You miss the point that, if Rand wished so, he could've put an end to Perrin's efforts. Only by keeping him unawares could Perrin be sure that he'd be left to his own device, to rescue Faile in whichever way he deemed most safe.

 

As I said, it's somewhat untrusting and foolhardy, but he did have some valid concerns.

You're giving Perrin credit for things he never even thought. The story-telling medium allows us to know exactly what Perrin was thinking. He thought things like, "I have to get back Faile. I don't have sufficient strength. I'd make a deal with the Dark One himself if it put her back in my arms." He never thought, "Let's see, I could try tracking Rand down, but it would take time, and it's possible that he's gone completely crazy and would just crush the whole Shaido in one fell swoop, without worrying about collateral damage, despite the fact that he bawls any time a woman might be harmed." He never thought, "Rand might assume I'm just some soldier who'll take his orders and he'll send me off somewhere else where I can't participate in this rescue. He also might be going darkside as a result of things around him becoming increasingly grim."

If we were given good reasons within the context of the story why Perrin didn't contact Rand, I might accept this. We're not, which leaves it up to you to justify using explanations that are somewhat inconsistent with the story. The only context we're ever given is that Perrin is on a "secret" mission, which is the flimsiest possible rationalization given how long he's gone, and the fact that the mission itself changed (or was completed) by the end of WH. The fact that his reasons for doing things are no longer relevant already by the halfway point of his sideplot makes it poorly written, even worse than the Elayne/Andor sideplot, where at least much of the action/inaction is justified.

It's just hard to imagine why he never took the time to weigh the possible pros and cons, especially after learning that there was a GIANT pack of Darkhounds in the area, who ignored him for some reason. He correctly surmised that they were hunting something else, but what if they had actually caught what they were looking for and turned back around to descend on his camp, slaughtering pretty much everyone? He really had zero defense against them, since BF is still the only thing we've seen used on them that definitely works. Given that DarkHounds never get tired and can run down horses, I'd have been pretty frightened that they might just catch what they were looking for, and then double back to finish him off. He never came up with a plan for stopping them, even though something like that could represent a freaking huge obstacle in his plan for rescuing Faile. He didn't even seem concerned that perhaps they might descend on the Shaido at some point, and Faile would be really, really helpless in that case. That seemed like a great moment for him to say, "Crap, I really need some back-up on this."

The pros surely outweighed the cons in terms of contacting Rand, but we never even got to see him weigh them so that we could understand his faulty logic. A flawed character who makes mistakes is actually interesting to read. A flawed character who makes mistakes, continues to actively make the same ones, all while they're being ignored by the writer is intensely FRUSTRATING to read. If I had had the chance to see Perrin reason some of this out for himself, even if he'd made some dubious mistakes in his reasoning, that would have been a better read. He could then think back on his reasoning, and decide that perhaps he'd taken too many risks, he could see where he'd made errors in his past, and he might realize that more people had died because he'd insisted on trying to do things himself. He could experience some character growth, perhaps he could reasses the paradigm he uses for making decisions. Heck, maybe he'll even find himself unable to cope with the decisions he's made, and he'll start creating flimsy rationalizations for himself, so that we can see he's torn up by mistakes along the way. That would have made for an interesting story, but instead, Perrin's story remained simply the SidePlot That Would Not Die.

The main problem, @bronnt, is that Perrin can't trust Rand to care about Faile's fate. Rand might've obliterated the Shaido, true, but who's to say he'd done it in a way that wouldn't prove fatal to, at least, some captives? Alliandre is Faile's best assurance, and it's not a very strong one. So, Perrin decided to do it on his own. Stupid, perhaps, but not without merit.

