Meh. You really are dancing around a number of things to make it fit. Would be an interesting question for Brandon at some point.

Honestly, I have seen much worse dancing around in these forums with ideas that seem to be taken seriously.. Where words and quotes are really picked apart to its smallest threads to try to get ideas across. Especially so when it comes to the prophecy-discussions..

You linked a quote where Jordan say the Creator is completly off the chart as far as influencing events goes. I linked one where it was hinted that maybe the Creator is not completly abascent. Then you link a few qoutes about how the Creator will not help Randland win the Last Battle in an attempt by RJ to show that he wont just be using the Creator as a sudden "solve every problem"-thing. I dont see how that is dancing around to make things fit.

Also, no point asking Brandon I guess:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/brandon-sandersons-wheel-of-time-answers-from-torchat

 

There are three questions Brandon is not allowed to answer about the Wheel of Time:

1. Who Nakomi was.
2. How Rand lit the pipe at the end of the series.
3. How Rand and Moridin swapped bodies.

 

Not even Brandon knows what’s going with Rand’s pipe-lighting at the end ofA Memory of Light. “I put it in as RJ instructed, and I know nothing more about it than fandom does, I’m afraid.”

The very final scene, where Rand lights his pipe and heads off into the world was the ending scene that Robert Jordan wrote when it became clear that he would not finish the series on his own. The entire epilogue is Jordan’s, barring a few small Loial inserts and Perrin’s scenes, and was written and not dictated.

So I guess unless it will be in the encyclopedia or some spin-off story, we will never really know.

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Mar, 2000

Letter to Paul Ward (Verbatim)

PAUL WARD

Possible question: Is the Dark One pure True Power? Why does the Creator ignore Randland except to talk to Rand at the end of The Eye of the World?

ROBERT JORDAN

No, the Dark One is not pure True Power. Who says the Creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind? And I will neither confirm nor deny that the Creator spoke to Rand.

PAUL WARD

Neither confirm nor deny? What's up with that?

The question is: Why is the Creator ignoring Randland?

RJ reply with "Who say the creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind?"

So, there is no reason to believe that the creator is not in the equation at all. Completly abscent or just on vacation.

RJ have said that they can expect no help from the Creator, that Rand cannot tap into the powers of the Creator in (my ears similar to how the Forsaken tap into the True Power) and things like that..However, 

 

To me that sound like the Creator have left the fight to mankind: If you want to persist, you need to fight for it. You need to understand why it is worth it to keep fighting, maybe even why the Creator made the world in the first place! It dont mean that after the fight, the Creator won't step in to give a prize to his/her/its champion, the transmogrification of the soul into a new body. 

 Except there are many other quotes aside from the one you give where RJ makes clear the Creator takes no part.

 

>>>>Interview: Jan 18th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Tallis (Paraphrased)

Robert Jordan

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

 

The Creator is not influencing anything. The Creator would not step in to help defend the world. The Creator would not be next to Rand when he battled his emotions. The Creator would not make a huge "Shadowspawn-homing missile" like the one Rand did in Tear to help the good guys win. The Creator would not suddenly give Rand access to his/her own version of the True Power.

Reading your quotes from the top of the page, nothing of what I just said contradict that.

Interview: Jan 18th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Tallis (Paraphrased)

Robert Jordan

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

This is the only thing that could be read as the Creator not even being close to the Pattern (as much as someone can be far away from anything in a void or a plane of non-existence). Like how the constructionworker build a house and once it is finished never set a foot inside it again. But that could be countered with my quote where Jordan tease that the Creator might peek in through the windows of his house to check how things are doing inside.

Interview: Jun 17th, 1995

East of the Sun Interview - Helena Lofgren (Paraphrased)

Robert Jordan

Another point he pressed was that "no one's going to rescue you", there are not going to happen any miracles. The Creator shaped the world and set the rules, but does not interfere. Humankind messed things up, and have to fix it too, as well as finding the truth themselves.

This is as I said. No one is going to step in to help. The Creator might be curious about how things are going, but no help will come. No help to fix what they did wrong when the borde the whole. They have now fixed what they did wrong, the Dark one is out of the pattern again and the bore is mended ("forged anew"), and the Creator did not help to make that happen in any way.

Interview: Apr, 1997

SFX Magazine Interview (Paraphrased)

Robert Jordan

Thirdly, in defeating the Dark One, the good guys can expect absolutely no help off the Creator, and no miracles will occur.

Again, the Creator will not participate in the fight in any way. No divine favors. "You fekked things up, you sort it. I can always just creat a new world.". Jordan also say specificly: "in defeating the Dark one"..

