So it has been a couple days since I finished, but I think I am ready to put my two cents in. I LOVED it! So, I will go ahead and make a couple praises and complaints regarding plot. I think Eg and Taims parallel was awesome. I loved Dems need to make himself in to the messiah for Shara. On the other hand, Fain was wasted buildup. The other complaint is that Moridin could have done more. That being said, the let down of Moridin fit well.

Zen Rand was a pretty big problem for me... he's inhuman. Only a stoner or a sociopath would be as calm as he is in the face of what occurs, and when you add it to his random, unexplained new powers... its creepy.

 

And aside from creepy, him releasing Weiramon and Anaiyella is pretty monstrous... the things those two would have done as darkfriends, much less what they might do, deserved justice. I don't care if Rand got a hug from his dad for the first time in years, he has a responsibility to the world...

 

Though, that being said, I am waiting on aMoL before making my final judgement. It may be something more is going on here as the OP suggested. I frankly hope so, because if Rand is genuinely as he seems to be in TofM it would be a killing point on the series for me.

 

 

Btw I hate Rand Sedai... not because of the concept, its amusing--but it was bluntly written. A bit like Mat's 'I assumed you saidared it.' from tGS. A wink to the readers that feels forced in its portrayal in the story.

 

I think he is the opposite of inhuman. He was shown doing some very human things in ToM. Here is a small list: saving the apples, hugging his father, fixing problems that he helped cause in Arad Doman, apologizing to Hurin, and just expressing emotion in gener to those around him (other then anger).

 

How is showing mercy monstrous? No, it is not the right thing to do, but it does fit with the whole saviour thing. His responsibility to the world is to face the Dark One, not to kill every human Darkfriend. In fact, them reporting back to other Dark Friends about what they saw could reduce morale among the "Darkside."

 

Hmm, I did not feel that way about the Rand Sedai scene. I will agree on the Saidared thing though.

 

 

Here is the thing though... Those things u describe are inhuman for the simple fact that they are too perfect. People use the phrase 'what would Jesus do' for a reason, and that reason is that what Jesus would do is invariably what people do not do.

 

It does not mean people are not good or, back on topic, that I think rand should be incapable of apologizing, in fact I will make clear here that I have no problem with rand making amends, my problem is with his attitude. When apples start growing around u and bad guys can't look at u because of your inner light, u don't nod sagely or smile benignly accepting it as your right. It's not a normal human response its... What Jesus would do...

 

What is worse is that rands calmness in situations makes the extravagant excess of his sorrow ring false.

 

And I'm sorry, rands exercised political and legal authority when he freed weiramon and anaiyella. His job as champion of the light may have no requirements for this, but his claiming of those powers draw upon him responsibilities that do have nothing to do with that role.

 

If he wanted no part in their trial on that day he should have handed them over to darlin to stand trial under tairen law. In freeing them he freed criminals, and worse in sending them back to the shadow he set in motion the perpetuation of their crimes. So yes even if there is no prophecy saying be should be responsible for that he is.

I see where you are comming from and I know from following these forums that you are not a fan of the Jesus/Rand ideas, but that seems to be exactly what has happened.

Well, I agree that his reaction is not the normal human response to all the special things going on around him is not the response of a normal human. However, he is not really normal anymore. If he did not have the memories of another 400 year life time perhaps he would have probably reacted differently. It seems to me that Rand has knowledge of why he has all of these new powers so it is not a huge deal to him.

One could argue that his calmness comes from LTT experiences in life. After all, he has seen the entire world ravaged by war, sealed the Dark One, and done some pretty terrible things in maddness.

I am not arguing that him letting those two go was in any way right. In fact I think it was wrong, however it was not monsterous. On one hand, as a saviour figure, he showed mercy. On the other hand, as a political leader, he could have made the decision to put the fear of the Light into dark friends. Either way, it probably seemed like the right decision to Rand.

You are right in saying that he has political and social responsibility to the people. He took this on himself and should be held accountable for it. However, it seems like he is trying to move away from a direct hand in the worlds affairs and try to hand it back to the various peoples. I think that is the right decision, but that he is acting to soon on it. He should be holding on to his responsibity as a political leader until he formally hands it over. I am guessing that will happen at the FoM.

Zen Rand was a pretty big problem for me... he's inhuman. Only a stoner or a sociopath would be as calm as he is in the face of what occurs, and when you add it to his random, unexplained new powers... its creepy.

 

And aside from creepy, him releasing Weiramon and Anaiyella is pretty monstrous... the things those two would have done as darkfriends, much less what they might do, deserved justice. I don't care if Rand got a hug from his dad for the first time in years, he has a responsibility to the world...

 

Though, that being said, I am waiting on aMoL before making my final judgement. It may be something more is going on here as the OP suggested. I frankly hope so, because if Rand is genuinely as he seems to be in TofM it would be a killing point on the series for me.

 

 

Btw I hate Rand Sedai... not because of the concept, its amusing--but it was bluntly written. A bit like Mat's 'I assumed you saidared it.' from tGS. A wink to the readers that feels forced in its portrayal in the story.

