On 12/9/2021 at 8:11 PM, Agitel said:

 

I've been a big apologist of the show, but I really think this is unfair. Book purists whined about LotR. Book purists whined about GOT. But not all things are equal. As an apologist for this show I can still admit they are taking quite a broad license with the adaptation, much more than either LotR or GOT, imho. I can certainly imagine something closer that's still far from a page-for-page transcription.

I've been waiting for this since i saw that Red Eagle pilot with Billy Zane. They should've just let Billy Zane redo the pilot and produce the whole show instead of Rafe. This show is so far off from the books that I'm probably not gonna watch them butcher my baby beyond the first season. Stepin was useless melodromatic drivel that served nothing because they didn't tell anyone the bond was done through the one power causing folks to have real questions about all of that. There aren't multiple DR's at the same time. That's absolute utter nonsense. Rafe really doesn't care for the fans even though he swears that he is a die hard fan. He's adding extra stuff into this show when it already exists in the ACTUAL story. That and skipping Caemlyn is a GIANT FREAKING NO-NO for me altogether. A vital part of the story was massively altered and skipped altogether and that doesn't sit well for me because it was a fantastice part of book one.

On 12/9/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sarlic said:

Hi all.  Long time reader, long time lurker.

 

This episode had me scratching my head a bit, and while I like the series so far and will continue, my biggest frustration with it has been the extraordinary amount of "new" storyline added at the expense of necessary background/exposition.  I've read the books more times than I can count, but my wife never has, and she's watching the show to humor me and trying to get into it.  She has tons of - in my view - legitimate questions about things happening in the show that don't have an appropriate amount of background.  Everything tying directly back to the books is very, very rushed, and yet we can spend an entire episode on Stepin.  (And case an point, my wife had no idea the bond between Aes Sedai and Warders was Power-created.  It wasn't sufficiently explained in the show.)

 

I knew going in that 8 episodes a season was going to result in cuts -- but I think they're really whiffing on some major stuff at the expense of unnecessary additions.  The introduction of the Eye of the World, seemly out of nowhere, was just sloppy.  In the books, it was fast, but at least had some foundation in the dreams of Ishamael (which haven't been given their necessary focus, IMHO, and should have just been left out entirely at this point.)  Why is Loial there at all?  No introduction or background on Ogier, and certainly not even a whiff of explanation about his/Ogier connection to the Ways.  Moiraine concealing from Egwene/Perrin that Rand/Mat were in the city, and vice versa....?  Why?  I'm starting to get really frustrated.  Holding out hope tho because there are some really great moments.

 

And we'll see about Mat being left behind, maybe he jumps through at the last minute.

 

Anyway, I'm sticking with it -- but for whatever reason, this episode really irked me - as an avid reader of the books.  I imagine non-book readers would have been far less bothered.

I'm really dispising how they've made Perrin to be just this big dumb idiot. And that everyone in the Tower sleeps with each other all the time. That's not how any of this works. Perrin isn't a big dumb idiot of a human being and only not everyone is banging each other. Yes there are Aes Sedai who are pillow friends but those who are also, find people they love separately and I just don't see them pursuing those relationships in the show that are vital in the books. This show is just becoming one giant miss for me. I've been reading the books since I was in the 6th grade and I'm 40 so....yeah. This isn't the show I asked for AT ALL.

I too am watching the show with my friend Nikki and she's confused half the time and has questions constantly. She's also a fantasy writer and she wonders if they just got a bunch of teens to write the scripts at this point due to how all over the place this show has been with no real continuity at all. As someone who has written in their spare time since high school I have to agree.

Silly question for the day...

what exactly are "small clothes"?   ::)

UNDEROOS! ;D

Why has'nt Egwene's ability to find raw ore been exploited more?

With all the Money troubles she and the Salidar AS were having why not have Egwene power up some gold or silver ore somewhere along the line.

I guess they didn't exploit it more because it got side-tracked by a MASSIVELY important plotline of reuniting the WT.

Paerish Swar, does this help?

