...and kicking ass.

ok... in all fairness maybe I should acknowledge, someone DID try to explain to me that by taking an additional week to go back through and fix all the typos, the company loses millions in profit. I just don't know if I buy that though

this thing was a comedy of errors. I don't believe I've ever seen the like. its as though only the first 100 pages were edited AT ALL. like someone said "that'll be enough to sneak it past the boss, the hell with the rest of the book!" I mean is this like a tradition with fantasy books? let the fans do the editing, AFTER its released? it'll make them feel special and besides, they'll work pro bono? saves us the money / time of paying the real editors / proofreaders to do it the right way and release it to fans error free? were these errors inserted intentionally as some kind of like...promotional fan club thing? whoever finds the most errors wins an autographed poster, we put in 100, ready go! its some kind of game to them? seems to me like someone at corporate is thinking a little too hard with their calculator and not enough with their greater brain, scheming up ways to further cut costs by taking it directly out of the quality of the product itself. either that or they just don't give two ^%#&* about WoT. I mean is it REALLY that costly for a multi-million dollar company to edit its book before release? (I acknowledge I don't really know how the process works, that's why I'm asking.) maybe I'm being too melodramatic or something but.....I don't like this. in addition to the great many listed in this 12-page long thread...I have an additional THIRTY. here are half of them

definitely typos

p. 107 Light! Gawyn thought as Chubain shot him a hostile GLACE.

p. 284 Was Elayne afraid of him, or WAS SHE WAS honoring him?

p. 344 Bloody stories. They were SUPPOSED LEAVE Mat alone.

p. 364 She'd wait for Elayne to walk over and sit IN ONE THE SEATS near her, or perhaps send a servant with an offer.

p. 404 "Burn him. He left us. I-" He cut off AS SAW RAND.

p. 409 "Not ridiculous," Rand said, LAYING HIS HAND IRALIN'S shoulder.

p. 439 A HUNDRED OF PACES away, he looked back and confirmed his suspicions.

p. 461 "The channelers say they are working as hard as they can," Gaul explained, walking beside Perrin THOUGH CAMP as they checked the various sections.

p. 529 Sure enough, it turned out they did, THOUGH ONE HAD GO FOR hours to escape the effect.

p. 626 Well, there was A GRAIN A TRUTH in that, Galad had to admit.

p. 789 "The Aelfinn and the Eelfinn get around in here somehow," HIS WHISPERED.

p. 823 Light, had Moiraine grimaced before? SHE BEEN TOO high-and-mighty for that, had she not?

arguably typos (as in MAYBE the author intended for the character to misspeak...but doubtful)

p. 104 A bronze stand-lamp burned in the corner, and a circular rug NEARLY FILLED NEARLY the entire floor.

p. 124 [this was probably intentional but I think its awkward when Alliandre asks] "Is it true that you're planning on sending my people back to Jehannah after you find Gill and his group?" [and a few lines later Perrin replies] "I do," [rather than "I AM" or "it IS"]

p. 257 "And you would accept the AYMRLIN'S authority."

sad performance

is some of them deliberate or was the Editor on her holiday when the draft was aproved for print?

Who in the light edited this book.

How has nobody noticed this prior to the book's release?

Shouldn't the editing process for such a great series catch most of these?

Corrected some typos

hardly! all you have done is compromised the artistic integrity. you should be quite ashamed of yourself

The good Chemist

ee cummings

please... call me Ho or ho

it's not just HERE that I won't capitalize, it's EVERYwhere (excepting only the most formal situations like when I take over proofreading WoT). you know why, cuz it's redundant! all you need is the "." period! anything more is not only a waste of time but an exercise in gullibility. the capital and the extra space are like added safeguards for the stupid / blind / can't read. they are like having training wheels on your bike your whole life! take them off dammit, ride free! it's so much more liberating and fulfilling. not having to flex your fingers all far to hold down extra keys for no reason. don't knock it til you've tried it! only proper nouns are an exception, because it sometimes changes the meaning (ie creator or Creator, etc)

"you have to do it like this for no reason except cuz we all do"

"ok" (baah)

(that was supposed to be a sheep!) yes the craic here has been sufficient

Traditions should not be maintained just because they were traditions.

