My points of criticism are pretty much the same as those of most here I think.

The inexplicable absence of a majority of channellers especially WO and Asha'man, whatever genius possessed Egwene and the Hall from commanding a thousand beginning channellers from helping on the battlefield.

The disappearance of about 200k Aiel who should have been far more effective than all the armies of the Westlands other than the Seanchan combined.

The tactics which were really all over the place.

Graendal's immortality cheat- I mean really how many times did she barely escape from a surprise attack?

Demandred being challenged to a swordfight three times as the utter height of stupidity.

Egwene shouldn't have married Gawyn. When I read that oneliner telling us that the two of them had married I just knew they would both. XD

Gawyn was a given since like all the other Trakands he's pathologically suicidal and thus was always living on borrowed time. That said Egwene totally died the death of a Sue. As I read I was running out of fingers for all the indicators.

As someone who never liked Egwene this didn't bother me all that much, but I think all of you who truly liked her character have reason to be disappointed.

Other than that, yeah Egwene was all over the place in the book, curiously it seemed to me as BS got better at writing Mat he got worse at writing Egwene.

As for the Aes Sedai and the female channellers as a whole where were so many of them? I thought there were several hundred windfinders and over a thousand Wise Ones, why did we only see a few dozen of them? And what sort of madness possessed Egwene and the Hall to send all their novices and Accepted to Mayene and not recall them when they found themselves outnumbered against the Sharans all the time?

I've misinterpeted? No idea why you think that article is old as its been revised after the latest releases. Elayne has the troops, she has the channelers, if you disagree I'm going to need more than opinion, please quote where you get your info.

 

Elaynes army is solid troops from the noble houses supplemented by half trained levies. That is the army that Andor can always pull together. If she calls the banners they come(especially for something like a province breaking away), thats how it works. You cant just argue she would lose because they wont fight, or that she might lose more during TG, that's absurd. In fact the "only gathered for TG" argument works far more for Perrin's troops than it does for Andor's national army.

 

Perrin has well trained peasants supplemented by peasants with little to no training and again he likely has less than half the troops. Ill be happy to listen if you can start citing quotes to back your opinion. For the sake of argument, say even best case scenario with your guess at his numbers is true, Elayne still half again the larger force and more channelers. That hardly leaves her with no way to enforce things as you originally stated. I view it in a similar manner as the Andoran nobles threatening Rand if he didn't leave the country. Would Rand have won eventually? Yes of course but it would have been a tough victory. The situation here is slightly similar. That is however far from not being able to enforce her power as Queen.

 

As Mr Ares said...

 

Andor's army is a core of trained soldiers supplemented by peasant levies. Perrin's army is a core of peasant levies supplemented by further peasant levies. Elayne also has more soldiers and levies.

I find it hilarious that you try to present them as some crack fighting force now when they are for the most part refugees with very limited training.

I don't disagree about the number of Elayne's troops or her channellers, but as I said Perrin has channellers as well so both armies can Travel. And since none of Elayne's channellers either can or will involve themselves in such a petty war their superiority in numbers won't have any effect on the actual battlefield. I for one don't see the Kin involve themselves in such a dispute. Why would they fight? Perrin isn't attacking them or even Andor, he is no darkfriend and it's not as if he was likely to order his channellers to fight.

As for Elayne's solid troops your numbers are ridiculous. There are somewhere around 10k to 20k Queen's guards according to the numbers I've seen in the fandom and in the books and perhaps as many capable armsmen. Don't forget that before Rand left the 2R 5k was considered quite a large army. The levies as you call them are just drafted peasants who were given a spear or a bow and that's basically it. They make up the bulk of the 150k. And unlike Perrin's peasants they don't have accellerated training due to the ta'veren effect so probably they are worse than Perrin's. I don't make them out to be crack troops. I say Perrin's rabble is better than Elayne's rabble. Oh and by the way many of Perrin's troops are also former armsmen and mercenaries which roughly puts those on the same level as Elayne's armsmen and mercenaries.