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

Week 1 Question: Was the Horn of Valere known and used in the Age of Legends? Or did it only appear in the Third Age?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends. In part, this was because there wasn't any need in an Age that knew universal peace, but also it was because what it could do was considered a sort of myth by most people in that Age. No one who is serious spends time trying to test out whether a myth might be real. (Seen anybody sacrificing a white bull to Jupiter lately?) And once the Dark One touched the world, before the War of the Shadow actually began, the Horn was among the items lost, and thought destroyed, in the first rush of mob violence, terrorism etc. So it wasn't available for use then even had someone wanted to try. It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

In any case, the story of the Horn was carried on through the Age of Legends in the same way that myths are today, and magnified thereafter though the twisting that occurs in the telling and retelling of a story. And believe me, stories about the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies and everything concerned with them were rife during the Breaking. When everything is going to hell around them, people cling to anything and everything that might offer hope. That is how the Breaking could end with tales of the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies already on many peoples' lips.

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 24 October 2005 - Tim Kington reporting

Q: Were the Dragon Banner and the Horn of Valere made at the same time?

RJ: No.

Q: Then why did Hawkwing need Rand to produce the banner at Falme before he could attack?

RJ: Legends change.

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 22 October 1998, Los Angeles - Pam Basham reporting

Q: "Is [the Dragon] soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

RJ: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills.  "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.  In the course of this answer, he related this to why Hawkwing calls Rand "Lews Therin" at Falme--because Hawkwing recognizes this soul.  This didn't really tell me why he specifically calls him "Lews Therin", but apparently they've been hangin' together in Tel'aran'rhiod and the etiquette there is to call each other by the name of your last incarnation.  (My interpretation.)

 

Q: Hawkwing says they follow the banner and the Dragon.  Moiraine says the Heroes will follow whoever winds the Horn.  Was Moiraine wrong?

RJ: Moiraine doesn't know everything.  She was speaking the truth as she knows it. However, she is correct in that whoever sounds the Horn "controls the Heroes." 

Q: "Then what happens if the Dragon and the banner are on opposite sides of the conflict from whoever sounds the Horn?"

RJ:  "Then we get a [rift] in the Pattern."  (I'm not certain if this is the exact word he used.  It may have been "schism" or "breach," but it was definitely a word expressing the concept of a forced opening/rupture.)

More at http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

research for the win! thanks yoniy. ;D

Why is LTT called Dragon and Rand Dragon Reborn when clearly the same Dragon soul was used even before LTT? Or have I misunderstood how that works?

I think Lews Therin was called the Dragon because they didn't have any prophecies regarding the Dragon's soul being reborn, like they did in the 3rd Age with Rand. And whose to say the soul has always been referenced to as the Dragon?

Remember there have been MANY turnings of the Wheel and Ages galore have come and gone. The Dragon may not have been reffered to the Dragon in previous incarnations.

Are there sports in Randland?

I mean, other than swordplay, archery, horse raceing, and quarterstaff contests..

We know gambling exsists.

theres wrestling, hawking, riding, and I am sure there are others. Like we have heard of bowls and stones and such

not to mention the sports that were in the AoL.

Maybe it's just my poor memory...

 

when and why did Rand stop using the sword of fire?

 

That is a good point. I think it was after his captivity in book 6.

 

CoS - Shadar Logoth, when he's chasing Sammael and runs into a bunch of trollocs.

That's the last occasion I can remember.

 

 

An even then he was hesitant to use it due to the attention it bring on him from Mashadar.

 

do you guys think that there was further reason behind him stopping?  by stopping were there ramifications?  or is it really unimportant?

Only that he doesn't need to use it any more. He has more efficient ways of killing with the OP now.

Maybe it's just my poor memory...

 

when and why did Rand stop using the sword of fire?

 

That is a good point. I think it was after his captivity in book 6.

 

CoS - Shadar Logoth, when he's chasing Sammael and runs into a bunch of trollocs.

That's the last occasion I can remember.

 

An even then he was hesitant to use it due to the attention it bring on him from Mashadar.

Maybe it's just my poor memory...

 

when and why did Rand stop using the sword of fire?

That is a good point. I think it was after his captivity in book 6.

...and the entire basis for this theory is that she's thirsty for power?  You could say the same of all the Forsaken, so why the fixation on Lanfear?

