"Welcome to the White Tower" said the smiling woman. "Of course child, follow me this way."

Elin was shocked by the opulence of the finery that lined the hallways. When the Children preached against Aes Sedai they claimed that they hoarded wealth in Tar Valon, but Elin had always assumed that was simply manipulating the listeners into jealousy. Her mother’s brother had gone to Amador and seen the Children’s Fortress, and he said that it did not lack in splendor either.

Elin paused at one particular hanging, which showed a severe looking man wearing a white robe with the Children’s sunburst on his breast, sitting in a meadow speaking with a woman wearing a fine dress. Stitched near the bottom was the title “Lothair Mantelar debates the nature of The Light with Zarine Washoni.” Elin was shocked. Everyone in Amadicia knew the name Lothair Mantelar, but none would ever dare hint at the suggestion he had sat and conversed with a witch!

“Miss, is this tapestry a recounting of a real event? I grew up in a small town in Amadicia, and I’ve never heard that Mantelar debated with an Aes Sedai.” Elin was confused and tired, and trying to keep her manners in place while even the most trivial of things here changed how she perceived the world. “I apologize. I’ve asked you questions and had you leading me all over the Tower, but I have not introduced myself. My name is Elin, Elin Hawes, if it pleases you. May I have your name?”

-----------

"Excuse me Valeri Sedai, but i have here Elin Hawes, she has been sent to you by Shyla Sedai." Amadine introduced Elin, and the Amadician girl smiled shyly back at the older woman. Elin was glad that the first person she met here had been so kind.

"Come in child, sit down" Valeri said and motioned to the cushioned chair opposite her own, "You appear to have had a long journey, take a seat and tell me what brings you here today."

Elin curtsied to the Aes Sedai, hoping that the motion would dislodge some of the dust that still clung to her dress. It would not do to get that much dust on such fine furniture. With a small sigh, she sat down into the soft cushioned seat, knowing it was the most comfortable thing she had sat on since Caemlyn.

“Thank you Valeri Sedai,” Elin was grateful to Shyla Sedai for those few brief lessons on protocol. “I am here because Shyla Sedai says that I have begun to channel, and so I must come here to learn to control myself. I met Shyla Sedai in Caemlyn, but I am from Amadicia. When it became unsafe for me to continue living with my family, my mother sent me away to Caemlyn, where she felt I could make my own life.” A brief, concise, and entirely factual answer. Elin did not want to waste this important woman's time.

Elin kept her head demurely down, her eyes not meeting the sister’s gaze, but just elevated enough so that the bonnet did not block her view of the sister’s face. Deep inside, she knew that Shyla was wrong. It wasn’t Elin that could channel, but somehow the Light had kept her long dead twin brother Nile with her, and Nile was the one who kept channeling. For some reason, Shyla never saw, nor even seemed to sense, Nile; the Aes Sedai simply assumed that it was Elin channeling.

Surely someone here would be able to detect Nile. Elin didn’t want them to take Nile from her, but she would be glad when they realized she could not be a channeler. Perhaps she would be able to go home one day. Though, if Nile was still with her when she went, people would be bound to notice the odd occurrences that were sure to follow them both.

Elin kept her face neutral, waiting for the Mistress of Novices.

~Elin Hawes

Amadician Wilder, with an interesting block

Handle: Phelix

Character: Elin Hawes

Rank: Novice

Last RP'd: This afternoon

• Novice Quiz - [Complete]

• Arrival: Meet MoN - http://www.dragonmou...-from-amadicia/ - [ 4/ 4 ] [Complete]

• Novice Life - http://www.dragonmou...imes-to-be-had/ - [ 4/ 4 ] [Complete]

• One OP Related RP - URL - [ 4/ 4 ] (Word Count: 3073) [Complete]
  * Class 1: - http://www.dragonmou...to-all-novices/ - [ 1/ 1 ] [Complete]
  * Class 2: - http://www.dragonmou...dar-lesson-two/ - [ 1/ 1 ] [Complete]
  * Class 3: - http://www.dragonmou...r-lesson-three/ - [ 1 / 1 ] [Complete]
  * Class 4: - http://www.dragonmou...ar-lesson-four/ - [ 1/ 1 ] [Complete]

• Choice RP:
  * Homesickness Solo Post - http://www.dragonmou...n-homesickness/ - 1079 [ 1/ 1 ] [Complete]

* Breaking the Block - http://www.dragonmou...kathleen-sedai/ - [Complete]

• Three Arches - http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/51701-elins-arches/ - 3321- [Complete]

It had been a long, dry trip from Caemlyn to Tar Valon, but Elin was pleased to be there.