What I find hilarious is your lack of reading comprehension. I quite explicitly name quite a few reasons why Elayne can't afford to go to war with Perrin and all you focus on is Elayne's numerical superiority:

1. The fact that to overcome Perrin would cost her half her force atleast. If she could at all since the Pattern (you remember what that is?) pretty much cheats when it comes to ta'veren
2. the fact that the Houses who make up more than half of her army wouldn't support her in such a war, because there would be no gain to them only losses
3. the fact that with Perrin being the liegelord to Ghealdan and closely related to Saldaea through marriage the conflict would likely escalate
4. the fact that the bonds between Andor and Cairhien are still unstable
5. the fact that Elayne can't just lose half her army when the Seanchan are waiting to pounce on any opportunity
6. and the fact that Elayne can't fight Perrin when the Last Battle is in the offing

Ok, have it your way if Elayne was a complete and utter moron she could have defeated Perrin. Well, that victory would have destroyed Andor within a year probably, but yeah she would have enforced that the 2R didn't secede. Man, what a genius that Elayne would have been.

WOT Military Round Up

 

Perrin

It consists of three to four thousand Two Rivers bowmen (Knife of Dreams, The Last Knot), close to nine hundred Mayener Winged Guards (The Path of Daggers, A Simple Country Woman), and close to a thousand Ghealdan Lancers (Winter’s Heart, The Scent of Madness). There were some Aiel Maidens, six Wise Ones, three Aes Sedai, and two Asha’man with Perrin. At least some of the Aiel with Perrin apparently left this group to join the clans in Arad Doman (and are probably now in Tear). A hundred thousand refugees are also with Perrin.

So basically Perrin has a small armed force amounting to almost 2,000 troops, a force of 4000 fairly well trained 2Rs peasants, and a 100,000 rabble made up of men, women and children of which we have no idea how many can fight.

 

Meanwhile Andor has the single largest army of any Westland nation at 150,000 troops which have been pulled together and is ready to go:

 

The state of the Succession and the siege of Caemlyn triggered most Andoran houses into mobilizing their forces, thus leading to a highly militarized state. Therefore Elayne’s success in claiming the throne has in effect unified most of Andor’s strength, and the army is prepared for action.

In addition she has the channeler advantage for troop and supply movement. She has quite a bit at her disposal to enforce things.

 

Your data is dated and you misinterpret what you have. All that stuff refers to KoD, TPOD and WH. You can ignore it in favor of what we saw in TGS and TOM. Perrin send away most of the infirm and kept only those who were able to fight, many who were mercenaries and those have been learning at a unbelievably fast pace courtesy to his ta'veren effect. He also has channellers in his army who can travel so Elayne has no advantage in this regard. Elayne's 150k consist out of 120k+ who are as bad or worse than the ones Perrin has picked up and they were gathered for the purpose of facing the DO not the 2 Rivers. She can't afford to use that army against the Two Rivers and she knows it. If she chose to fight at best half her army would survive, since Perrin seems to be quite good at battles plus he has the advantage of being ta'veren. It's unlikely the Pattern would allow him to lose.

After TG what is left of Elayne's army will disperse again while I think it's reasonable to assume that most of Perrin's survivors will end up in the Two Rivers as new settlers, because a ta'veren can't walk into a forest without stumbling over a pot of gold. Perrin will probably come out even stronger after TG than he is now. And when Elayne tries to call her army together again really how likely is it that the Houses would be willing to lose so many of their troops to the Two Rivers when there is no gain for them. Elayne herself has remarked several times how independant Andorans can be, I would expect most of the Houses to effectively flip Elayne the bird if she demanded of them to invade the 2 Rivers and likely lose half of their armsmen for free.

Agree with most of it aside from Elayne not having power to enforce anything. That's is abolutely not true.

I'm really curious how Elayne could have enforced anything if Perrin had said he was going to secede along with the entire Two Rivers or simply continued to ignore her?

Perrin on his own has some 70k soldiers in his army I believe plus he's the liegelord of Alliandre and by marriage close kin to the throne of Saldaea. How many of her forces could Elayne have mobilized against the Two Rivers? I don't think the other houses would have willingly marched against that sort of army for a piece of land most of them hadn't even heard of or known that it was in Andor. Especially considering all the strains Elayne knew she was going to have to work under. Preparing for TG, solidifying the link between Andor and Cairhien, keeping on guard against the Seanchan.