I don't know why he'd be that worried about Rand causing pointless collateral damage. Pretty much the last time he saw Rand, Rand was torn apart attempting to remember the names of every female who had died in the battle of Dumai's Wells. And Perrin understood that it was about killing women, since he was raised the same way, with the same culture....so naturally, he'd probably take some kind of care not to butcher innocent women when attacking, right? I mean, he'd obviously be worried for the sake of Rand's sanity, but he takes much bigger gambles. If he's worried about Rand blasting the camp and causing collateral damage, why should he trust the Seanchan? How can he trust them to not accidentally kill Faile during the battle? Or not to betray him immediately following the battle? Including that possibility, he also allowed a loose cannon like Masema openly run around. Plus there was a huge pack of darkhounds which conveniently ignored him, and that he probably couldn't have done anything about without someone channeling balefire. And, frankly, he'd never been able to study the effect of forkroot tea, so he had to take a wild guess that he'd put enough into the water supply, that it had fully spread throughout the camp in one day, and that it had incapacitated enough of the channelers in the camp in order for his plan to work. What would have happened if most of the Aiel Wise Ones had stockpiled water in order to avid going to the reservoir every day? They'd have had no chance, Perrin's army would have been defeated, and since he never got word out to Rand about what was going on, pretty much all hope of rescuing Faile would have been lost.

He risked all that without even TALKING to Rand. He didn't even know about Rand going Darkside. Even if he was worried, he could have tried tracking Rand down and talking to him, gauging Rand's sanity for himself before asking for his help, if he was that worried. It wasn't like he didn't have a lot of time, and wasn't Traveling all over the place to set his plans in motion anyway.

@ Bronnt: He sends Perrin to the Queenm because he didn't want his enemies to know about the deal, or that he was worried about the dragonsworn. Picking up the dragonsworn while most of the world thought them to be a loose force would have been to his advantage.So it's not about time, but about seeming to be.

This doesn't make sense to me either. He didn't want his enemies to know that he was forming an alliance with Ghealdan? He didn't exactly hide that he was ruling Tear, Illian, and Cairhein at any point, and none of this caused the Forsaken to drop into the Stone or the Sun Palace and massacre his allies. It doesn't make sense that he wanted to remain behind the scenes since it's inconsistent with the rest of his actions. I get that he can't be everywhere, but honestly, she was eager to swear fealty in exchange for protection, so I don't know why he didn't just Travel there and offer her protection. The only reason is that the Plot wouldn't allow it, because we needed Perrin to get lost for 7 or 8 books full of sideplot.

Been away from these boards since forever, but this is one topic that really burned me. The problem isn't with Perrin himself (even though he is written rather stupidly) but the fact that the entire plot is one big, big Idiot Plot. I'd have been happy to read much more of Perrin, even his pointless side-show, if it was written in a fashion that made sense. I love these books, don't get me wrong-I don't mean to be overly critical. But this side plot should never have been written.

To recap:

It really starts when Queen Alliandre of Ghealdan writes Rand a letter, asking him to come and deal with the Prophet, and she's willing to swear fealty to his cause if he can help restore a bit of order to her country. It's a completely legitimate request, too, since the Prophet is a person who knows Rand personally, and all the people who are rioting and creating this chaos are people who ostensibly call themselves his followers. That's not to say they're necessarily all that interested in following, or that it's his fault the country is in chaos, but since she's willing to swear fealty in exchange for helping him solve a problem that is related to him, it's a very fair deal.

So what is Rand's solution to this? Remember, he's shown himself completely willing to occupy Tear, Illian (later), Cairhein, and Caemlyn at this point (though he's not personally attempting to rule Andor in general, just hold it and restore order for a while). Rand may not like the idea of taking Asha'Man into a volatile situation, but then, he's already crossed that bridge repeatedly. We're never given a reason he doesn't take himself with a dozen Asha'Man, a few of his loyal Aes Sedai, and a portion of his army to deal with this. All he really needed to do was show up and speak to Alliandre-that's essentially all Perrin did before she swore fealty to HIM-and then tell Masema that it was time to go. Obviously it's problematic for Rand himself to risk walking through areas where there's perhaps active rioting, but that's hardly crazier than some stuff he's already done sucessfully, and the fact that some Aes Sedai have sworn oaths of obedience, and the fact that he has Asha'Man willing to obey his orders should be enough to protect him. Dealing with a rioting crowd instead of an army of Aiel should be fairly simple. If they're willing to follow him, he'd be smart to divide them up so they can cause fewer issues, and send them to be trained into an army as he's done with other segments of his followers.