 

Because Lanfear is the one Forsaken that we really know the personality and background of. Well, relatively, at least. We know that she has always been obsessed with power. It's a bit sexist, but I guess men are almost expected to want to have absolute power, so from a woman it's... weirder. More note-worthy.

 

Anyways, I just think that Lanfear has some sort of weave or charm that makes her THE MOST ASTOUNDINGLY GORGEOUS AND FANTASTICALLY STUNNING WOMAN EVER, or distorts how people see her-- almost like the Mask of Mirrors. Clearly she was always beautiful, but her current level of beauty doesn't seem naturally possible.  ::)

 

But it is. She was considered that beautiful before she turned to the Shadow. She was with the most accomplished man ever in the AoL before he left her because of her obsession with Power. She was considered probably the most Beautiful woman of any age. Remember when she lets go of the Selene disguise how she appeared to Rand. And how he needed to close his mouth after words. I believe that she's naturally beautiful, because she took pride in her appearance. Not on the level Graendal did, but still vain none the less. I believe she does wear ter'angreal but not for her looks.

 

Perhaps. We know she's obsessed with power, though, and awing men with her looks seems to be a really easy way to control them.

Eh, nothing really to back it up, just a feeling.

 

You're right.  There's nothing at all backing this up. 

 

"OMG she's pretty! Cheater!"

"SHE'S A WITCH! BURN HER!" - random villagers from Monty Python and The Holy Grail

...and the entire basis for this theory is that she's thirsty for power?  You could say the same of all the Forsaken, so why the fixation on Lanfear?

 

Because Lanfear is the one Forsaken that we really know the personality and background of. Well, relatively, at least. We know that she has always been obsessed with power. It's a bit sexist, but I guess men are almost expected to want to have absolute power, so from a woman it's... weirder. More note-worthy.

 

Anyways, I just think that Lanfear has some sort of weave or charm that makes her THE MOST ASTOUNDINGLY GORGEOUS AND FANTASTICALLY STUNNING WOMAN EVER, or distorts how people see her-- almost like the Mask of Mirrors. Clearly she was always beautiful, but her current level of beauty doesn't seem naturally possible.  ::)

But it is. She was considered that beautiful before she turned to the Shadow. She was with the most accomplished man ever in the AoL before he left her because of her obsession with Power. She was considered probably the most Beautiful woman of any age. Remember when she lets go of the Selene disguise how she appeared to Rand. And how he needed to close his mouth after words. I believe that she's naturally beautiful, because she took pride in her appearance. Not on the level Graendal did, but still vain none the less. I believe she does wear ter'angreal but not for her looks.

I'd also like to point out that even after healing Cyndane is still stronger than Graendel, which proves another point she was the second strongest Forsaken next to Ishamael.

 

Well, depending on how you interpret relative male/female strength levels, but that's a different debate entirely, and it's been going on for a long time.  The truth is that there isn't a resolution to it since RJ says the Forsaken themselves aren't always reliable for judging relative strengths.  See: Rah'vin.

This is true, considering Rahvin was a self-centered ass. He valued himself over all the others. He deemed his political ability to be above all others. And we know for a fact the Chosen really detest one another. So some of the things we hear from them can only be taken with a grain of salt.

Did Egwene visit Verin's room sometime after Egwene's return to White Tower or is that yet to come?

Were the rooms of Blacks searched after the executions or is that also yet to come?

 

I don't think it's happened yet. Remember these events just took place with the cleansing of the BA from the Tower and the learning of Verin's secret.

Lanfear put a lot of women to shame in regards to looks. She can get any guy to do anything for her just by using her 'assets'. Rand had said he thought Morgase was beautiful until he met Lanfear face to face when she dropped her Selene disguise. She could manipulate any man with just her looks.

I don't think that about Lanfear, and her using the power to enhance her looks. She has been described as one of the most beautiful women of any age. Not needing the power to transfix men's attention to her.

People have speculated that Aviendha becomes (became?) a Wise One when SHE decides that her apprenticeship is over. 

