Hi Everybody. I've been a fan of The Wheel of Time since it started...and I've lurked at Dragonmount off and on over the years. Other than in the 4th Age threads...this is my first post here in these forums.

 

I've been listening to Towers of Midnight on Audible.com and this has been bugging me since I heard it.

 

When Perrin is at his trial...he reveals that not only has the Horn Of Valere been found, but it has been sounded. No one reacts to this...not even a gasp from the on-lookers.

 

When did it become common knowledge about the HoV? Shouldn't someone have reacted? An eyebrow raised? A start from his chair? A gasp from the crowd?

 

Did I miss something here?

As I recall, the news that the HoV had been sounded and the Heroes had fought at Falme became common knowledge through the standard rumor mill. Our heroes often avoided discussing it to avoid suspicion that they were involved. But people have been spreading that news for almost 2 years.

BS said that? Check with him about that, it doesn't seem like it could be right, he may have gotten the timeline mixed up himself.

I remember there being discussion of that, that BS did mess up the timings a bit during an interview at least, and perhaps in tGS. I seem to recall a comment that they didn't discover the problem in time to fix it in tGS 1st run paperbacks.

is birgitte with a sword normal? i thought she said everytime she never carries a sword

I think she actually said something about wearing /using a sword leading to disaster in every lifetime.

Page 354 - Birgitte wears a sword. Didn't she say in an earlier book that every time she'd picked up a sword in a previous life, she'd ended up dead?

 

That really pissed me off. RJ would never have Birgitte wear a sword. Ever. Ever. Ever.

 

More likely a dagger or cudgel or possibly even a short sword or hand axe. But never a sword. Never.

 

Never ever.

In her thoughts, Birgitte comments about how she was carrying a sword instead of a bow because she might have to fight in close quarters in the palace halls. It really should have been a pair of knives or something. It was when she was leaving the play/opera to deal with the disturbance at the Plum Gate, aka Mat.

One thing I noticed, but I've changed my opinion from thinking it's an error to good attention to detail. Aludra calls Birgitte "Maerion" on page 466. I'd forgotten that for the short time Birgitte was with the circus, that's the name she was using. I do find it a little odd that Aludra wouldn't have known that everyone was calling her Birgitte in Caemlyn. Most characters seem to be alert to and respectful of name changes.

So, a couple of pages back someone asked about what Moiraine couldn't think of when visiting with Vandene & Adeleas in tGH.  It might help if you quoted more from that conversation.  I remember at the time I thought it had something to do with the events at Falme.  I don't know where my copy is right now to look up that conversation.

Are we sure the Seanchan beasties aren't shadowspawn?

I know the first reaction is ACK SHADOWSPAWN.  And then someone familiar with Seanchan are like no, WORSE, Seanchan! 

But, i have to wonder, is it possible that the critters are shadowspawn, just domesticated?

I too suspect that cuendillar made by men is black. I'm trying to remember if we have any examples of cuendillar in a color other than black or white. I don't think so...

 

 

I would say probably.  The seals were almost certainly made at the time of the sealing which would mean that men made them and they are black and white.

 

They may have been made by men and women as they are not the actual seal, but a focus for the seal so they could have been made by men and women prior to the strike and then when LTT sealed the bore brought into the equation.

IIRC, the Seals were made with the intention that women would join the sealing party.  After the seals were made came the disagreement on seals vs CK. When the access keys were lost, LTT thought he could convince them to go back to plan A.  The women refused and the men attempted it alone. 

But originally, the seals were probably made in a male-female circle.

I can see that.  However, Shalon's POV seems to indicate that the Source can't even be sensed.  I don't recall any mention from Rand's POV of being able to sense but unable to touch the Source. 

I'm on WH in my reread, with Cadsuane in Far Madding. 

While they're in the Dome with the Guardian, a man channels.  Cadsuane casually asks if there have been a lot of men channeling in the area lately.  Shalon thinks that the channeling explains where Jahar went after they arrived.  But that made me wonder, did Cadsuane have a male well for Jahar to use? Furthermore Cadsuane flips out on Nyn for using her well because it exposed to the Counsels that the Guardian was less effective than they thought.  But, from the incident with Jahar, they should already know that.

Question:  Do we know when Graendal was in the Tower and/or what she did there?

I was rereading and somewhere in aCoS Alviarin thinks on having met 3 of the Forsaken - Lanfear, Graendal and Mesaana.