But okay, perhaps he thinks it would take too much time and he has other important things to be doing (we'll ignore the fact that, in the same book, he spends several days literally moping about in his room doing nothing). So he sends Perrin, along with a few loyal Aes Sedai and a couple of Asha'Man, along with a force sufficient to subdue any rioting, should it come to it. I might be misremebering the strength of Perrin's forces, but really, two Asha'Man ought to be able to cut a swath through these people if necessary. For some reason that still makes no sense to me, they stage a fight in order to hide Perrin's purpose. To this day, I've never understood why this was a big secret. He was fully willing to have Perrin openly lead his armies attacking Illian to use him as a diversion; perhaps he was afraid of Sammael attacking Perrin if he turned up someplace else while doing work for Rand. Again, this makes no sense in context with other actions-he let Mat march his band without any channeler support quite openly while moving to meet up with the rest of his army, practically begging for HIM to be attacked. And naturally, Sammael did attack, but, being a big fat idiot like the rest of the Forsaken, instead of squashing Mat's tent by ripping open the earth and crushing, he instead launched a very survivable surprise attack using Aiel. So I'm still not sold on that being Rand's motive.

Regardless, Perrin actuallly underook this secret mission while openly displaying banners that said, "Hey, Perrin Aybara is right here!" and succeeded. He pretty much had accomplished his mission. Masema, of course, refused to use the OP to Travel, but he agrees that he will go to meet Rand. At this point, Faile is captured by the Shaido. The next bits are perfectly reasonable, if you give Perrrin a pass for panicking and making stupid mistakes as a result of panicking. He doesn't know the strength of the Shaido, so he thinks he can intercept them and catch up with Faile and rescue her. If they'd caught the raiding party itself before it hooked back up with the Shaido, it's quite likely, since they had no channelers. But he screws this up, and ends up taking quite a while before catching up with her. I'll give him a pass for this-people screw up, it makes for good literature. Also, he's still essentially following Rand's directions, since he was sent specifically to secure Queen Alliandre's allegiance, and she ended up kidnapped along with Faile, so rescuing her is an acceptable part of this mission. If we accept the premise of Perrin's mission, we're quite, quite fine with everything that happens in his side plot through Winter's Heart.

Then came Crossroads of Twilight. This is where good plotting went to die. The entire plot hinges on Perrin's inability to quickly resolve a problem in order for the rest of the plot to work, so in a world where you can instantly Travel from anywhere to anywhere else, we're forced to endure filler. This is so full of stupid crap I can barely tolerate it. Perrin no longer gets a pass for being stupid since he's no longer panicking or behaving irrationally. It's almost as if RJ knows how idiotic Perrin is being and seeks to drive this home, despite the fact that Perrin has no excuse anymore. Perrin finds the Shaido encampment, he sees that it's way too big and well defended to defeat, and he learns that there's something like 200 channelers in the town. He's literally thinking about how he's ever supposed to defeat this force when an image of Rand is shoved into his brain. It's like an epiphany is trying to shove itself down his throat. At this point, there's no reason he's not saying, "Hey, I should get Rand's help-as soon as he's finished with what sounds like a very dangerous task, as it's creeping out all the channelers I have with me." He doesn't though. I guess he's still under whatever secret oath of secrecy he took, or something, but honestly, there's four major reasons he should be seeking Rand here.

1) He's on the same side as Perrin and has a force indisputably strong enough to crack open the Shaido camp like an egg.

2) Rand had already expressed a desire to find the rest of the Shaido and stop them from causing more havoc.

3) Rand also told him specifically to bring back Masema, who is present and creating problems that Rand can readily solve with his mere presence.

4) Perrin cannot complete the mission Rand sent him on without defeating the Shaido, since Alliandre is a prisoner.

There are certainly a few problems for Perrin to overcome. That is, immediately after the battle at Shadar Logoth, Rand goes missing. Of course, three different factions, each searching for Rand, ALL managed to track him down by the end of this book (Logain, Bashere, and Loial/Karldin). If Perrin had had the decency to look for him, he'd probably have stumbled on the same method of tracking him down. He also has another advantage none of them had-a freaking psychic connection that allows him to see where Rand is and what he's doing. He has zero excuse for not trying, especially given his singular focus on rescuing Faile. The most obvious method to her salvation is completely ignored by him, as well as any responsibility he feels toward Rand's mission being thrown out the window-he jeopardizes it by leaving Alliandre in bondage longer than necessary.