The Aes Sedai in Caemlyn had said her name was Shyla Adair, though she had told Elin the proper way to address her was ‘Shyla Sedai.’ Elin had sat politely, her eyes downcast and her face properly covered by her bonnet, listening to Shyla Sedai’s lectures. The Aes Sedai explained that she was a member of the Gray Ajah, a group of Aes Sedai who work to further justice, peace, and wise rule in the world; and that there were six other ajahs who all had their own purpose and role in the world.

They had a few more conversations over the next two days, ranging in topic from what was expected of new novices to what the root of the conflict between the Children of the Light and the Tower was. That particularly interested Elin because in her experience, the Children were to be feared and no one ever thought rationally about them.

Two days after meeting Elin, Shyla Sedai called the young girl into a private dinning room in the inn next door to the bakery Elin had been working at. The Aes Sedai smiled, causing small crow’s feet to appear around her eyes.

“Elin, I know that you have passed the channeling sickness and can embrace the Source as you please, so please, show me how you do it.” Her motherly smile warmed Elin, and a quiet whispered voice in her ear said ‘don’t worry Elin, I will hold the Power and she’ll think it’s you.’

Smiling, she felt the warmth fill her, knowing that Nile was still protecting her. “Like this, Shyla Sedai?”

“Yes, dear, that is good. Now, I want you to pull it into you, filling you up with its warmth, then breathe it out. Then do it again.”

Taking a deep breath, Elin hoped Nile would listen to the sister. When she felt his warmth get closer to her, she felt the warmth of the Power, then she let her breath flow out and Nile let the power go.

“No, no, dear... don’t release it entirely. Fill yourself, then push it away but keep the lightest of touches on the Power.” For the rest of the night, Shyla coached Elin on this technique, but Nile never quite grasped it. Shyla was kind, and didn’t let her disappointment show. The next morning, Shyla met Elin at her bedroom door, and instructed her to meet the Inn keeper’s son in the stable. He was driving a wagon full of her goods to a merchant’s wagon train, and from there on to Tar Valon. Elin was to ride with him, and to learn how to handle the reins, in case he needed someone to handle the horses for any reason.

The trip was long and completely uneventful, but very dusty. Which was why the young Amadician woman was shamed to find herself standing in the lobby of the White Tower’s entrance for prospective Novices covered in road-dust. Even her normally black bonnet had taken on a dirty brown hue, and she doubted her lavender dress would ever look anything like that beautiful shade of purple ever again.

As she felt the tears welling up, she stifled them. She had learned long ago, from the many encounters with Children of the Light, that tears only marked you as a potential victim. There wouldn’t be Children here, of course, but there was no sense advertising how upset she was. Dabbing the tears away, she centered herself and walked to the Accepted sitting behind the desk.

With her eyes politely downcast, and her hands folded at her waist, she spoke to the older woman, “Pardon, but Shyla Sedai tested me in Caemlyn and she told me to come here to speak with Valeri Sedai, who is the Mistress of Novices. May I see her this afternoon?”

Vermillion,

You assume that you have to have a "link" to the DO to channel the TP, and that to get this "link" you must go to Shayol Ghul. These two assumptions underpin your whole argument, but there is no support for the assumptions.

Further, you assume that there is a special kind of void to reach the TP, which is again a flawed assumption. All we know is that Rand "snapped" and went a bit sociopathic. We do not know that it is a new kind of void.

All of your assumptions are easily answered by the fact that the DO, a deity, can choose who has access to his power at will. We know that the DO was actively manipulating this situation, hence Shaidar Haran, and we know that this Avatar has many of the DO's abilities to warp reality. He's shielded people, he's made the True Source entirely disappear from a Channeler's perspective. Shaidar Haran is, effectively, a mobile Shayol Ghul.

IF, and I do emphasize the IF, one needs to be in the presence of the DO to receive his permission to channel the TP, then having Shaidar Haran there counts.

So, please explain why you need to have a link to the DO to channel the TP, and why that link must be established at Shayol Ghul. Why is the Dark One's will and permission not enough?

The Dark One's avatar, the living flesh that houses his will, was present in that situation. Shaidar Haran was in the same house as Rand and the rest of them. If you need some special mark just from being in the presence of the Dark One, then that counts.