George R.R. Martin took damn near six years to do the job right

while the New Spring story is certainly connected to the main series, it isn't necessary to it.

alright I have no further comments on whether the original series of 3 was milked into either 14, or 15 books (or more) as its irrelevant. altho its starting to look like "more" as isn't there also a guidebook or something, and what did that previous poster say back there about "outriggers" planned...? the original point was how the commercial success of a thing leads to the commissioning of more crap to sell, and "OH WELL" if the quality of the subsequent crap is nowhere near that of the original crap (ie Crossroads of Twilight)

another one who won't read! not that I blame them at least when it comes to this thread. no lapenque like I said, you should accept my failures to capitalize and punctuate because they are intentional (.....and clearly indicative of an artistry / genius superior beyond the scope of any mere human comprehension. so far beyond in fact as to seem not like that at all, to the untrained eye) and also not nearly as embarrassing and glaring as the typos in WoT, which once again are painfully obviously UNintentional. I'm glad you've chosen proper punctuation etc as your way (you haven't) but to me it's a waste of time

ninja'ed! (or something)

and splitting a hair such as "the prologue is not a part of the series" = grasping at straws because it has nothing to do with your rebuked novel of speculations on why the editing process must be rushed / mistakes left in, which was supposed to be the point of the debate. now you are latching onto technicalities such as "oh, you don't capitalize" like a desperate man sliding off the edge of a cliff....lol maybe some more friends will show up to save you

there is ALWAYS enough time to get a job done RIGHT

lol many nice burns in that. yes.....you were taught that every sentence must begin with a capital letter, and so you accept and comply...whereas I question, revise and improve. (at least "improve" in my opinion! I like my writing style better). you are like an aes sedai who upholds stupid traditions such as deciding rank based on strength in the power, for better or worse simply because thats the way its always been done.

"There is something wrong with this system, Daigian," Nynaeve said absently.

 

"There you sit," she said, "knowing as much as any other Aes Sedai— knowing more than many, I'd wager—and the moment any Accepted just off apron strings gains the shawl, you have to do what she says."

the excruciating doom metal band "saint vitus" have a song called "bela" which if you pay close attention to the lyrics, is clearly about WoT

as far as references IN WoT, uh, the lord of the rings? almost everything (ok...many major things) that happen in EotW also happened in LotR ie you start in an out of the way village somewhere where life is simple and people largely petty, then "black riders" show up looking for one of the youngsters, tam = bilbo he has traveled before and is somewhat more world-wise, moiraine = gandalf, lan = aragorn (the crownless king, maybe we'll have a return-of-the-king?), even the names matrim and perrin sound like merry and pippin, shadar logoth = the mines of moria (where they are seperated from "gandalf")...and thats just what I can remember offhand. to me it seemed obvious that whole book was an homage and confirmed by the scene where rand grins at an inn named "the nine rings" and reminisces that used to be one of his favorite adventure stories as a kid.

not mentioned cuz it was too obvious?

your posts do contain a fair few errors.

you again!

the key difference (obviously) being my lack of capitalization / punctuation = 100% intentional...the WoT errors 100% unintentional. everything I write on here is exactly the way I want it to look. thus they are not "errors" (as they are not made in err) and I think you know this well. lol think of my writing style as a statement on anti-conformity / individuality (on an aesthetic level) vs. herd-mentality / doing what you're told for no reason. besides you can't compare the platforms of a message board on the internet and a major fantasy series. of course I would do it the 'proper' way for a WoT book however this isn't that so I will use my own style (the point of which is to break said rules in order to be more genuine and convey tones they simply don't allow. the subtlety and artistry of it is probably lost on you!) if I left it to you you would probably have commas in my sentences every fifth word >:| probably do away with my smileys as well

There are no other books in the series proper.

kinda sounds like you're grasping at straws from a debunked and undefendable position. are you in politics or something man. why does the fact that I'm right gall you so much. I haven't gotten this much attention in a while...it's flattering but I'm not sure I'm ready ;)

(yes, I did not use question marks on those...that's how I want them to feel)

it's nowhere as easy as you seem to think. And I must say I get quite annoyed myself when somebody who has no training or experience in an area says that they could have done it much better and faster

yes that's exactly what I'm saying...I CAN do it much better than they do, and I PROVE IT everytime I pick up a WoT book.

look, here's another doozy (ToM chapter 15 'use a pebble' page 217)

The guardsmen moved off. Nynaeve turned to Naeff, and he nodded. She turned and took a step into the affected section of town. When her foot hit the paving stone, the stone turned to dust. Her food sank through the shattered paving stone and hit packed earth.

lol that's what it says, you can google it. I particularly loved this one because I know I hate it when my food sinks into the pavement! and I wouldn't say I'd do it "faster" than them, as the current proofreaders' rushing (as per mr. ares) is probably the cause of their failure / shoddiness. I said "under one week" not "faster". I'd actually recommend they slow down and take more care, making sure to read each word rather than just skimming through rushing to make the Chritmas deadline

"why won't it read!" ~steve jobs a la south park

here's another great quote from the kinswoman alise in "partings, and a meeting":

"Egwene Sedai has spoken of letting the Kin continue, but if we do, would be we be able to work the One Power openly?" [sic]

not the author/editor's fault...I'm sure "her character" just misspoke!