However, Myrelle who leads the Salidar group has at least one warder who isn't with her (Lan). Since he hasn't gone mad or killed himself, there's some reason to assume that the Salidar group is still (relatively) unharmed.

Other Salidar sisters may also have warders.

Presumably this will be resolved and explained in the Towers of Midnight.

We have no info on Lan that could steer us either way so Lan beeing bonded to Myrelle doesn't mean anything. An other sister's warders are probably with them.

So ok, we don't know. That's as good an answer as any. THanks for your quick answer.

 

We do have some negative information on Lan, I think. Nynaeve is likely to be quietly watching his move towards Tarwin's Gap without letting him know - she does discuss his ETA with Rand.

 

I thought the ETA was based on estimating his travel time from where she left him off.  I didn't see an indication that she was tracking him in any way.

maybe, though, trollocs (& fades?) cannot go through gateways.  I think the fact that a gholam is a construct would kill it when trying to pass through.

I think if Mat were to walk through the edge of a gateway, or be standing in the middle of it as it closed/opened, it would disrupt the weaves.  The gateway weaves are around the person walking through the opening.  As long as he didn't try to touch the edge, he should be fine.

The medallion probably would get cold though from standard proximity reactions. It doesn't only go cold when disrupting a weave.

I seem to recall Perrin having foretelling "dreams" as well when he wanders around TAR. He looks up in the sky and there's a window that shows him stuff going on with our other characters.  I suppose that could be some sort of early manifestation of the color ta'veren vision, but I'm not sure.  I never pay enough attention to the timelines so I'm not sure if Perrin's windows were present or future visions.

 

Or I could be misremembering.  And here I thought I'd be all sharp with this stuff since I just did a reread.

 

Those visions aren't foretellings, but glimmers of the present in the pattern. Him being a wolfbrother doesn't make him a dreamer or a dreamwalker. Dreamers foretell, he doesn't do that. Dreamwalkers have complete control and knowledge of T'A'R. He doesn't.

 

I just finished tSR and something I noticed made me think back to this exchange.  When Perrin is going around the TR trying to figure out how many Trollocs are in the area, he has two foretelling visions.

Edited to be more specific:

tSR, The Price of a Departure, p882 paperback

As he scanned for the birds, a patch of sky darkened, became a window to somewhere else.  Egwene stood among a crowd of women, fear in her eyes; slowly the women knelt around her.  Nynaeve was one of them, and he believed he saw Elayne's red-gold hair.  That window faded and was replaced.  Mat stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear with a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind his elbows, and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his chest.  Mat vanished, and it was Rand.  Perrin thought it was Rand.  He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.  The third window disappeared; the sky was only sky, empty except for the clouds.

I seem to recall Rand thinking about how the handkerchief trick didn't work for him or Min. He thought that might be why Avi was avoiding him, because he had failed to mask what he was doing with Min. 

 

Well, we know Min can't mask her bond with Rand, but as I explained above, that's irrelevant. As to Rand and Aviendha, I don't remember anything of the sort, but even if that were so, that's immaterial as well - Rand is the bondee and Aviendha the bonder, so of course he can't mask the bond with her.

I see your point, but that reminded me of Elyas.  Couldn't he mask his bond? 

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond – Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond – Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

 

I don't see what the masking have to do with changes that occur for channeling bondees (Rand can, Birgitte can't, and both bonds work the same way in that regard - the bonder can mask the bond. As long as he/she can channel themselves, that is).

One other thing - consider that we only saw Alanna trying to control Rand WHILE he was actively channeling. I saw it discussed somewhere that this fact might have been key, i.e. that it isn't his ability to channel that was at work there.

I seem to recall Rand thinking about how the handkerchief trick didn't work for him or Min. He thought that might be why Avi was avoiding him, because he had failed to mask what he was doing with Min. 

Do we know if Bair specifically has had any foretelling dreams?  I don't remember the WO ever saying who had what dream. 

I seem to recall Perrin having foretelling "dreams" as well when he wanders around TAR. He looks up in the sky and there's a window that shows him stuff going on with our other characters.  I suppose that could be some sort of early manifestation of the color ta'veren vision, but I'm not sure.  I never pay enough attention to the timelines so I'm not sure if Perrin's windows were present or future visions.

Or I could be misremembering.  And here I thought I'd be all sharp with this stuff since I just did a reread.

Birgitte was limited in what she could do because she lived there as a Hero and wasn't visiting like Nyn, Eggy and Moggy.

Perrin is a dreamer too, btw.