Interview: Oct 12th, 1996

ACOS Signing Report - Michael Martin (Paraphrased)

Question

 

The Creator's "Inability" To Act On His Creation

 

Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device.

Robert Jordan

RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowledging imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up. :-)

Helping Rand at the end, is not really participating or affecting the outcome. The Last Battle has been won (for now) and the world need to recover. In no way did the Creator affect the outcome of the Last Battle and in no way is the Creator helping to rebuild the world or even help stabilize the pattern (all the dark fissure of void on the ground could be mended by the Creator but according to Sanderson: "All of the cracks from balefire use are still present in the world, but will eventually heal themselves." ). The Creator will not be affecting anything, or admitting any imperfections, if he/she would like to congratulate his/her champion. 

In analogy with the christian theology (probably other myths as well but that's the one I'm familiar with) Rand "died on the cross" to save mankind and all that. Now he has been allowed to enter a new body in which he can live out a life in peace and harmony, being one with the world. God, the Creator, helped to make that transition happen. Unless we accept that Rand had the power to soul-swap all by himself or that the Balefire-crossing somehow enabled a link to let it happen automaticly or subcounciously for some reason.

Either Rand switched bodies on his won somehow, or Nakomi was the one to do it with a weave, ter'angreal or using a similar force as we see Rand use to light his pipe. Either that, or the Creator did it. We only know one force that can move souls if done close to the moment of death and that is the Dark One. I doubt the Dark One, just being sealed out of the Pattern, could still have that kind of influence over the world. We do know that Nyms were made alive by borrowing a soul from the "reservoir" of souls awaiting rebirth so at least people knew how to "borrow" souls.

 

INTERVIEW: Dec 9th, 2002

Wotmania and Dragonmount Q&A

QUESTION

How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?

ROBERT JORDAN

To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.

TAGS

constructs, souls, nym, trollocs,

Or, simply, as is mentioned in the TOR-chat summary: "Regarding Nakomi: “With all of the homages to global myths/legends in WoT is it fair to consider Nakomi as a Wandering Jew/Jenn?” Brandon’s response: “That’s a very clever question that nobody has yet asked me. I’m not going to say more, however.”

Or, Nakomi could just be a correction mechanism of the Pattern, ment to try to avoid the bad stuff going to happen to the Aiel.

Either way, I still argue that the Creator is not "never ever looking in to see what is going on", but rather taking a stroll through the lands from time to time, as a gardener would go in to see how things are progressing. Not to help the plants grow or take care of them, but just to admire how things are progressing.

 

INTERVIEW: Mar, 2000

Letter to Paul Ward (Verbatim)

PAUL WARD

Possible question: Is the Dark One pure True Power? Why does the Creator ignore Randland except to talk to Rand at the end of The Eye of the World?

ROBERT JORDAN

No, the Dark One is not pure True Power. Who says the Creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind? And I will neither confirm nor deny that the Creator spoke to Rand.

PAUL WARD

Neither confirm nor deny? What's up with that?

The question is: Why is the Creator ignoring Randland?

RJ reply with "Who say the creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind?"

So, there is no reason to believe that the creator is not in the equation at all. Completly abscent or just on vacation.

RJ have said that they can expect no help from the Creator, that Rand cannot tap into the powers of the Creator in (my ears similar to how the Forsaken tap into the True Power) and things like that..However, 

To me that sound like the Creator have left the fight to mankind: If you want to persist, you need to fight for it. You need to understand why it is worth it to keep fighting, maybe even why the Creator made the world in the first place! It dont mean that after the fight, the Creator won't step in to give a prize to his/her/its champion, the transmogrification of the soul into a new body. 

 

Rand is the CoL, it is his soul that is spun out time and again for that purpose and souls don't change gender.

 

 

 

 

 

Aan'allein

It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?

 

Robert Jordan

It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world

that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound

to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's

purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.

 

Aan'allein

But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...

Robert Jordan

...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male,

just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's

soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are

not interchangeable.

 

>> 

Interview: 2001                                                         

Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)                                                                                   

 Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel)                                            

Robert Jordan                                           

 

Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is

one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I

didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.

 

 

As you quote yourself, and as people love to mention that the Big White Book is seen as from the PoV of a Randland person, he do say "That is, that is the belief of the world that I've set up, that it's the same soul.". 

The key words being "It is the belief of the world". Just as everyone knew that stilling / gentling could not be healed. We also get a hint from Berelain that think being burned out should also be possible to heal somehow..

Notice how he do not actually say "this is how it works". He say "This is how people in my world think it works."

Also, the last quote with the name of the female hero forgotten could very well be Nakomi.