I think he is the opposite of inhuman. He was shown doing some very human things in ToM. Here is a small list: saving the apples, hugging his father, fixing problems that he helped cause in Arad Doman, apologizing to Hurin, and just expressing emotion in gener to those around him (other then anger).

How is showing mercy monstrous? No, it is not the right thing to do, but it does fit with the whole saviour thing. His responsibility to the world is to face the Dark One, not to kill every human Darkfriend. In fact, them reporting back to other Dark Friends about what they saw could reduce morale among the "Darkside."

Hmm, I did not feel that way about the Rand Sedai scene. I will agree on the Saidared thing though.

"Zen Rand" is rather kind, I think in another thread, somebody called his transformation "12-Step Rand."

 

I think what he did in Ebou Dar was great. Trying to apologize to Hurin was over the top. Instead of waiting for an hour for them to find Hurin, he could have saved another city from starvation and cemented "Zen" status.

I think it was an important task for Rand to apologize to Hurin. Rand is being human and making amends to people he cares about. Hurin was a friend and Rand felt he needed to let him know that he was sorry. I think "Zen" Rand is kind of a poor term for him.

I have a couple of questions:

 

1. How many trollocs have appeared "on screen?" How many trollocs total can be extrapolated from this? My guess would be 1-2 million have died so far, hinting that there may be 10 million+ reserves/in-training.

 

2. Given the relatively small population of the Borderlands and the lack of food in the Blight, how can that many trollocs be fed?

Brandon indicated that they have to get food from elsewhere. Sharans probably make good food.

 

I have been wondering about this lately, too. Even if they feed on Sharans - they can not possibly feed several millions by feeding from humans. Each trolloc would need more than one human in his life too grow up, more like 20 or even a hundred. For 1 million trollocs we would need something between 20 and 100 million eaten humans. If we talk about 10 million in reserve - up to 1 billion humans eaten in a time of maybe twenty years.

 

That number just doesn't make sense at all. Especially as we know that the Shadow does not even have enough humans too create weapons for Myrdraal - which I believe is far more important than feeding trollocs.

 

There must be some other way trollocs are feed - some kind of organization dedicated to growing life stocks to feed the trollocs somewhere in the Blight.

 

There could very easily be Humans in the blight. Maybe in the form of a corrupt city or maybe kept like cattle by Myrdraal ranchers. Maybe both.

 

Where would they get the feed for their human cattle?

 

I think Lucker's explanation made the most sense. Just because the humans can't eat Blight-berries doesn't mean Shadowspan can't. A Worm might feed a thousand trollocs for weeks.

If they can raise humans they can raise other animals. I know, there are holes in that as well, just throwing it out there. Maybe there are things in the blight that would not kill humans to eat. Plus, if the Evil-Aiel from ToM could survive in the blight, I am sure there are ways for other non-shadowspawn to survive.

I have a couple of questions:

 

1. How many trollocs have appeared "on screen?" How many trollocs total can be extrapolated from this? My guess would be 1-2 million have died so far, hinting that there may be 10 million+ reserves/in-training.

 

2. Given the relatively small population of the Borderlands and the lack of food in the Blight, how can that many trollocs be fed?

Brandon indicated that they have to get food from elsewhere. Sharans probably make good food.

 

I have been wondering about this lately, too. Even if they feed on Sharans - they can not possibly feed several millions by feeding from humans. Each trolloc would need more than one human in his life too grow up, more like 20 or even a hundred. For 1 million trollocs we would need something between 20 and 100 million eaten humans. If we talk about 10 million in reserve - up to 1 billion humans eaten in a time of maybe twenty years.

 

That number just doesn't make sense at all. Especially as we know that the Shadow does not even have enough humans too create weapons for Myrdraal - which I believe is far more important than feeding trollocs.

 

There must be some other way trollocs are feed - some kind of organization dedicated to growing life stocks to feed the trollocs somewhere in the Blight.

There could very easily be Humans in the blight. Maybe in the form of a corrupt city or maybe kept like cattle by Myrdraal ranchers. Maybe both.

I think it was completely intentional and purposefully abrupt to show the huge contrast between Dark Rand and Zen Rand. As far as Rand sharing to much with people, it is about damn time. The theme of people not communicating leading to bad things has been ongoing and it only makes sense for the central character to be one of the characters to start trusting people. I think that it makes since that he is starting to trust, considering that Lews Therin lived a good portion of his life in the AoL before the Bore was drilled. That culture probably was a lot more trusting then the end of the AoL and the Third Age. Lews Therin may have had a horrible life towards the end, but the vast majority of his life should influence Rand for the better.

As far as people liking or disliking the shift, I think that part of that probably has to do with what reader's wanted to happen with Rand. Most people probably assumed that Rand would be redeemed, but not that so much of LT would shine through. I happen to like the change and like the way he has become such a positive force in a world that is running low on positives.

Also, as far as Rand sharing a lot because of the fact that he has no PoVs until the end, that probably did happen a little (maybe just once or twice). Just not easy to not have the central character not have a PoV and still get a lot of what his intentions are across to the reader. Just a sacrifice that was probably made to hide something that in Rand's head.