It gets worse. He has the ability to travel anywhere in the known world to purchase grain. Instead of going to Tear, Illian, or Cairhien (remember how Tear had all this extra grain that they sent to Illian and Cairhein?) he travels to a small town nearby where the grain is completely infested with weevils. He ignores this obvious health hazard, refuses to allow anyone to try to help these townspeople, and continues on his way. RJ was toying with us by creating this So Harber sideplot (a sideplot of a sideplot) that screamed: OBVIOUS FILLER.

Perrin continued to be idiotic. He continues to get reminds of where Rand is and what he's doing, even learning that Rand loses a hand through his psychic connection, and never tries to contact him. He thinks that he'll make a deal with the Dark One himself if it will get Faile back. Better to make a deal with the Dark One than call your best friend, right? Also, Rand at this point stops obviously hiding from the whole world, which means Perrin might have a chance to find him. Perrin's clearly thinking about using some of his actual friends to help him out, since he sends Grady to the Two Rivers and brings Tam al'Thor with a legion of bowmen. Hey Tam, I know you'd like to see your son and all, and I know we can create magic holes in the air that can take you anywhere in the world, but sorry, we're not taking you to see your son. There's obviously no reason Perrin shoudln't have thought of this, and using his psychic connection to track him down. What he opts instead is to make an alliance with a second powerful force, one completely opposed to Rand, and making a proposition that will make them considerably stronger by consigning 200 women to slavery. He was upset about Rand mistreating the women who threw him in a box and tortured him, but he's completely okay with forcing slavery onto Aiel women. It gets disgusting at this point, since, despite making common cause with the Seanchan, he's still taking an ENORMOUS gamble because he's relying on his ability to poison the Aiel water supply. He just barely has enough strength to pull off his victory thanks to a great deal of luck, rather than taking the relatively easy method of asking his best friend for help.

So we've had two books full of idiot plot at this point just for the payoff, stuffed with filler. People might have started to forgive Perrin if his idiot plot had had the decency to die, at this point. It did not. It's gone on for two more books-he rescued Faile, but the Sideplot of Doom refuses to die. He's accomplished what Rand asked of him. He has too many people to logistically move at once since he has only two channelers who can create Gateways. Common sense dictates, since he's achieved what Rand asked of him and just needs to get back and report, he send someone to track down Rand, using a combination of his psychic connection, the ability to Travel anywhere instantly, and a tiny bit of detective work. Let's keep in mind that, while it's nice to point out that Gateways have some logistical problems with using them, the more pressing issue of how he's keeping 100,000 refugees (plus his own army) fed is tidily ignored. He can feel Rand pulling him to rejoin him, so he's marching slowly with this big press of refugees instead of trying to find him. The only reason for this contrivance is so that Tam al'Thor can avoid showing up until the end of the book.

The side plot didn't end there, but it should have. Perrin has all these refugees, keeping them fed has got to be a major pain, and he should have told Tam to ask Rand for some channelers to Travel his people, or he should have gone with Rand himself. He knows he needs to be reuniting with Rand. This side-plot continues to go on through Towers of Midnight, with no one from either Rand's or Perrin's camp attempting to contact the other, and Tam not asking Rand to send people to collect them (even though he has friends from the Two Rivers with Perrin).

Perrin is likeable. His sideplot is written so stupidly that it is not.

p. 674 A Reunion-it's nit picky, but Aviendha keeps thinking of Rand entirely by his first name here. She's always addressed him and thought of him as Rand al'Thor, since that's his whole name as she sees it. She's explained in the past that using part of someone's name is like a "honey name" between lovers, and she's not yet familiar enough with him to think of him that way. I could understand an occasional slip in her consciousness as she begins to adapt to thinking of him more familiarly, but the name Rand is used 10 times in two pages here, and only once is it followed by "al'Thor." The ratio should be reversed.

Also, a huge premise of the plot is Egwene writing to monarchs about Rand's plan to break the seals, but isn't it established that most monarchs wouldn't know what they are?

So he's not the "Dark" One... he's the pending Blue Screen of Death?

 

It puts a whole new twist on the entire Blue Ajah... trying to control the world and following poorly written prophecies as if they were programs by which they/we should guide our lives.

 

I'm getting a major "Agent Smith" vibe about Moraine right now...

 

"What are you trying to do, Mister al'Thor?"

The Red Ajah are like your Spy-ware filter, cutting out all the unnecessary bits.

The Brown Ajah are like your digital data backup.