I am not sure these are two different things: There is a talent to read residues, but there is also a way to use your own weaves to try to sense a resonance. I'm trying to find any source for this but cannot find anything, so maybe I dreamed this..

Apparently there is a way for women to be able to find out what a man have channeled ("There is almost no way for a woman to tell when a man is channeling, though the residues of his channeling can be detected using an appropriate weave." http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/One_Power'>http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/One_Power) and I think it is the thing about resonance.

The reason you might think that men cannot see weaves is probably because men cannot really see if another man hold saidin, at least not the way women do with the bright aura of light. ("A man can sense when another man is holding saidin, though not in the way women do: a man would describe it as a feeling of awe and menace -- with nothing truly visible -- and not easily pinpointed to a particular location or person." http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/One_Power)

Also, I might have this confused with some other books, but the reason there have not been any fights like the one between Nyn and Moggy but between two men, is because men apparently rather fight with offensice attacks like fire and lightning instead of the more "subtle" act of shielding. We see Rand fighting Rhavin in TAR by encasing him in roaring fire, instead of just cutting off his link to the One Power or something similar.

It could also just be that Rand have fought to kill while Moggy and Nyn fought to capture and survive.

Two short questions that came to my mind while listening to the audiobooks again.

 

1. While the Kin get much older than the Aes Sedai (because of no oaths) is there anything known about this with the Aiel? I think Bair told a story about a famous Wise One, Mora, who was able to channel and who got very old (it was rumored about 300 years), till she died through a snake bite. But Bair wasn't sure about the age, she even was calling it kind of a legend. So why do we not know about Wise Ones getting much older than Aes Sedai? It seems unlikely that they did not tell anyone about it because of Bairs doubts - and she seems to be the oldest of Amys (second), Melaine and hers. So maybe only Sorilea (who can channel different from Bair) seems to be older than Bair.

Is it due to the living conditions of the Aiel - as it was indicated, that this very old Wise One just died because of a snake bite?

This is a bit of a stretch, but in one of the later of Avi's viewings (ToM, chapter 49, Court of the Sun) we hear her as being a Wise One who can not channel.

She was Ladalin, Wise One of the Taardad Aiel. How she wished that she had been able to learn to channel. That was a shameful thought, wishing for a talent one did not have, but she could not deny it.

She sat in the tent, feeling regretful, If she'd been able to work with the One Power, perhaps she could have done more to help the wounded. She could have remained young to lead her clan, and perhas her bones would not ache so. Old age was a frustration when there was so much to do.

Well, we know that Aiel channelers do live longer than the others. How long though? do we really know?

Have come to the chapter in ToM where Perrin uses the wolf dream to scout out the Whitecloak's camp. It reads suspiciously like Tel'aran'rhiod - are they the same thing?

Read a few chapters more, about 3/4 of the book or more, and you will get your answer. :)

2. You are correct. It is a subtle distinction, but an important one i think. Insanity in itself is incurable. But the taint induced maddness is something else. It is a forced maddness. You remove the abnormality of the taint from the persons mind, like Nynaeve did, you cure it. It was unnatural. The DO caused this. Natural insanity is something different. It is a problem of the mind, a deeper thing.

 

Sorry, it is very difficult to put into words, I am not sure if I got the point across. Basically, the taint caused an unnatrual maddness. Like a thorn in someones foot. Nynaeve pulled it out. Natural maddness there is something wrong with that proverbial foot. Much harder to cure. ,

 

The problem with this explanation is, as I recall the "insanity is incurable" statement from RJ was given in response to Lews Therin's madness. Lews Therin's madness was caused by the DO, so according to your explanation it should fall into the same curable category as Naeff's. One could postulate that LTT was in a different category since he was part of the Hundred Companions who were driven immediately insane, which I suppose could drive it into "natural insanity" in a Lovecraftian way (or simply being directly attacked by the DO is different than being slowly affected by only the taint). It would be interesting to find out if the Notes say anything about this inconsistency.

If I can for a moment choose to ignore the mention that the quote from RJ that started this debate probably is flawed and I can assume that both the "It can't be healed with the OP" and Nyn just healed it with the OP" are legit points of view:

I see it a bit like HIV and AIDS. HIV lead to AIDS. The Taint slowly inducing madness is HIV and when you are then finally pushed over the edge (and I know there is probably not a fine line here when that happens) then you go Mad and "get AIDS". Nyn can heal HIV, but not AIDS.

Other than that, she did not cure the madness. She only removed the "Compulsion", the taint, from his mind. Any permanent damage to his mind would still have lingered but the effects of the Taint was removed.