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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

True Source Creator

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  1. Just finished today. 

     

    What a book! What a series!

     

    First up, the deaths.

     

    -Siuan (didn't think she was going to die, but a fitting death)

    -Bryne (see above)

    -Gawyn (YES! Demandred is the first Forsaken to kill off a main character. About flippin' time)

    -Galad (oh wait, no he didn't die...thought he did. Kinda wished he had)

    -Bela (WTF! NOOOOOOOOO!)

    -Rhuarc (more surprised he was Compulsed than anything)

    -Romanda/Lelaine (fitting they both died on the same page)

    -Birgitte (a bit shocking)

    -Egwene (biggest surprise death IMO. I rather liked her so it was sudden an unexpected)

     

    I'm sure I'm missing a few of the good guys, but the fates of the bad guys and my reactions:

     

    -Demandred (never imagined Lan would kill him. Thought it was going to be Mat)

    -Graendal/Hesalam (liked how the DO just turned her into some ugly witch. Liked even more how her own Compulsion turned against her. A fitting end for her)

    -Lanfear (the only Forsaken I was genuinely sad to see die. For a while, I was really hoping she was going to help the good guys out. In the final scene with her, despite obvious ploys toward Perrin, I thought something in her was going to help her help Perrin help Rand defeat Moridin, but instead she took a different path and I was upset that she didn't come back to the Light as had been hypothesized by many)

    -Moghedian (she got by well enough, but it was funny to see her collared in the end)

    -Taim (booted up to Chosen. Egwene raped him in that fight)

    -Padan Fain (a bit sudden. He was in the book for like one chapter. As if forgotten the whole time. And in the same chapter he gets killed off like 5 pages later)

    -Slayer (a bit redudant. I feel like he should have been finished in Towers of Midnight instead)

    -Alviarin and co (eh, a weird conclusion for them)

    -Mellar (lol, that "fake Birgitte" you killed was actually the real one...and she killed you right back)

    -Moridin (fitting I suppose that he should get death and Rand should live)

     

     

    Anyways, Perrin's chapter were the most interesting of the three ta'veren this time around. Mat and Rand were close at second and/or third (probably Mat's were better). Rand, despite being the protagonist, had most of his focus on the DO (obviously) and those were few and far between at times, so we got a lot closer to Perrin and Mat, and I liked that.

     

    Egwene was great, especially in her demise. An unexpected but powerful one.

     

    Demandred proved to be the most badass of the Forsaken after all. The only one to kill any main characters...and the Sharan plotline. Yes, just yes! He was the most capable of the Forsaken and that makes him the best one of them all.

     

    Did the Tinkers find their song after all? Don't really care for that plot regardless, but I'm thinking it had something to do with the Ogiers...maybe?

     

    Androl and Pevara taking center stage in the first third of the book. That was interesting and they're probably the best couple in the book. 

     

    Cadsuane being asked to Amyrlin...might work.

     

    Graendal accomplishing something (with taking out the Great Generals) was pretty satisfying.

     

    Lanfear played so many heartstrings. I didn't know what side she was on but I was hopeful that it was the Light, just so we could actually have a Forsaken come back to the Light

     

    Moiraine's return got the proper reaction it deserved

     

    Mat's and Tuon's storyline definitely developed nicely

     

    Moghedien being absent for the majority of the novel fit her character very well. Should have known it was her being the spy for the Seanchan.

     

    The Dark One seems less bad than imagined. It's like an essence that exists in everyone and in a way it is necessary for balance, like Rand saw when he decided killing Shai'tan would be worse than keeping him alive.

     

    Rand's ending is a bit bizarre but rather satisfying for him. A great way to end the series with the whole wind thing. But it was a ending. GREAT!

  2. When did you first know Dashiva was Osan'gar/Aginor? On my initial read through, I didn't really pay much attention to him, especially as the books he's featured in are mostly ACoS, TPoD, and WH, which kind of lost my interest a bit. But in WH we find out Dashiva is really Osan'gar, who was first seen in LoC before Dashiva came to Taim, or Taim to him?, to the Black Tower. And we learn in WH that Osan'gar was really Aginor reincarnated.

