In case no one mentioned it; the aiel joke "Why do Far Dareis Mai use handlanguage? 'cause they can't stop talking, even when they're not talking". Cracks me up!

Killing the weaver normally doesn't remove Compulsion. Using enough balefire to kill the weaver so that the weaver's thread is removed from the Pattern before the Compulsion is woven, does remove Compulsion.

Example 1: Morgause is still under Compulsion from Rahvin even though Rahvin died of balefire because Rahvin had imposed Compulsion on Morgause many months before Rand balefired Rahvin and Rand's balefire couldn't reach back that far.

Example 2: Balefiring Delana and Halima did remove Ramshalam's Compulsion because Rand could balefire their threads back till a time before the Compulsion was imposed.

 

This issue has been squirreling around in the back of mind for a while now. Please consider the following (and also excuse the lack of specific quotes at the moment):

 

- we've scene evidence that a strong will/sense of self will cause the Compulsee (i.e. Morgase) to struggle against the Compulsion without even being aware they are doing so

 

- over time, at least with a person similar to Morgase, the effects of the Compulsion wane and the person's efforts toward freedom from the weave grow more successful

 

- since Rahvin overcomes Morgase's resistance when she first learns of rebellion in the TR, we know the Compulsor (i.e. Rahvin) can A. tweak the Compulsion (like an AS does to the Warder bond), B. give an existing Compulsion a re-charge or, C. overlay a temporary Compulsion on existing weaves without removing the original Compulsion

 

- realistically, the Compulsor could use the weave to induce an overarching modus operandi from the Compulsee rather than a specific action at a particular point in time - "You will obey me from now on" - and probably happens often

 

 

So, it seems like the death of the Compulsor would at least have some impact on the effectiveness of any particular on-going Compulsion that they had previously woven. Further, the "wording" of any particular Compulsion may render itself moot if the Compulsor dies and the Compulsee is convinced of it. What if Rahvin had lain a specific Compulsion on Nynaeve (just imagine it) to the effect of "meet me in x-days in the throne room of the Caemlyn palace." Two days before the meeting, Nyn sees Rand balefire Rahvin. Will Nyn then be Compulsed to go to the throne room on that day? When the time comes, will she balefire herself to try to "meet" Rahvin? Extending that line of thinking to a pre-mortum Compulsion of "you will obey me" makes me wonder.

 

Those questions intrigue me, discussion/thoughts/counterpoints/answers most welcome.

This is really interesting. It should be in a thread of it's own, though. Not a simple question, not a simple answer.

To sum up what I think about it, I think Compulsion might work somewhat like the Oaths do (as I see the Oaths as some sort of voluntary Compulsion.

In New Spring, Moiraine comforts Siuan by telling her "It will all be all right" or something along these lines. She is surprised that the Oaths would let her say that. Likewise, in Salidar, some Aes Sedai summon Nynaeve (through Nicola, I believe) while saying stuff like "If that girl ain't here within fifteen minutes, I'll peel her hide off". And let's not forget the Aes Sedai, walking into the middle of a battlefield so that they can convince themselves they're in enough danger to use the Power as a weapon.

What's common for all these things is that they show that so some extent, the oaths are compatible with a subjective perspective. As so, I would say Compulsion would be aswell (again, to some extent, and beholden to the person who inflicts the compulsion and his/her/Graendal's level of skill with the weave, somewhat similar to how the wording of the oaths might increase or decrease the importance of subjectivity).

everyone thinking Rand's insane when he's just thinking out loud;

I agree with most of your point, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone refute the point that Rand is clearly insane (pre-VoG).

You know you've read to much WoT when bro-code dictates that all your friends now hate Lan.

So since Rand lost his left hand, does that mean he can only use his right hand for the "arrow of fire" weave? Or will his left stump work just as well?

Channeling does not need the use of physical gestures, it's just something that is commonly done.

Cadsuanne has always eluded my emotions somehow. Like Egwene, she's cool and all but I know I hate her. Rand, he's kind of an ass at times but I know I love her. Cadsuanne.. I just don't know.

The problem with Cadsuanne, is that for me she will always be in the shadow of Moiraine. This might not be completely fair, but as the AS closest to Rand (except perhaps Nynyaeve), she will be compared to Moiriane.

Now, I think it could be argued that had Moiraine went on her little holiday, Rand's personal problems would have been better. But it's also pretty safe to say that Cadsuanne couldn't meet with Rand the way Moiraine did.

Rand hates Aes Sedai. The only one he ever really trusted was Moiraine, and only really towards the end of her life as Rand saw it (he mentions this at some point, but I can't remember when). He was "raped" by Alanna, he was put in a box by Galina and the others, they are always trying to push and manipulate him; hell, he doesn't trust Egwene. So Cadsuanne was in a pressed position. She doesn't act like the other Aes Sedai; neither did Moiraine, and neither does Nynaeve. That's to her credit, she managed what only Moiraine really had been able to do before - knit close bonds to Rand despite being an Aes Sedai.

I like Cadsuanne, but I am really looking forward to Rand meeting Moiraine again. I wonder if he will pick her up and swirl her around. Wouldn't be to out of character now :)

MackoY - I believe that to be so.

Could someone explain to me the nature of Mat having the DO's own luck, and how this is possible?

There is a reasonably solid answer if you check the appendix in ToM under Graendal. As to how, we haven't been told and it is all conjecture

 

ToM Glossary;

 

Graendal:One of the Forsaken. Once known as Kamarile Maradim Nindar, a noted ascetic, she was the

second of the Forsaken to decide to serve the Dark One. A ruthless killer, she was responsible for the

deaths of Aran’gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana. Her present circumstances are

uncertain.

Page

 

Capital "WTF!" Usually, I don't read those, but, WTF!

 

Was it explained how she did it? I don't follow the authors' blogs, so if they said it somewhere I don't know.

Not how. Moridin mentions that Graendal seems to be developing a habit for causing the lives of other Forsaken (ToM prologue, I believe). This is after Aran'gar's demise, and the other Forsaken Graendal could have killed would have been Asmodean.

I am rereading ToM. It's probably been mentioned tons of times, but are there any predominant theories as to who the strange woman Aviendha meets in the Waste is?

Also, from the discussion above - the prophecy about "The two must be as one" - does that need to have anything to do with geography? It can be just "implied" (Aes Sedai'ishly) to refer to the Seanchan/Rand's domain, while actually referring to the two that must be one - Rand and Lews Therin or Rand and Moridin.

Are there any theories as to the nature of the "aiel" in the end of ToM? The "evil" ones in the Blight?

They just make me think of Shara. Can't say why!

Who is Ameresu? I found the name in the thread which questioned whether the Dragon necessarily is male, but I couldn't find any reference as to who this person really is or where the name origins from, neither via the search function nor via google.

Have we ever had a PoV from a Sea Folk character?

I can't think of one, but it seems highly odd that we haven't....

Yes.

Many times I think, top of my head, the only one I can think of is when we learn of the mass suicide on Tremalking

Quick question: I just started my first reread, and I've come to the part where Rand fights Aginor.

What happens here? What's the rope holding Aginor? How come Rand gets teleportet? Does he use the One Power? If so, why can't he see any weaves?

I just don't get this sene at all.

The old man that Mat meets, while fighting the Gholam, and that I really just can't remember the name of.. Olver loves him!

Anyways, is he Jain Farstrider?