Manetheren Redux (and a bit more)!!! (Book spoilers 1-7)

[Ogier Jr.]

Manetheren Theories:

 

- It seems that Mat is Aemon reborn; could Elayne be Eldrene reborn???

 

- Could Eldrene be Ilyena reborn???

 

- Could Egwene be a direct descendant of Eldrene???

 

- Could Mat be a direct descendant of Aemon (as well as the reincarnation of the King of Manetheren)????

 

- If Eldrene used balefire to destroy the Shadow forces, could it have brought back to life some of the people killed in the Battle of Aemon's Field???

 

These theories are connected to another one that I call the Dragonmount Paradox, where Ishamael used True Power balefire on Lews Therin at the moment of his suicide via overload of One Power, resulting in an unraveling of the Pattern ("the Dragon is one with the land" and "the land" cannot be balefired). This broke the seal later found in the Eye of the World (temporarily freeing Elan Morin), but also damaged LTT's mind (the entire "Dragonmount" prologue would be a time loop from Lews Therin's point of view).

 

Furthermore, some of the effects of LTT being struck by Ishamael's True Power balefire at the exact moment he killed himself with a One Power overload were the beginning of the Breaking of the World and the return to life of those recently killed by the Kinslayer—Ilyena, her sons, daughters, etc. They would have hidden their identities, keeping the Dragon line alive through descendants who would later found Manetheren — the "old blood" and, in a sense, the People of the Dragon as well!!!

[Tenobia si bashere kazadi]

Egwene could be Eldrene reborn. If anything Elayne would be Illyena reborn. I don't know about any other of your theories

Edited August 24 by Tenobia si bashere kazadi

[Ogier Jr.]

14 minutes ago, Tenobia si bashere kazadi said:

Egwene could be Eldrene reborn. If anything Elayne would be Illyena reborn. I don't no about any other of your theories

Yup, I believe Elayne as Ilyena reborn is very likely!!!

 

Thanks for replying!!!

[Samarah]

On 8/22/2025 at 4:25 AM, Ogier Jr. said:

Manetheren Theories:

 

- It seems that Mat is Aemon reborn; could Elayne be Eldrene reborn???

 

- Could Eldrene be Ilyena reborn???

 

- Could Egwene be a direct descendant of Eldrene???

 

- Could Mat be a direct descendant of Aemon (as well as the reincarnation of the King of Manetheren)????

 

- If Eldrene used balefire to destroy the Shadow forces, could it have brought back to life some of the people killed in the Battle of Aemon's Field???

 

These theories are connected to another one that I call the Dragonmount Paradox, where Ishamael used True Power balefire on Lews Therin at the moment of his suicide via overload of One Power, resulting in an unraveling of the Pattern ("the Dragon is one with the land" and "the land" cannot be balefired). This broke the seal later found in the Eye of the World (temporarily freeing Elan Morin), but also damaged LTT's mind (the entire "Dragonmount" prologue would be a time loop from Lews Therin's point of view).

 

Furthermore, some of the effects of LTT being struck by Ishamael's True Power balefire at the exact moment he killed himself with a One Power overload were the beginning of the Breaking of the World and the return to life of those recently killed by the Kinslayer—Ilyena, her sons, daughters, etc. They would have hidden their identities, keeping the Dragon line alive through descendants who would later found Manetheren — the "old blood" and, in a sense, the People of the Dragon as well!!!

Somehow, I always attributed Lews Therin's suicide as the END of the Breaking of the World. I have a lot of rereading to do. 

[Ogier Jr.]

2 hours ago, Samarah said:

Somehow, I always attributed Lews Therin's suicide as the END of the Breaking of the World. I have a lot of rereading to do. 

 

Well, I think it's safe to say that no one alive at the end of the Third Age (perhaps with the exception of the Forsaken) knows exactly what the Breaking of the World was like...

 

Thanks for replying!!!

[Samarah]

33 minutes ago, Ogier Jr. said:

 

Well, I think it's safe to say that no one alive at the end of the Third Age (perhaps with the exception of the Forsaken) knows exactly what the Breaking of the World was like...

 

Thanks for replying!!!

I think it's fun that it might have been the beginning of it. That takes my mind somewhere else. Did I miss something in all of the reading I've done that would point to LTT's death as the moment that commenced the Breaking? Or, was it already happening and his death was just another point when the One Hundred Companions, the other male Aes Sedai and himself, began wreaking havoc? Is it up to us, as scholars and historians, find evidence of the beginning of the Breaking? I always thought the beginning of the Breaking of the World began when Mierin Eronaile bored into the Dark One's prison, seeking a new source of power. If she hadn't done that, the Breaking might not have happened. 

[Samarah]

43 minutes ago, Ogier Jr. said:

 

Well, I think it's safe to say that no one alive at the end of the Third Age (perhaps with the exception of the Forsaken) knows exactly what the Breaking of the World was like...

 

Thanks for replying!!!

Likely, the beginning of the Breaking began when saidin became tainted by the Dark One's touch. But that wouldn't have happened had Meirin never attempted to seek another source of power. Im sorry that I've gone way off your original topic of the descendants of Manetheren. As they say, the old blood runs deep in Manetheren. Daishar Manetheren. Mat has the memories (a "gift" from the Aelfinn)  but Perrin carries the flag. Maybe we should consider Perrin as a direct descendant of Aemon.

[Ogier Jr.]

25 minutes ago, Samarah said:

I think it's fun that it might have been the beginning of it. That takes my mind somewhere else. Did I miss something in all of the reading I've done that would point to LTT's death as the moment that commenced the Breaking? Or, was it already happening and his death was just another point when the One Hundred Companions, the other male Aes Sedai and himself, began wreaking havoc? Is it up to us, as scholars and historians, find evidence of the beginning of the Breaking? I always thought the beginning of the Breaking of the World began when Mierin Eronaile bored into the Dark One's prison, seeking a new source of power. If she hadn't done that, the Breaking might not have happened. 

 

I think you're right!!! Philosophically speaking, I agree that the bore in the Dark One's prison can be considered the beginning of the Breaking of the World... historically, the actions of male channelers with tainted saidin mark the beginning of the Breaking and this was obviously already happening when LTT killed himself... so I guess what I meant is that the biggest perceived events during the Breaking of the World would be the death of the Dragon and the actions of the Kinslayer...

[Ogier Jr.]

34 minutes ago, Samarah said:

Likely, the beginning of the Breaking began when saidin became tainted by the Dark One's touch. But that wouldn't have happened had Meirin never attempted to seek another source of power. Im sorry that I've gone way off your original topic of the descendants of Manetheren. As they say, the old blood runs deep in Manetheren. Daishar Manetheren. Mat has the memories (a "gift" from the Aelfinn)  but Perrin carries the flag. Maybe we should consider Perrin as a direct descendant of Aemon.

 

I considered Mat and Egwene to be direct descendants of the "old blood" because they both demonstrate memories of the old tongue (though in Egwene's case, this could be related to her abilities in the World of Dreams)...

 

Mat not only speaks the old tongue (Aemon's war cry) before Shadar Logoth, but also has memories of what appears to be the battle to defend Manetheren in the Trolloc Wars. I saw someone point out somewhere that in the memory right after being Healed, Mat sees himself commanding an army and his personal banner is the Red Eagle. This would be evidence of him being Aemon himself in this scene... all this before the Finns, so I suppose these abilities (speaking the old tongue and remembering commanding the armies of Manetheren) would be the result of him being Aemon reborn AND a descendant of the "old blood"!!!