     

    But now on my second read through, I can see a lot of subtle hints that Dashiva was a Forsaken. In ACoS, we learn that he was pushing Flinn to learn things that most of the Asha'man didn't know how to do, and that's how Flinn (I think it was Flinn) was able to Heal Rand after the Shadar Logoth knife stab wound. Later we hear from Rand's PoV that Dashiva was holding almost as much of the One Power as Rand himself possibly could when Rand awakens from his wounds. And when, in the same chapter, Rand discusses going to attack Sammael that very day, Dashiva seems concerned and the only one unhappy with the plan.

     

    So how did you first know Dashiva was a Forsaken, and that he was Osan'gar?

  3. My favorites, because it's almost impossible to choose one: Rand, Mat, Lanfear, Ishmael/Moridin, Demandred, Moiraine, Min, Semirhage, Thom, Lan, Nynaeve, Egwene (sometimes, but not always), Aviendha (sometimes, but not always), and of course Verin.

     

    I voted Lanfear though, just because I do love her as a character. I want her to come back to the Light.

  4. At first I thought it was Moghedian myself, but now that I think about it, that's completely unlike her. She always hides in the shadows; you would pretty much have to be looking for her in TAR to find her. She certainly wouldn't just appear to some random girl in TAR and talk to her.

  5. I think she's the strongest, excepting Bera and Kiruna. I might be mistaken, though.

     

    EDIT: That's not it. The power scale goes (according to 13th depository's Linda):

    Level 10: Bera Harkin, Kiruna Nachiman

    Level 9: Faeldrin Harella, Masuri Sokawa, Rafela Cindal

    Level 8: Alanna Mosvani, Merana Ambrey, Seonid Traighan, Verin Mathwin

    (emboldened are the five present at the time).

    Of course, this doesn't take into consideration age, but Rafela is actually rather young, not much older than Moiraine. Perhaps it's that she's Blue, and they were dealing with prophecies (Greens don't seem to be considered helpful in that situation). Don't know.

    How is this measuring power? By strength in the One Power? And if so, do higher levels (e.g. Level 10) indicate higher performance/strength, or do lower levels (e.g. Level 1)? Where can a full list of this sort be found?

  6. So while we're on this topic, who is more advanced with Tel'aran'rhiod: Lanfear or Moghedian?

     

    Moghedian always claimed to be better than Lanfear, and Birgitte made some remarks suggesting the same. Yet one cannot deny that Lanfear is adeptly skilled at prowling through Tel'aran'rhiod and enterring people's dreams. In ToM, for instance, she even gets into Rand's dreams despite his blocks when she appears to him as Cyndane. And as far as I'm concerned, Moghedian's skill never impressed me. She allowed herself to be collared with an a'dam; Egwene, who has been a Dreamwalker for a much shorter amount of time, realized that if she didn't accept an a'dam as true there, she wouldn't be collared by it when Mesaana tries to collar her. So if Egwene, who has been enterring Tel'aran'rhiod for maybe a year and a half or two years tops, and probably not even that long, can do that, then why couldn't Moghedian if she is supposed to be the female Forsaken with most knowledge of TAR.

     

    I recall somewhere that Jordan or Sanderson mentioned there were at least two Forsaken, one male and one female, who were exceptionally well skilled at using TAR. The male is obviously Ishamael/Moridin, and I assumed the female was Lanfear, yet someone stated it was Moghedian.

  7. How could I forget these two, both from the same scene.

     

     

    1) "By the way, that dress you are wearing is green." - Verin (TGS) - I got shivers

     

    2) "I don't trust you. I don't think I ever have." - Egwene;

    "Very wise. I am, after all, of the Black Ajah." - Verin

     

  8. There are some really catchy quotes, those that are memorable and stick with you. What ones come to mind to you?

     

    One that I really like (I can't remember who says it) from Winter's Heart:

     

    "She's channeling saidin." - In response to Aran'gar seizing saidin during the Cleansing of Saidin

     

    Of course there's also

     

    "Kneal, or be knealt." - Taim (Lord of Chaos - post Dumai's Well battle)

     

     

    What other great ones come to mind?

  9. Sylvie was Lanfear.

    Ok, that also makes sense then. She seems to assume the role of a lot of people, and she was one of the Forsaken watching Tear (although I wonder if perhaps they all were, really, just not all physically).

