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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Tel Janin

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Posts posted by Tel Janin

  1. I'm inclined to side with the paranoia lobby, however if memory serves, can't channelers sense Gray Men?  The scene I'm thinking of is the one from tDR after the Stone of Tear had been taken.  Rand is in his chambers, I believe with either Berelain or Lanfear, and he senses something weird, eventually spotting the Gray Man.  I believe this is right before the Trolloc attack, so It must've been Lanfear in the rooms with him...either way, I'm fairly certain he sensed...something.

     

    But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  ;D

  2. Secondly, I have a great deal of trouble seeing how the Aiel could manage to successfully and consistently be able to stand up to a heavy cavalry charge.

     

    *Sigh...*  Because they don't even try to "stand up to a heavy cavalry charge."  Their mobility allows them to avoid the brunt of the charge altogether.  They may take casualties, but it won't be anything compared to what another infantry unit would take if they attempted to "stand up to a heavy cavalry charge."

     

    As has been stated several times in this thread by myself and many others, the Aiel don't press battle when the conditions don't favor them, unless they have no alternative.  They've got the best recon, they're as mobile as light cavalry (perhaps more so, since they're less impeded by terrain), they can double as artillery, so, unless you can out-maneuver them they're not gonna offer battle if the conditions are unfavorable.  They're gonna redeploy and get you when the ground favors them and/or when you least expect it.

     

    Battle is not always (and as a matter of fact rarely is) the neat little lines of troops firing at or fighting one another across an open field on a clear day.  That 'senario' is a Hollywood story.

  3. The point I wanted to make about the Aiel is that they have several clear deficiencies in their equipment and tactics, deficiencies that could be disastrous, downright ruinous, in some circumstances. This being the case I, personally, find it unsatisfying how they hands down thrash everyone with seemingly very little effort.

     

    Two counterpoints, or rather a counterpoint and qualifying remark.  Your term 'deficiencies', in my opinion is not accurate.  And I hereby acknowedge that this is completely subjective from various points of view, and again hinges on adding more details.  Lightly-armored, fleet-footed, infantry-archers (aka. skirmishers), and more specifically, the elite version of such (like the Aiel) would not consider their equipment to be a 'deficiency'.  Yes, there are senarios wherein the Aiel could be defeated by an effort of combined arms and/or cavalry, but the Aiel seem remarkably able to avoid those hypothetical situations through the use of reconnaissance and their endurance.  In my opinion, the ground would have to be perfect and the tactics would have to be flawless.  I don't really see their equipment or their tactics to be a sole deciding issue; rather, I believe it would irrelevant in comparison to the ground, visibility, etc.

     

    One other thing, we really haven't touched on too much is numbers.  In Randland, an 'army' is a few thousand men.  And a big one at that.  If memory serves (I don't have my books here at this time), Rand brought nearly 200,000 spears our of the three-fold-land.  I'm not sure how big the force was that Janduin led out to kill Laman, but I know it was bigger than any Randland 'armies'.  My point is, the Aiel also have the numbers advantage.

     

    Two more of my coppers...

  4. Chainmail doesn't hinder you a great deal, it was made to be lightweight and provide great defense.  That's why it was the next step in armour's evolution.  It was easily flexible and provided great defense against edged weapons in slashing blows and against thrusts from edged or piercing weapons, like say, I don't know?  An Aiel shortspear or arrows?  Its weakness was with blunt weapons like a mace, as it wouldn't cushion the body from a blow and bones would still break, and we all know how Aiel love to use blunt weapons in battle.

     

    I have to disagree with some of your points.  I'm a trained martial artist (Judo, Ninjitsu, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai); I've been studying for over 30 years.  I'm also a classically trained fencer and have studied the arts of both Medieval and Renaissance swordsmanship as martial arts for 25 years.  I'm a Medieval reenactor, and have experience in both dueling and large scale battle recreations.  I'm not trying to say I'm the best warrior in the world, I'm merely trying to show that I have some expertise in this area.  That being said, I wanted to make two points.  One, chainmail is lightweight only in comparison to plate armors.  My chain hauberk weighs 45 pounds, and that weight is carried entirely on your shoulders.  It makes for a very long day if you try to wear it all day.  And as far as blunt weapons, a trained martial artists hands and feet ARE blunt weapons.

     

    Plate Armor is very heavy and limits the wearers maneuverability.  That's why it was only worn by knights, the horse could maneuver for them.  Practically impenetrable except at the inside elbow and knee joint and the armpits, none of which would be very exposed during mounted combat while using a lance.  As long as your horse has barding and you don't run into a pike, you should be relatively invulnerable on the battle field.

     

    Unfortunately for all you equestrian lovers out there, the best tactic for a medieval infantryman versus a mounted, armored opponent is to take out the horse.  A mounted, armored knight is really only invulnerable from the front.  After the first charge, unless he's managed to plow through and turn about, he'll be flanked, and the underside of his mount will be a prime target for the unchivalrous infantryman.

     

    The Aiel are meant to seem somewhat, I don't want to say superhuman so I'll say "the pinnacle of human physicality."  ALL algai'd'siswai were trained from a very young age in martial arts and the Aiel methods of combat & tactics.  No other nation in the WoT series is described in this fashion, unless you count Lan (aan'allein).  So, they seem superhuman, but they're not.  They're just the best, physically, you can be as a human.

     

    Militiades, what I read you posting is that you believe without cavalry, a military force should not be able to resoundingly defeat another.  Or, in other words, "If you don't have cavalry, you'r gonna lose."  That's the summed up version of what I get from your postings.

    What Mr. Ares and I (and several others) are trying to get you to acknowledge is that your stance on cavalry is incomplete.  There are many factors, senarios, situations, etc. wherein cavalry is worthless at best, and sometimes a liability.  Scads of factors have to be considered; terrain, visibility, composition of enemy forces, reconnaissance, etc. before making the overarching statement that, "If you ain't got cavalry, you ain't got nuthin'."  I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, I'm trying to show you that your stance is not founded on a complete picture.

     

    Anyway, that's all just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  ;D

  5. Ok, if what you say is true about the wetlander armies only having half-trained militia, then yes the Aiel would maul them. Are you certain that's the case though? The forces that the Cairheinin and Tairens field against Couladin seem to be comprised of professional soliders. Don't the Cairheinin shave the fronts of their heads when they become soldiers? That certainly suggests that soldiering is a career in Cairhein, where were all those guys?

     

    I've spent the last quarter century in the military and, although I didn't graduate from the Citadel, I consider myself a student of military history.

     

    Before the advent of air combat, and still to a large degree, the single most decisive factor in any battle is knowledge of the ground.  The Aiel, like them or not, are masters of both reconnaissance and using terrain to their advantage.  The professional soldiers of both Cairhein and Tear are used to lining up on opposite sides of a relatively flat, open field and charging, which was really the only use for heavy cavalry.  Open field warfare and breaking up infantry formations.

     

    While I don't necessarily believe that the wetlanders fielded forces primarily composed of half-trained militia (although there was some), I do believe the reason they got schwacked was the unconventional tactics and warfare utilized by the Shaido in that battle.

     

    And to address the topic, I do not loathe the Aiel; I have deep respect for a society (even a fantasy one) that reveres honor and integrity the way they do.

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