that also happened again later (chapter 19 "talk of dragons" page 284)

She had sent Guybon himself to escort Mat. He was high-ranking, second-in-command of the armies. That was unexpected. Was Elayne afraid of him, or WAS SHE WAS honoring him?

google it. you see what I'm saying? if I WEREN'T BETTER than the series' current proofreaders, than how is it I'm finding all these typos they missed? how can you possibly argue that? I also have quite a few others (albeit more argueable) and I'm barely 300 pages in. first ever read-through. and I'm not even looking. yes I am much better at it than the series' current proofreaders. sorry thats so annoying for you! :P

I didn't understand how they survived all the way to the printing process.

exactly! thats all I'm sayin :)

@ cindy as you say if the job of proofreader is as boring monotonous and low paying as you all are saying, to the extent that those doing it can't care enough about it to bother doing a good job any more...that is the fault of management (as they're the ones creating the terms of the insufferable job). most likely what the workers need and deserve is better pay...shorter hours...more variety in assignment...ie whatever it takes for them to be able to care enough to get the job done RIGHT. it is the company's fault that they're too cheap and greedy to spend what it takes to fully rid the flaws from their product. (not that they're MAJOR major flaws but still.........they make me cringe). Tor (or whatever) has basically said, "despite the millions we make off this @#^& its not worth it to us spending a FEW extra minimum ass wage man-hours to rid the errors from our product, before releasing it to fans"...and that is what I dislike about the series. personally I would just put the final draft through another round or two of proofreaders (different ones...than had been at it the first time) and also maybe take the care in the first place to hire ones with a higher reading skill, which was why I volunteered myself in the first place when I originally posted on this thread. lol

ok I promise I'll shut up about it now! (unless I get a lot more flames)

Do you have any idea

uh, no offense but maybe your reading skill is not on a level with mine? I only say this because for me catching typos is EXTREMELY easy...in fact I can't NOT. it is my burden and my curse. for instance when you write things like

In once case,

or

by just to make sure

I can't help but read what you wrote as you wrote it. ordinarily I would NEVER point it out or care in the least or think less of anyone for it (especially not when its just casual internet posting)...I just don't think it belongs in a WoT book! yes I could easily catch and fix every typo in a week or less...ALL you have to do is read each word, remain focused while doing so and have good spelling. maybe thats beyond most people but proofreaders of a major series should have that.

@ cindy I am in complete agreement with you and ares. the proofreaders should be well compensated for their effort (IMO its an important-ish job they do) and given MORE than one day to accomplish their task. if I was treated like crap then yes, I too would probably poison WoT with typo after typo as an act of rebellion. the ultimate fault (as usual) lies with management. "hey there's still all these typos...ok, what's going on with the proofreader(s)?" <- how hard is that

the title of the thread is "what you dislike most about the series" well I cringe at all the typos, sorry! its a totally fixable thing for a competent company and you will never convince me otherwise

How else should RJ put it? "Nynaeve folds her arms beneath her chesticles?"

lol actually ALL you have to say is "she folded her arms" or "she crossed her arms". we KNOW where it was in relation to her breasts! you don't say "he sat down on his buttocks" or "he folded his hands near his penis" do you? I guarantee you you don't! to me it just seemed like a poor way of forcing a contrived sensuality into the writing that didn't really belong

the following choices: get the book out, accepting there will be mistakes; delay the book for months, missing Chritmas.

qué? like I said all they have to do is hire additional or more competent proofreaders (me) I could unilaterally get it done in under < one week. lol @ 'months'! what you are describing is a breakdown in management. if they can't get it done by 'Chritmas'.....then they should have started earlier, it really is that simple. again a single work week is all it would take for ONE competent proofreader to fix every typo. "oops mr. jordan we actually need it one week ahead of when we thought (we suck rather badly you see)" <- whats so hard about that. if they really cared about their product they would QC it properly before releasing it. then no one would have to go through with your proposed boycott of the series. sounds to me like the same forces are at work which caused an originally-planned eyeless 3 book series to be milked into 15 eyeless books (corporate greed). anyway I realize you have to have the last word...I'm inclined to let you

that being said I just loved reading this line in ToM today: (chapter 5 'writings' page 107) "Light! Gawyn thought as Chubain shot him a hostile GLACE."

*cringes and shoots you a hostile glace* (btw http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Glace)

fire your proofreader or give them more than a single day (lol) to proofread the book. and START EARLIER if you can't make or change your deadline. I think its kind of a stretch the notion that every year on the morning of december 24th RJ drops his typo-ridden manuscript off under the tor Chritmas tree attached with a sticky 'get everything done in under ONE DAY'

lol

The Accepted tests

ohhh yeah... good times! I don't know why I just felt the series start to lose modesty in awkward fashion

despite knowledge of the faults, you are indicating you don't care all that much.

yes

I mean I know its not a big deal and its easy to figure out what was meant...