The portrayal of the females when they interact with the male protagonists (the gender thing) and the "funny" rape of Mat.

 

First off! Heja Sverige. Ett steg närmare världsdominans! =P

 

Second: I dk if that was Jordan´s intention but maybe he portrayed the women as interacting with the men as he did, to make a statement how the men in our world act with women. Subversive writing... although if some of the men irl were as pigheaded as some of the women in WoT I would smack them.

And rape of women is still considered as something... like meh. Mean crime, rape is bad, but hey girl? What were you wearing and maybe you liked it rough? And nobody cares.

I agree with you on this. I think RJ used gender reversal in his books to make his reader's think about gender relations in the real world. I will say that sometimes he did a good job with this, but at other times it could be confused for RJ expressing sexism towards women.

My least favorite thing about the series is the lack of strong climaxes at the end of the end of PoD and CoT. I feel like both books had a lot of good things going for them, but would have been better received if they had a more climatic climax.

There is a metal band named "Lanfear"

The band Nightwish has a song called "The Kinslayer", though it is not about The Wheel of Time. Seems likely the title is a reference to WoT though.

 

The band Nightwish is badass! <3

The title is not a reference to WoT. The song is about the Columbine massacre.

 

I said the song is not about the WoT. It does, however, seem likely that the title is a reference to WoT, especially considering Tuomas is a fantasy fan and many of their songs have literature or movie references. I have no proof that the title is a reference to WoT, it just seems likely.

 

It does not seem likely at all. I know Toumas is a fan of fantasy,the song Wishmaster is one such example. But why would the title be a reference to WoT when the song is about the killings at Columbine, doesn´t make much sense...

 

The song is about Columbine, we've established that. Is the title referring to Columbine though? The slayers at Columbine did not slay their kin. Nobody ever referred to them as kinslayers. I think it's obvious that the title has nothing to do with the song, which is not at all unheard of. Smells Like Teen Spirit comes to mind, it has nothing to do with deodorant. Toumas obviously got the name of the song from somewhere... I guess he could have made it up, but being a fan of fantasy it doesn't seem that likely.

 

Kinslayer as in slaying kin =students/humans. Just because there is Kinslayer in the title doesn´t mean that it´s about WoT. Besides Kinslayer is pretty normal compared to say Myrdraal. We obviously disagree since I claim that the title is indeed referring to the actual song and not some WoT-reference. In the songs were he has been inspired by fantasy like Wishmaster, Elvenpath and Wanderlust he even mentions some fantasy-names such as Shalafi and Elbereth.

I have to agree with Hankscorpio. The title can be a reference to WoT and the song not have anything to do with the WoT itself. Seems pretty likely to me that Nightwish may have pulled the name from WoT because it sounded cool and fit with lyrics that they may not have had a title for at that point. This seems even more likely since Nightwish seems to really be into fantasy.

Finished Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas this morning, trippy and provocative. Next up is Frank Herbert's Dune. I don't read sci-fi that often, but want to give this a shot.

Fear and Loathing was great. The movie actually did a really good job with it too.

I think that The Gathering Storm was one of the best books in the series, that said I think Towers of Midnight is the worst book in series. A lot of this feeling is because of Mat. He did not have a big role in The Gathering Storm so his change wasn't really that noticable. In Towers of Midnight, every time Mat cursed I wanted to scream that not the curse Mat would have used. I know its kind of stupid but that is just how it seemed. It was like watching the Twilight Zone version of Mat. There were two huge events I have been waiting for years and years to happen they were ruined because Sanderson's version of Mat. The scene with Gholman just pissed me off not just because of Twilight Zone Mat but because Sanderson used what I think of as a cheat for the surprise ending. Mat's thinking about how Tolmanis is disobeying orders when it turns out that he really was obeying orders. WTF! I want to be mislead for the surprise but its another thing to lie about it using a character's thoughts. A character's thoughts is the most honest view you can get. The Tower of Genji wasn't as bad as the fight with the Golem but my eyes went to the back of my head when Mat cursed at them during the escape.

 

Robert Jordan wrote the end to Memory of Light which is all I am really looking forward to right now.

From what I have been heard, Mr. Jordan wrote the ToG part or at least most of it. Also, I know what you are talking about with Mat's thoughts on Talmanes durring the Gholam scene, but give him a break. He wrote that huge book at a break neck pace and it was rushed through editing to meet the deadline that was set on it. There was bound to be errors and they will probably be fixed when the paper back comes out.

Hi, I am a long-time lurker and this is my first post

I actually like Brandon's Mat. He was a little off in TGS, but I think the characterization in ToM was on point. I think it makes sence for Mat to be acting less mature at times and more mature at other times. I attribute this to him having sort of an identity crisis, which (in my opinion) has more to do with him becoming a noble than it has to do with him getting married. Mat has never been overly fond of nobles. As for his humor being different, I would just say that is one of the more visible differences in BS's and RJ's writing styles. I happen to like both writer's humor and I think it is all just preference.

As for Brandon not being good at writing funny characters, I thought Mistborn had a good amount of humor in it. Mostly from Kelsier and if I remember correctly Sazed had a dry humor.