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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

D24g0n

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Posts posted by D24g0n

  1. But they can't tell a lie. A lie is to intentially tell an untruth.

     

    My opinion is based on what we know about AS and their first oath. You are required to show proof because your opinion goes against what we know about AS, especially what we know about Verin. We know that she is a clever Brown. She shouldn't be misunderstanding what Moiraine said.

     

    What we know about AS that is relevant to this argument:

     

    AS swear an oath, "To speak no word that is not true."

    AS are well known for saying very misleading things.

     

    There is nothing that says Verin is not bound by the first Oath.  Verin saying something that seems odd, or seems like a lie, is not sufficient proof to show she is not bound by this particular oath.  

     

    You are saying that Verin is going against the first Oath.  This goes against what is known, and requires proof.

    What I am saying does not contradict either of those two, in fact it goes along with what we know.

  2. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. You've got no thoughts of Verin's that says anything to support you. You should prove your ideas with the text. Moiraine claims she didn't send her. Verin claims Moiraine sent her, because they "might need her". You should prove that Verin misunderstood Moiraine.

     

    Throughout the books it has been shown that AS's words can be very misleading, no matter how clear they seem.  RJ himself was known for using misleading words.

     

    Our opinion is based on what we know about AS from the books and RJ.  You are required to show proof because your opinion goes against what we know about AS, especially this particular AS.

  3. I don't believe they have to be true for anyone else than Verin. But they do have to be true in Verin's view. You missed half the thing that Verin said. She said "Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar. She thought you might need me.". Moiraine never said that.

    Moiraine never sent Verin anywhere. Verin is a smart woman, she comprehends what has been said (and what wasn't). Verin knows that Moiraine never sent her anywhere. Verin went anyway. Verin lied.

     

    Smart enough to, say, do what every other AS does and twist what others say/do to their advantage?  The second part of that quote, "She thought you might need me," also requires very little to no actual "need" on Moiraine's part.  Moiraine had only to say or even do something that demonstrated/indicated a need that Ingtar's party had.  That statement does not even have to be referring to that time period.  She could have told Verin that she was needed with the group at any point in time, and that statement would be true.

     

    There are so many ways to interpret and manipulate what she said, that it is improbable that a character built up the way Verin is would make an easily detectable lie.

  4. It has been said before, but Verin does not make very many, if any, slips of the tongue.  For me, her character is way to intelligent/cautious to make such an amateur mistake that could be very easily detected.  The fact that this "lie" seems so obvious sets off alarms for me.

     

    "Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar,"

     

    That statement is way too ambiguous.  She never explicitly states where Moiraine sent her, so we cannot say it is a lie.  Moiraine could have told her to go to Tar Valon, but she decided to take a detour.  What she said to Ingtar is still true, just not the whole truth.  AS are known to do this kind of thing.

     

    Besides, Tam says it best...

     

    "You see, lad, Aes Sedai are tricksome. They don’t lie, not right out, but the truth an Aes Sedai tells you is not always the truth you think it is."

     

    -The Eye of the World, Tellings of the Wheel

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