     

    Also, I read somewhere that it was Semirhage's Trollocs that attacked the Stone of Tear in TSR shortly after Rand encounters Lanfear in his bedchamber, and then Lanfear's Trollocs counter Semirhage's. Is this true?

  10. I have two questions, guys. And they both concern the same subject matter.

     

    1) By The Shadow Rising, Danelle is already Mesaana, right? Danelle's first appearance is in Siuan's chambers when Elaida leads the Aes Sedai to remove the stole and evict Siuan from her position as Amyrlin Seat. I assume that Danelle is really Mesaana already then, in which case we can definitely see that the Black Ajah was behind Siuan's stilling because Mesaana herself was in the room with Alviarin and other members of the Black Ajah when Siuan was removed from her position.

     

    2) Was it Mesaana who interrogated and then killed Sahra on the farm in The Shadow Rising? I've assumed it was Mesaana since the first time I read the book, but I'm curious if it was her or one of her minions, like Alviarin.

  11. the complete and utter worthlessness of the forsaken and the villains in general. seriously they are all cartoonish villains with the exception of padan fain. struggle between good and evil? give me a bloody break. This aint no struggle.

     

    The apparent invulnerability of the emond fielders. I am so sick of it now. And this disease has caught on to the support cast as well.

     

     

    after 13 books not one single major character has met its end. what a friggin joke. No tension whatsoever in this series

    While I do agree that the "good guys" are just way too unrealistically invulnerable to defeat, I have only observed that you seem to criticize this series in every post you've made (at least every one I've seen). I ponder why you bother venturing to a Wheel of Time message board then. That said, yes, I do wish there was a bit more realism and less redudancy in always having the antagonists get their butts kicked by a "supposedly" weaker group of heroes.

  12. While I do enjoy many of the characters and like some varying points of view, I agree with AuldGoldBear. There get too be so many storylines and characters in each of them that it gets bogged down. Your example with Thom is a bloody excellent point. In the first three books, I adored Thom immensely. He was "fatherly" and yet also "friend-like", his sacrifice at Whitebridge being noble, his reunion with Rand in Cairhien being incredible, and his ventures in TDR being rather solid. After that, he just gets cast in as "there" with the other characters in Mat's party. I'm glad Moiraine's letter has finally be revealed, for now I foresee him doing something great in the future (Towers of Midnight, I assume).

     

    There are also some unnecessary point-of-views. The ones from the Sea Folk are perhaps the greatest examples, but then we also get unnecessary POVs like from the captain of the Deathwatch Guards toward the end of "KoD" when his small band comes to find Tuon and Mat. That easily could have been told from Mat's POV instead, and it was briefly, but it started out from the other guy's POV just to clarify that Mat seemed like a rascal and not the future Prince of Ravens. We already knew that.

  13. "The Gathering Storm" question

     

    Chapter: The Last That Could Be Done

     

    Semirhage has collared Rand and is forcing him to choke Min, when suddenly Rand feels a strange power overcoming him. Lews Therin screams that they must not use it as it was "HIM" (Shai'ton), and then a face passes before Rand's view. Was that Moridin, helping from his "bond" with Rand? He did say previously that he could kill Semirhage for what she had done (the hand), but why would Moridin go against Shaidar Haran (the most sentient form of the Dark One at this point in time)? Shaidar Haran came to Semirhage with explicit instructions that she must not fail, so I don't know why Moridin would go against orders from Shaidar Haran and kill Semirhage like that, unless Shaidar Haran was getting annoyed that Semirhage was toying around too much and not focusing. Odd.

     

     

    By the way, if it's actually a RAFO thing, then I'll do that. I was actually just curious if this is speculatory or if it's actually something already revealed, in which case I can definitely RAFO it. If speculatory, though, I just wanted to contribute to it and ponder if others have.

  14. The romances. GAH! Why does every character have to have a love interest. My biggest complaint is just hearing Gawyn want to break into the White Tower to save Egwene...without having any real relationship with her. Ugh!

     

     

    And I don't like the portrayal (from the women's point of views) of all the males as stubborn, wool-headed, idiotic, macho, etc. etc. etc. Sheesh! I don't think it's right for a guy to slap a girl or what have you, but there should be some restraint to having almost every woman character slap or talk down to at least one man in the course of the series.

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