Hi

[viking]

i have read the 10 first books inn the wheel of time series and i most say i really like them even if some of the later books are not as good as the first ones

 

but ther is one thing that kinda does not seem rigth to me, it is said many times that 2 river folks are stubborn and will not be forced inn to doing anything or doing anything but they migth follow folks they find wordy

 

but as i see it all the 3 main male chars seem to be nothing but hounded inn to doing thing buy oter folks primeraly female chars personaly i think that at times gives the impression that they lack both stubbornes and charcter strength that they are suppose to have as ta`veren or at least that is what i interpeted ta`veren as meaning one that formes the world aound himself

and well you can`t form the world around you if you constently get hounded around by oter folks.

 

so i guess what i`m trying to say i that i think Mat Rand and Perrin needs to show more leadership qualites.

 

what do you folks think ?

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Not sure I agree with you there Viking.

 

*SPOILERS*

Rand has repeatedly stood up to Aes Sedai and gone his own way, starting from when he went with the Aiel and sent the Tairen army into Carihien instead of Illian like Moiraine wanted. He's had Aes Sedai swear fealty to him and to obey him alone, plus he's constantly refused help from people from his simple pig-headedness. And remember, Aes Sedai are women who can get kings and queens to obey them.

Perrin turned aside from his main quest and very, very stubbornly pursued the Shaido who kidnapped his wife. He displayed leadership qualities enough to unite the two rivers, drive off a huge Trolloc invasion and kick out the White Cloaks. I think that the only person who really bosses Perrin around is Rand, but Perrin does that by choice because he long ago figured out that one of his purposes was to help Rand.

Mat forcefully commands the Band of the Red Hand, and his commands and tactics are especially obvious in book 11. True, that's not strictly leadership qualities, but I doubt that he could have command of a force of experienced fighters like he has without him showing leadership capabilities. He especially seems to like annoying Aes Sedai, and often goes against there wishes - again remember just who Aes Sedai are and the sort of political power they wield, it takes a strong person to stand up to that.

 

I think that the problem is that we often see things from the perspective of Rand, Perrin and Mat, and so are shown their inner doubts and reluctance. I think that's why you have the impression of them as weak and not displaying leadership traits, because their inner conflicts are revealed. If you just look at their actions and leave aside what you see going on inside their heads you'll see just how strong they are - the fact that they were able to overcome these inner conflicts and still do what was needed makes them even stronger to the reader, not weaker.

[Guest Karana Majin]

Hi, viking! Nice to meet you. I feel this will be better received on the WoT Discussion Board, so I'll be moving it there in a bit (hopefully after you've seen this and don't think your thread just disappeared.)