going against a 20 year Navy SEAL vet... B: It is also always mentioned that they linked. Again, should they not have? In a fight for your life (or the life of the world as you know it) aren't you going to use every thing available? They had no idea what was going to hit them and they were preparing. Like the old saying goes (usually about guns); It's better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.
  11. You see me trying to take up the AS cause here, so I'm with you in theory. But there is no way on Earth a Warder is that strong, not even close. First off the physics of one man fighting many doesn't work, even if he was as strong as you assume, once you get hemmed in by bodies you are dead meat. Second, if you recall Lan in NS (pre-bonding) killed 6 men who took him to the pinnacle of what he was capable of. I think of Lan as the paragon of what a Warder can be. So in essence after bonding is he worth 12-15 men? Maybe, if he has room to move, no one is using ranged weapons or channeling, and he has his AS there to heal him after (or during). Finally, Warders like everyone else have their levels of effectiveness due to age, training, and experience. So there are many variables, but when all is said and done (and I hate to say this) a pimply faced kid training at the BT for a few months could kill even the hardest Warder in a heartbeat.
  12. IIRC (not having the books at hand) Rand mentioned the Deathgates, after which Logain asked him whether he was intending to teach the weaves only to a select few, the way Taim had been doing in the BT. As for Taim vs Logain or Rand, I'd quite appreciate it if Logain got to deal with Taim. It would be a nice ending to a very underplayed rivalry. I can't claim to recall the scene exactly, but I believe Rand told him they were called Deathgates. I don't remember him explaining what the names of the Fire Blossoms were though. He may have been mumbling out loud and could have said the names of the weaves since Lews Therin was essentially running the show during that battle. Logain saw and copied the weaves although his versions were smaller. My memory could be faulty on this, I'm not sure. I have to say that Logain is one of my favorite characters, even though he hasn't gotten much time on center stage. I just related to him for some reason and I like the way he goes about his business. I also feel he is an honorable man. A big BT battle with the forces of Logain going against Taim and co. would be fantastic. I don't see how this would occur if Rand doesn't give him permission or asks him to go though.
  13. They managed to keep the Forsaken from attacking Rand and Nynaeve, which was the important part, but it wasn't what I would call a success considering everyone except Alivia was fighting three against one. Verin (Brown, lead), Kumira (Brown), Sea Folk woman vs Graendal = Kumira dead. Daigian (White, lead), Beldeine (Green), Eben vs Aran'gar = Eben dead, Beldeine injured. Damer (lead), Corele (Yellow), Sarene (White) vs Demandred = Sarene almost died. Elza (Green, lead), Merise (Green), Narishma with Callandor vs Osan'gar = Osan'gar dead after Elza spotted him hiding. Alivia vs Cyndane = Alivia injured. The only circle that managed to kill a Forsaken was the Callandor one after Elza caught a glimpse of Osan'gar hiding behind a tree; there wasn't even any fight. And the only circle that actually fought a Forsaken without suffering any fatalities was the one led by an Asha'man. To me it was a success. I guess it depends on how many people you think are equal to one Forsaken. IMHO that number would be many since we are talking about beings that are thousands of years old, battle tested, knowledge of weaves/practices, etc. fighting against what could almost be considered children in comparison. The fact that they could hang with them at all in only circles of 3 is almost astounding. Most of those present went from no combat experience to lightning hitting Cadsuane's shield from a Forsaken and then it was an explosive combat zone. I'd say they performed impressively.
  14. I feel like the majority of the time when the AS engage they throw down as hard as anyone. Keep in mind how many of them have actually seen battle and/or had to use the one power as a weapon. As far as the Greens, aside from the example you provided I can't recall the Greens ever doing anything that would give me pause as to their battle readiness. I thought of 2 examples right off the bat of the Greens being in the thick of it; The Battle near Shadar Logoth when Rand & Nynaeve were cleansing. There were 4 greens there I believe, led by Cadsuane. These women were kicking ass and taking names...not just against random darkfriends, but the Forsaken themselves. Recall Kiruna at Dumai's Wells, she was not what I'd call hesitant or shy wreaking destruction. Mr. Jordan's description from Perrin's PoV; "A moment later he saw Kiruna, face serenely unconcerned, striding like a queen of battles along a path carved for her by three Warders and the fires that leaped from her own hands."
  15. After reading some of these incredibly deep theories in different threads one has to wonder what the Forsaken et al are fighting for. If everything becomes nothingness when the DO 'wins' and no one is reborn, then who will they be ruling over? What good would it be to be Nae'blis? That's great that they will have absolute power, but over whom? If existence doesn't wink right out then they will rule over anyone left alive after the the dark's minions scourge the world, and then no one will be reborn. Doesn't seem like much to shoot for if you ask me. Seems like it would be much more fun (for lack of a better word) for them having a world full of people they can dominate, with occasional intrigues and battles over the years when ta'veren are born. Not sure what their motivation is to fight for the DO...
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