No matter how certain you are, you've not presented facts or logic.

Why does a deity need to mark who can use its power? Why, when the TP is discussed in the books, does no one mention being marked? We've had several of the Forsaken give Points of View while thinking about the TP, surely one of them would have mentioned having to be marked by the DO in his presence in Shayol Ghul if it was necessary.

Why would you have to be marked to use the TP? You can only draw on the TP with the Dark One's express will and permission. It's not like he's a large trolloc that needs to be told who can and who cannot use the TP. It's his power.

The reason you have to be marked to control the trollocs is because they are inherently violent creatures that seek to kill and destroy humanity, so obeying a human is against their nature. Having the DO's mark showing that you are to be obeyed by his creatures makes sense.

The two are entirely different things that don't relate. It's like comparing apples and bacon. (To borrow a phrase I heard at a bar in Washington DC last weekend.)

I disagree, obviously. ;)

 

Rand sees Moridin's face when he channels saidin, but we know Rand can (and likely is) reach saidin without going through Moridin, so why does Rand see the Nae'blis when he channels saidin?

 

As another poster just brought up, Shaidar Haran was there maneuvering this particular event, and we saw Semirhage cry out that DO abandoned her.

 

The most likely interpretation of these events is that the DO wanted Rand to be forced to touch the TP, drawing Rand closer to the DO, pushing him closer to madness, and pushing him closer to destroying creation. As we saw Rand almost do.

 

I think the main issue then is how the Rand-Moridin link functions. Obviously Rand doesn't need to reach through Moridin to channel. However, we know that when Rand does channel, his link to Moridin causes complications like retching and double vision. His link to Moridin affects Rand's link to saidin. It is not a stretch to think that the True Power would get messed up with it if they are merging or whatever is happening to them.

 

I think the most likely interpretation is that the Dark One is encouraging Rand's use of the True Power and the mechanism being used for Rand's access is through Moridin. To access the True Power, Rand had to completely disconnect from his compassion. I think it is all one big ball of what everyone has argued.

I agree, actually, that the main issue (on which the rest of this debate hinges) is the mechanics of the link between Rand and Moridin.

In most situations, the simplest solution is the most likely one. Can we generally accept that premise? If so, have Rand draw on the TP through Moridin is adding a layer of complexity that does not make sense. We know that the Dark One can grant access to the TP. We know that the Avatar of the Dark One was present and involved in the situation in which Rand used the TP. We agree that the Dark One is likely encouraging Rand's use of the TP for his own motives.

Based on those facts, and our agreement on the DO's intent, the simplest answer is that the Dark One allowed Rand to access the TP on his own. Reaching through Moridin doesn't make sense.

The only way I see it working, it being Rand drawing through Moridin, is if it were a linking situation, where Rand reached for the TP through Moridin and pulled Moridin into a link. There are many problems with that situation, though.

First, Rand's awareness of Moridin is fleeting and dull. In every other linking situation those participating in the link have heightened awareness of each other for the duration of the link. Secondly, proximity matters. Yes, Rand is linked some how to Moridin, but in every example of linking in the series you must be within a relatively small distance of the person you wish to link with. Moridin generally keeps to the Blight and Shayol Ghul, and Rand was far to the South. Thirdly, by the mechanics established in the series, men are not able to initiate links. That is generally a rule for the One Power, but because the TP is similar enough to the OP that it can be weaved by any competent channeler, the general rules must be the same.

All in all, I think Occam's razor must apply. For Rand to draw the TP through his link to Moridin, we would need to see the basic rules of channeling changed. The more simple, more elegant, solution is that the Dark One wanted Rand to have access to the True Power, so he gave Rand access.

Now, onto the nature and mechanics of the bond between Rand and Moridin. We know that the bond was created with Moridin balefired Rand's balefire. There are two likely causes for the linking between them: first, balefire being a weave that destroys the thread of a soul, being turned against itself caused the threads of the two involved to be spliced together; second, the caustic interaction between the TP and the OP caused that splicing.

Myself, I lean towards the former. What are your thoughts?

it's rwthern hsrd to typenwith these fingerd crossed. :P

Sorry Elgee... :)

Don't mean to be a pain... just wanting to get started. :D

*does the anxiously waiting dance, which is remarkably similar to the potty dance, but subtly different*

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

 

Just because Rand saw Moridin's face when he channeled the TP doesn't mean he channeled the TP through Moridin. He's been seeing Moridin's face all the time lately, when he was channeling saidin, when he wasn't channeling at all. Seeing Moridin's face at that moment could mean any number of things... perhaps Moridin sensed what was happening, and thought of Rand... causing his face to flash through Rand's mind.