The White Ajah are like the pointless applications in the "Accessories" directory.

The Blue Ajah are like the "Windows Update" program-always sticking their nose in for your own good.

The Green Ajah are like the Anti-virus software, going to war with the destructive elements.

The Yellow Ajah are like your system restore settings, asking if you'd like to run in "safe" mode.

Did we ever find out who killed one of those AS sisters (don't remember the names from the top of my head)?

It was in KoD.  I presume you're talking about Vandene's sister Adeleas.  She was murdered by Careane, we learned, when Elayne screws up her bid to capture some Black sisters.  Vandene got her vengeance by stabbing her before she was killed.

EDITED to make more sense.

Aren't the Ways in some sense alive?  Couldn't they possibly be tainted similar to how a person is tainted like Fain or men channeling saidin?

I seriously can't respond to your question since I'm overcome by how great your screen name is.

I am not sure if this is a simple question but I'll chance it.

 

Rand has been having internal conversations with LTT. The consciousness of LTT is clearly real (rather than a delusion) as it has provided knowledge that Rand could not know. An example is he instantly recognizes Semirhage when he sees her in KOD. Now Rand is a distinct personality formed from his experiences growing up in the 2 Rivers. LTT has a distinct personality which comes from his life in the AOL. Now LTT killed himself because he was guilty about killing his family/friends while he was mad from the Taint. He realised what he had done as his insanity was temporarily lifted from him by Ishmael. Now that LTT's personality is living in Rand's head, is he still mad from the Taint.

 

Does Rand share his head with an insane LTT personality or is LTT actually lucid/free from the taint's insanity but merely rambling through his confusion/grief and guilt from his previous life?

 

I think that LTT should be free of the taint now that his soul has been reincarnated. Does insanity caused by the taint carry through after reincarnation? I would think not. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

See the BUT thread and the Luckers/Terez exchange for a discussion on this.  Pages 239-241(or so). 

Personally, I think the voice was just Rand trying to rationalize things for himself.  He created the voice as a way to explain how he was creating complex weaves and remembering things from his past life.  He didn't want to go crazy, so he split that part of himself off and called it the madman.  Kind of like telling himself 'I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is'.  There is subjective evidence of this in VoG, but that chapter was so well done you could interpret it both ways. 

This is a huge can of worms-it certainly doesn't fall under the simple question/answer premise.

JackeBarnes referred you to the last several pages of the BUT.  There's more discussion in this thread:

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,54507.0.html

I was looking for the other thread dealing with the same thing, but I couldn't find it.  The first thread I posted should show you enough of where the debate stands, if you can process through it.

Just a quick question...

Is Moridin ta'veren?.....is he the Champion of the Dark?

There's no evidence that he is, or ever has been ta'veren.  A lot of people suspect he's tied to the Pattern in some way as the Champion of the Dark.  This is mostly based on his remarks to Rand about how they've fought each other through countless turnings of the Wheel.

Remember, from what we know about being ta'veren, it doesn't last forever.  It's only for a set period of time that events will shape around any give ta'veren.  We might even end up seeing the effect wear off at some point, prior to the last battle.  I think we're meant to believe that Lew Therin was ta'veren as well, but it's not necessarily true.

RJ said somewhere that ta'veren isn't necessarily a factor of the soul, so people who aren't bound to the Horn or have significant souls could become ta'veren.  They usually aren't ta'veren in their next lifetime.

In the timeline of when the books came out, when did New Spring come out (between which books) and is it better to read it at that point in the series, before you read tEotW or after tGS? I didn't know it was out so I haven't read it. I hear its about before Rand is found, but I'm wondering how much of the story is needed to fully understand that book, and when exactly it was out.

I think it's probably much more entertaining to read it after at least EotW, so you allow the characters and world to be introduced there first.  For a new reader, I'd have them read at least the first three (through TDR) before jumping into it.  I think it's probably best at that point, actually, since you can get some additional context on the Aiel and Moiraine while it's still relevant.  And there's an event originally referenced in tSR that first happens in The New Spring, so reading just before there seems ideal.

It's been a long time since I've read it-I think I've lost my copy of it :(.  I must have loaned it to my sister at some point a long time ago.  It's a pretty good story, but by far the shortest book in the series.  It's entirely meant to provide some background on Lan, Suian, and Moiraine after you've already met them, I think.