 

I wondered, though, because if I recall correctly a Wise One has to enter Rhuidien two times; once to go through the rings and another time to do something else (revisit the history of the Aiel as Rand did?).  Is the second visit moot now that Rand revealed that information, or is the experience of living her ancestors still important to her gaining the title Wise One?

the wise ones think it is important, they sent her backto rhuiden

 

Each Wiseone must enter Rhuiden Twice first at the completion of her apprenticeship  and one other time not sure when. Aviendha was escorted to the traveling ground by Amys and given instruction on what she must do.

She enters the Ringed ter'angreal the first ime for her apprenticeship, and then once her training is over when she deems it over, she must go to Rhuidean a second time for the remembrance of what was. This second time is important because of what the Jenn Aiel said to those equivalent to modern Aiel. Only those who go to Rhuidean to face their ancestry and survive can lead the Aiel.

Masema's POV tells that Rand visited him.  I suspect that was an impostor, is this correct?

If so, who actually came?  I would guess either Moridin or Demandred.

 

It was more likely Demandred doing the DO's bidding by sowing chaos amongst the the DR's followers. Moridin has been consumed with other things in regards to prepping the Shadow for TG. Demandred has had his hands in a lot of things.

Will Rand have all of Lews Therin Telamon memories and abilities now?

As far as we know, the LTT voice inside of Rand's head feeding him info, was a manifestation of his interaction with the taint. It just so happened it was also helping him cope with those past memories flowing into his brain. With him merging his personalities, he still should have those memories from LTT available to him. They just won't come to him in the form of that voice inside his head. With those memories will come new findings in the OP that he can use. He's still learning despite how far he's come along in the series. Memories of weaves will just randomly happen when certain situations arise, and are needed. That's my opinion though. It's a theory.

maybe, though, trollocs (& fades?) cannot go through gateways.  I think the fact that a gholam is a construct would kill it when trying to pass through.

In that case, I guess one way to kill a gholam would be to lure it into unstoppable forward momentum, then open a gateway right ahead.

I would imagine that would work seeing as he is shadowspawn.

How are steddings created?

As far as we know, and there are many theories in regards to this subject, the Steddings have been around for Ages. They may be from another world. Let me put it this way. The Ogier are now arguing about using the "Book of Translation" which is maybe a ter'angreal(this is not canon) that will transport the Ogier race to a more peaceful world. It is said that the Fourth Age can't properly start until this happens. If this is true, then we MIGHT be able to assume the Ogier may be from another planet even. With this info, one would say the Stedding may be from another world. One which the Ogier originated from possibly. I don't think the Steddings were created, IMO. But the subject of how are Steddings are created is very up in the air because we have absolutely no info on Steddings except for the basic abilities they have in Randland. Sorry about the long winded post.

The fact that you can't reach a Stedding in T'A'R, may lead to it not being of this world.

If the bubbles of evil are the Dark One touching the World, does this mean that when the Seals fail he will be able to generate more of them? Has it been mentioned whether they occurred at all before the Seals were in place during the Age of Legends.

I would imagine they would, because there wasn't even a seal in place. If they are happening with just like 1 or 2 seals in place for this time period, i would imagine the AoL were seeing much more terrible bubbles than what we're seeing now in the books.

Sorry if someone mentioned this already, but i did not read all 15 pages of this topic.

 

I am currently re-reading the WoT (third time) and i am on The Shadow Rising, in it Rand learns about his heritage etc etc. In it he realizes that he DOES have an older half-brother. However i have not read anywhere else in the books that he knows it is Galad, he just sort of lost interest after he realized that he had a half-brother

He is well aware that Galad is his half brother. He became well versed in Andoran Royalty and the bloodlines that go with it. I think he wanted to make sure his union with Elayne was clean. He also did it to see who his mother really was. Especially when other Andoran nobles started speaking of Tigraine.

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond – Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond – Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

I was just meaning in regards to the "death of" side effects. I know that channelers have differing abilities in the bond than non-channelers.

Rand wouldn't need to be healed if Alanna were to kick the bucket. Why? He has a seperate warder bond with his 3 ladies. There wouldn't need to be an worry because he's still bonded.

Is there even any evidence that the warder bond (when broken) does affect men who can channel in the same way as a normal warder?

 

I know we've had a few channelling bondees die (such as Eben), but I can't think of any bonders kicking the bucket and leaving their other half alive...

 

Am I forgetting something?

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.