 

Yeah, but it is at least a hint that it through his link to Moridin that he accessed the True Power. While not conclusive, it is highly suggestive of this.

 

Breaking down the quote, it goes "Rand feels nothing, Rand senses the True Power, Rand reaches for True Power, Rand sense Moridin, Rand holds True Power." It points strongly to the link with Moridin being key to his True Power access. Your objections show that it may not be true, but it doesn't make it unlikely.

I disagree, obviously. ;)

Rand sees Moridin's face when he channels saidin, but we know Rand can (and likely is) reach saidin without going through Moridin, so why does Rand see the Nae'blis when he channels saidin?

As another poster just brought up, Shaidar Haran was there maneuvering this particular event, and we saw Semirhage cry out that DO abandoned her.

The most likely interpretation of these events is that the DO wanted Rand to be forced to touch the TP, drawing Rand closer to the DO, pushing him closer to madness, and pushing him closer to destroying creation. As we saw Rand almost do.

I think it is the link. From what I gather Rand would need to have the link like he cut from Ishamael which you have to go to SG to get. I think the link between Moridin showed him how to assume the voided need for TP and allowed him to channel through his SG link.

 

This begs the question does Rand have the black strand. I know it was for the filter but I think it was also access to TP.

OK, why do you think that? Why do you need a filter to channel the TP? The Dark One is everywhere, he's just most accessible at Shayol Ghul, so why is it necessary that Rand have gone there to have such a link to the TP/DO?

We know that the DO gave access to the TP to about 30 people during the War of Power before the Taint existed, which meant they did not need filters. Yes, we have seen the DO require his followers to come to the bore to receive his touch, but he can be elsewhere (as evidenced by the twisting of the world when Rand named shai'tan in the Great Hunt).

We also know that women don't need the filters and do not have the black strands. As far as I recall, but feel free to correct me, no one ever saw black strands around Lanfear, Semirhage, or any of the rest.

Unless you've got something pretty hefty to support your claim, it doesn't make sense for the filter to be a requirement of channeling the TP. Which likely means it is unnecessary for Rand to be channeling the TP through Moridin. Which further means it is likely Rand was channeling the TP on his own, and the DO simply made it accessible to Rand to push him over the edge.

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

Just because Rand saw Moridin's face when he channeled the TP doesn't mean he channeled the TP through Moridin. He's been seeing Moridin's face all the time lately, when he was channeling saidin, when he wasn't channeling at all. Seeing Moridin's face at that moment could mean any number of things... perhaps Moridin sensed what was happening, and thought of Rand... causing his face to flash through Rand's mind.

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

Sure, it is possible that the DO did not intend Rand to have access to the TP but Rand was able to grab it through his connection to Moridin, but the fact that Rand continues to sense it, be tempted to use it, for the rest of the book implies otherwise. We're told that use of the TP is at the sole discretion of the DO. If Rand didn't have his permission, Rand wouldn't be able to draw on it afterward.

Considering it happened in tGS and there's going to be a new book out in about a month and a half, it seems a bit silly to put it in the Spoiler Section.

People are allowed to channel the TP by the express will of the Dark One. He grants them the ability to do so based on his desires. It takes him actively giving them permission to touch it for them to be able to channel the TP. That's why Semirhage screamed about the DO betraying her when Rand used the TP to destroy the collar and kill her and Elza. She knew that Rand couldn't be using the TP without the DO's express permission.

Now, why did the DO allow Rand to channel the TP? Probably to push him even further off his rocker and give the DO that direct connection to the Light's Champion. We saw how after Rand channeled the TP, reality warped around him (much like it did back in Fal Dara when Rand used the Dark One's name), and later on how there was palpable darkness around Rand. That is from use of the TP and the proximity of the DO's attention. We also note that Rand was especially dark and crazed after channeling the TP, again from the influence of the DO's corruption that Rand flooded himself with while using the TP.

So, can I reply here while I wait for my bio to be approved and CC'd?

Assuming so:

Handle: Phelix

Character: Elin Hawes, incoming novice

Status: Novice waiting for quiz, bio posting, etc.

Boards: I only see the White Tower Classroom when I go to the RP East/White Tower page... but that's it.

EDIT: Still not seeing the other boards, though I have turned in my quiz and OP score.