I don't think they even really knew each other (or at least knew each other well, they would at least have heard of each other because they were both famous) before Ishamael proclaimed himself for the Shadow. Ishamael was a philosopher in the AoL, while Lews Therin was leader of the AS. I don't think they really were around each other all that much, and if they were it has never been mentioned. The only link that has been mentioned is the fact that their two souls keep getting reborn to battle it out. So I think they only really knew each other as adversaries.

 

If you want a Forsaken that's got a history with Lews Therin (other than Lanfear of course) you should look at Demandred. They were allies before Demandred turned out of jealousy/hatred of Lews Therin - this indicates they must have known each other well indeed. Sammael too, since he also seemed to be jealous of Lews Therin.

LTT was a philosopher as well, among other things.  We know this from some of the Lews Therin thoughts in Rand's head.  He also figured enough of the nature of the Bore to know how to seal it.  He sometimes thinks about the Creator and the nature of the world, and of the cyclical pattern of the Wheel.

Frankly, I think that during the AoL, most Aes Sedai had a healthy understanding of philosophy.  I'm not even sure that's a completely accurate description, but they generally understand the nature of Wheel and of ta'veren, and the Pattern.  We see from Demandred an understanding the Bore is not at any specific place, but there exists at Shayol Ghul a weakness in the pattern which makes the DO more accessible.  There were many Aes Sedai then who understood the nature of different worlds and parallel worlds, and they'd learned how to use the Portal Stones.  I say many, because not only does Lanfear know about it, but there were surviving texts, plus the Ways were made by a group of male channelers who sheltered in stedding during the Breaking.

Supposedly modern Aes Sedai are supposed to understand a bit of philosophy as well, since they're taught about the Source and the nature of it-two opposing streams that cause the turning of the Wheel.  But it's apparent that it gets lost on many of them.  Most of the brightest Aes Sedai seem more concerned with Tower Politics than higher learning.  And there's a ridiculous need for a "secret history" archive to help protect the "image" from even other sisters.  They've made themselves more trivial by denying access to knowledge, and it's not even because of Black Ajah paranoia, just simple politics.

All this to really just say that LTT and Ishamael might have run in similar circles during the Age of Legends.  I mean, in tGS, there's the definite implication that LTT knew Elan Moran Tedronai, since he says "You were so full of thoughts, Elan.  They destroyed you, didn't they?"  I think they might have collaborated in their research at times.  They both were exploring the nature of the Pattern.

Did Rand ever tell anyone specifically that he used the True Power, or just 'i killed them' and then go about banishing caddy to the far reaches of his peripheral?

 

As far as is stated, no, he never told anyone. And I doubt he ever would.

 

I am not even sure Rand knows it was the true source.  I don't recall him ever being told by anyone about the true source by LTT or Asmo.  Heck, I haven't even heard any AS mentioning this in any book yet so I think only the Foresaken know.  Now I will have to go read them again and see if Lanfear ever mentioned it to him.

In tGS, the LTT voice in his head knows what it is.  It shouts "Oh, Light, it's HIM!"  meaning, the Dark One.  The power of the Dark One, anyway.  Rand knows exactly what it was.

Ah ok!

He does have a problem shielding women.

Several possibilities -

1) He can't remember the instinctively-woven shield he used on Egwene-Elayne in TSR

2) That shield is obviously different from the weave Asmo taught him to shield men. Asmo's remarks and Rand's problems make it very likely that it's not the same weave that AoL saidin channelers used to shield women. So yes, Aol Saidin-channelers must have used two different weaves to shield women.

 

However, Rand also maybe suffering some variation of a first-second weave problem. Quite often, (As with Gates and healing), there are several weaves to do the same thing. If a channeler has done it one way the first time, he/she may find it difficult to learn a second weave.

If saidin-channelers use a slightly different version of the same weave Rand did on Egwene-Elayne, Rand may have a second weave problem learning Asmo's method. (Just maybe, the weave Rand did there would also work at shielding men)

Nyn shielding Logain in LoC just after she's healed him, makes it likely that saidar channelers use the same weave to block both men-women, she didn't adjust her weave as such, if you read her Pov.

I agree, and I think you've nailed the issue-Rand can't find the same weave again so his second weave is less effective-but I don't know if I agree with your description of the mechanics involved.