Mouthing off on the internet

Title says it all.

don't forget you're on a thread which is entitled "What you dislike most about the series?" I didn't start it, but since its here I will speak truth. so anyways, no. releasing typos to store shelves is totally unprofessional and unnecessary. all you have to do to catch them is proofread! and I'm pretty sure they are given more than one day to do so...lol

You have a day.

can I get a babysitter to watch all my kids?

commercial success equals = more sequels, for better OR worse. two words (and a number): butterfly effect 2. if you're going to buy something just because of it's name, then someones going to sell it to you, done deal. and worry about making it (good) later.

lol @ defense of typos! sorry but there is no excuse for shoddy work. I don't care how stressed the editor(s) are. omg he has a lot of responsibilities? five kids and a night job on the side? then he has my sympathies however a job is still a job and it should still be done right. and if he can't then give that percentage of his salary to me and I will, and it will take less than a week and I will get them all, thats all I'm sayin. it's not that hard. lol @ 'don't buy it' that's your solution?

"when the sun turns green." ~rand al'thor

anyway whatever the cause I felt there was a breakdown of integrity in the series after book 3 with the addition of nudity / sexual elements that weren't there before (I'm not talking about rand scoring with aviendha, that was fine I'm talking about the hall of the tower stripping to the waste just to prove they're all women, and etc. btw I cringed so hard when that was reprised in TGS) ...as well as a decline in overall quality after book 7. yes I think we were milked for about 2 extra books, agree. that was nicely said

btw if I'm remembering wrong and there WAS cheesy nudity like that in the first 3 books by all means, let me know it's been a while since I've read them. I just seem to remember the series initially being a sight more modest, and then losing that rather awkwardly

hum ok, I stand corrected (at least about the contrived sexual elements, tho I swear they appeared late?) but there's still no excuse for so many typos making it to final versions. and if you can't see that the series was milked and elongated unnaturally in order to make more money then I say to you, your naivety is endearing :P

...you perceive omens in the behavior of birds

I dreamed the other night I was about to steal this car, cuz I was too impatient for someone to show up and give me a ride...then I realized that would be bogus and just waited

and a night or so before that I dreamed I accidently cleaned an entire plate of free ice cream samples (i was really hungry!) and then when i tried to order some the shop demanded I pay like $58 for it. I got really mad and ended up slamming down like $5 and change and storming out. later I was trying to justify myself to a former manager, saying free samples are supposed to be free right, and he totally agreed with me

I wonder what egwene would say

where do you learn all that (about the forsaken?). I can pretty much place most of the countries at this point. maybe murandy, ghealdan, amadicia and those down there are a little jumbled in my non photographic memory. and alivia is the only one I recall stronger than nynaeve...unless maybe some of egwene's new novices? sharina or someone?

the pronunciations have always stumped me and many I have been disappointed to learn from the audiobooks were not as I thought. probably the worst example: rhuidean. I was sure the "rhuid" was said like the word DRUID, and then I hear the guy saying "RRHOIDean" (like the -rrhoid as in hemorrhoids). I mean come on druid is a much better association than hemorrhoids

agree with all those who said repetitive descriptions, characters' lack of communication, the series being stretched out to sell more units (especially between #8-10)

and I would add the all-too-contrived elements of nudity / sexuality that seemed to appear after the first 3 books (most likely at the behest of tor, again in order to sell more units). sex and violence sells and unfortunately making money is always the bottom line, and I mean RJ originally struck me as a fairly modest author otherwise, who would have stayed away from those topics for classiness' sake if left to his own devices, and to me it just seemed like the suits / corporate stepped in and said "here's what we want" which jordan replied "(sigh) ok I'll try. 'nynaeve folded her arms beneath her breasts.....'"

(I mean its not that I don't love hearing about breasts but is it REALLY necessary to put it that way? several times per book?)

also agree with 'lack of editor' I mean...did anyone else feel like there were up to a dozen or more typos per book, at some point? even in the gathering storm I'm pretty sure I found at least four, including at one point bryne's name being spelled "byrne" and a few others, many missing words etc. 'though' instead of 'through' also happens multiple times. I mean I know its not a big deal and its easy to figure out what was meant...it just seems to me like if someone (or ones) are being PAID to catch those, and they're failing and I'm sitting in my house doing a better job of it? thats not right, right? so where does one apply to be an editor for tor? my resume will be a complete list of every typo

another example of male-female friendship: how bout lan and moiraine?