That rules pretty much war out of the equation. She couldn't do a trade embargo either. For one the Two Rivers doesn't depend on trade from Andor and with the recent influx of people it's only a matter of time until someone decides to built a road to Jehannah or builts a proper harbor on the Manetherendrelle. Besides she doesn't have the political clout to pull off isolating Perrin.

So war is out and trade is out what other tools would Elayne have at her disposal?

Morgase was speaking the absolute truth when she warned Elayne that she could break Andor on the Two Rivers. Perrin could have easily presented Elayne with a fait accompli and she couldn't have done anything other than swallowing it because it just wasn't worth the risk.

@b3arz3rg3r - Agree that Rand will lose Illian. He has united Andor/Carhien (through Elayne), but she has yet to fully Ally with Tear... or is Tear considered South (In wich case, he loses it, too)? If that is the case, North/East are now bonded through Faile (possibly) being Queen of Saldaea, and swearing to marry her children to Elayne's. (she did do that, right? or am I remembering wrong?) Granted, Rand didn't do that, but he set the stage for it all to happen... vague prophecies be damned! :)

I've theorized that the prophecy meant that the Borderlanders, Arad Doman and the Aiel plus the Aes Sedai- the North and the East- would fight at the Blight while the Seanchan, Illianers and Tairen would deal with the southern incursion. That leaves pretty much only Elayne's forces unaccounted for and I guess she will send part of hers with Rand and have the rest operate within Andor independantly from whatever southern Alliance may be under Seanchan control. I don't think Elayne and the Seanchan can work together the institution of damane is too big a hurdle to overcome. Illianers and Tairen on the other hand shouldn't find it hard to work with the Seanchan. Darlin would see the necessity and I remember someone saying that Illian would follow the DO itself if it walked into town with the Horn.

As for that contract between Perrin, Faile and Elayne. Elayne demanded that should Faile ever inherit Saldaea her and Perrin's children would split the inheritence and that one of their children should marry one of hers. Meaning one child would get Saldaea and the other the Two Rivers. And Perrin the laughable doormat that he is agreed to all of it except the marriage contract when Elayne basically had zero power to enforce anything. Well, he didn't get dumbed down any worse than Mat did when he negotiated with Elayne. But it's always been that way in WOT negotiations. One side loses temporarily control over their mental faculties and they agree to whatever nonsense the other side demands.

@b3arz3rg3r

 

Isn't the King of Illian sitting in Tar Valon at the moment, I always assumed that he'd go back to being in control? I don't think there was evidence of him being bad as such, just having a few Forsaken problems :)

As I recall while Elaida believed that she could reinstate him Mattin Stepaneos had given up on Illian. Legally Rand is the king of Illian and I doubt the Illianers will take their former king back even when Rand abdicates. The Council of Nine seem to be rather ambitious to me and they wouldn't overlook the possibility of increasing their own personal power by getting rid of the institution of a king if it was possible.

Besides I don't think Mattin is up to it anyways. The world after the Last Battle will be significantly different. There will be two to four superpowers in the Westlands: The Seanchan, Andor/Cairhien, the Aiel- should they settle in the Westlands as a nation- and perhaps Saldaea/Two Rivers/Ghealdan should Faile end up being the Queen of Saldaea. I have my doubts that Mattin could hold on to Illian in that new world.

So Mats situation at the moment:

 

At the end of ToM he was chilling out by the river with plans to head to the White Tower (told Joline(?) that he had something he needed to collect), Caemlyn (to pick up the Band.  We don't know if he makes it back to Caemlyn, but I assume he did (and from there to FoM) and decided to head to Ebou Dar, to visit Tuon instead (maybe as a result of Avis vision?). 

 

Tuon is currently planning a second strike on the Tower, it's possible that Mat will manage to dissuade her of this.  Against this Egs vision had 2 ravens flying past, and the Tower apparantly split and divided - it's been speculated that this means 2 attacks and that the second will splinter the Tower - I'm not sure of this interpretation.

 

 

 

A small white plinth stood centered in that circle, supporting an oil-lamp made of clear glass. The flame on that lamp burned bright and steady, without flickering. It was white too. Suddenly a pair of birds flashed out of the mist, two ravens black as night. Streaking across the spire-top, they struck the lamp and flew on without so much as a pause. The lamp spun and wobbled, dancing around atop the plinth, flinging off droplets of oil. Some of those drops caught fire in mid-air and vanished. Others fell around the short column, each supporting a tiny, flickering white flame. And the lamp continued to wobble on the edge of falling

 

 

 

So either way, in Mats first chapter he's in Ebou Dar.  He still needs to go to the WT.  On top of this, does he need to go to Illian?  All the prophecies to do with the Horn associate it with Illian, so even if that's wrong, does the fact that Mat believes it mean that he's heading to Illian?  If he does head there will it be on his own, or with the Seanchan - I think the Band are now tied up with Caemlyn until after TG, or unless he can convince Elayne to allow this.

 

Their's also Mins first vision tying the group that left the 2R and possibly/probbaly Elayne together.  My speculation is that this group needs to be present at the Bore during the successful sealing/healing/shutting away...  There have been a lot of people that are necessary to the overall victory of the Light, why would this group in particular be tied to Rand?  Although I do accept that the more likely (and easier) interpretation is just that they're all necessary to the Shadow.

 

So, my list of Mats travelogue in aMoL:

Caemlyn/Fields of Mellior

Ebou Dar

White Tower

Illian(?)

TG and/or SG/bore/ wherever Rand is.

 

Compared to the others who all seem to be in position to move from FoM to TG it seems like a lot of places (and time), especially considering that the Chapter 9 excerpt he doesn't seem in much of a hurry.  Maybe Eg brought the Horn with her?  That essentially means Mat has to go to Ebou Dar then wherever Rand needs him (assuming it's possible to ignore Illian).

 

Anything I've missed, conclusions/assumptions you disagree with? 

 

Cheers

 

So anyway

About Illian. Rand is unlikely to keep the crown of Illian and there doesn't seem to be a capable replacement like Darlin in the wings. I've been thinking for quite a while that Rand might cede Illian to the Seanchan as part of his negotiations with them. That would be well in line with that prophecy of tying the south and west together. Mat is probably the only one who could make a bargain on Rand's behalf with the Seanchan.

Also Illian could be the staging point for the southern counter offensive Mat will lead. The forces of the light are effectively cut in half. One half will go with Rand and fight at the Blight and the other half will deal with the southern incursion which starts in Caemlyn and probably spreads across Murandy and various uninhabited stretches of land where Trolloc hordes may have gathered.

This is what happens when your parents are your publisher. Had Paolini gotten a string of rejections first like most other authors he might actually have ended up writing something decent.

I think it's right to say that for Rand Egwene is a typical ex-girlfriend. She never really was his friend, she was a former love interest, although I suspect a large part of Rand's feelings for her came from his strong sense of duty. Back in the TR he liked her and she was good looking and since it was kind of expected for them to marry he started to care for her more deeply because that's the duty of a good husband.

That's why he sees her as an old flame, he still carries the memories of his feelings for her, and that makes her more than just an acquaintance, she's someone he respects, but the lack of trust he has for her prevents him from regarding her as a friend.

As for Egwene, she doesn't share the same sort of sentimentality and unlike Rand who has just relearned to put the actual people first and not abstract concepts like institutions or nations for Egwene puts the good of the abstract before the good of the people. That's why her view of him is a lot harsher than his of her.

Yeah, that letter was truly clumsy on BS part. The spelling errors were completely unnecessary. It's one of the bad parts which sadly for many overshadow the good ones.

Yeah Mat's voice is different, but overall I don't think Mat has changed for the worse with BS. I admit I was put off a bit in TGS, but by now I realize that Mat's portrayal aside from a few bad jokes has become more suitable to the young man that he actually is. The Mat BS is writing is more like the one the others in the story describe him as. A lighthearted and somewhat carefree young man with plenty of rough edges and who likes to fool around when there's an opportunity, but who is steadfast and reliable when it counts. He isn't like Perrin who was always so serious he could just as easily have been a decade older than he actually was or Rand who has been aged prematurely by his burdens and by his assimilation of LTT.