It's not that there's several weaves to do the same thing, but there's different ways of weaving any given weave.  Think of it like actual weaving (which, admittedly, I know little of) in where you have several different techniques, but they can all used be used to create rugs, or quilts, or hammocks, if you know what you're doing.  Aviendha's problem isn't that she used a different weave to make a Gate the first time, but that she made the weave in a different fashion.  That's my interpretation anyway.

The only description I can unearth is in Chapter 1.

Long, slightly curved, cloth-tied hilt, centuries old, unearthed recently-- it felt right, he recognised it from his own memories.

We don't know if it's power-wrought, or whether it has herons or not. Rand doesn't think about herons or power-wrought weaponry.

I'll look through that chapter but after 2000 years underwater any packaging would have rotted away, assuming it has been there all that time....even 1000yrs

Not necessarily - there are a lot of water-resistant casings, including plastics, which would have existed in the AoL.

Many high-quality steels such as those used in SAW pipes could last indefinitely, especially under freshwater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism - this is a (bronze) geared astro- calculator that was buried underwater for over 2000 years and it was easily restored. I've worked as a merchant seaman and you'd be surprised how much marine salvage comes up in near-working order.

The devil would be in the details. It may be power-wrought, it may not. We don't have enough info to know.

 

But since it's Artur Hawkwing's sword, you have to assume the packaging is something he would have had access to, 2000 years AFTER the Age of Legends.  And it only would have been under the water for about a 1,000 years.

Of course, it's almost certainly a power-wrought blade, in which case the whole point is moot.  Power wrought blades never experience wearing or dulling.

I have a simple question that has always nagged me, but i never asked it.

 

It is my understanding that:

 

The One Power derives from the Creater and is divided into two opposing halves.

 

The True Power derives from the Dark One and is unified.

 

Why the difference?

 

I'm not so sure that the One Power is derived from the Creator.  I believe the two (three) are distinct.

 

My understanding of RJ's comments on the One Power is that they are two seperate halves: Saidin and Saidar.  They are different, perhaps even polar opposites, but meant to work together for the perpetuation and enrichment of reality itself - the very turning of the Wheel.  Similarly, for channelers to make the best of the One Power they too are meant to work together.  Everybody is supposed to work together to bring about the greatest results - The individual in willing cooperation with others (who naturally may be vastly different from himself) in the pursuit of a common goal.  A positive goal.

 

The True Power, on the other hand, appears to stem directly from the DO.  It is His power.  It is a singular power.  No one can touch it without His permission, and there is no incentive to individuals to cooperate with others in its use.  It is a selfish power.  It encourages both isolation from other individuals as peers, and blind obedience to its source - an absolute abdication of personal will for nothing but the "promise" of power.

 

It truly is the difference between Good and Evil.

 

That's just my understanding of it.

It's the same reason that the enemy in LOTR is a single burning eye, and the One Ring, while the heroes were the allied free peoples from around the earth.  Cooperation toward a common purpose rather than singular driving instinct the basis of any civilized society.  Those channeling the TP aren't meant to work together, but those channeling the different aspects of the OP ARE meant to-all the greatest works, it's been said, came from using both saidin and saidar together.

Thus, the gender division which brought about the Raid At Shayol Ghul is one of the inherent ironies built into the story.  It engendered an entire age of superstitions about men channeling and harmed gender relations even further-yet cooperation at Shayol Ghul would have resulted in both saidin and saidar becoming tainted and nearly ensured a victory for Shai'tan.

As for Adeleas' ability to lift a man two stories high, she might have just been particularly strong in Air.  sometimes channelers are particularly adept at using certain elements, as we well know.  It's difficult to make relative comparisons for strength based on this evidence when we don't know what the factors are behind it.

what exactly is a shocklance? 

 

Sammael says that he wishes he had one and it would make things a lot easier as far as killing Rand or something.  Is it just...well, literally a lance that shocks you?

 

I think the bent black rod that Asne got from Moghedien and uses in KoD Ch. 31 might be a shocklance. It sounds like it works pretty much like a phaser in Star Trek - basically that it's an energy gun. She says it can kill or stun at a hundred paces, and the description of what it does sounds like some sort of ray gun to me. Thoughts?

I don't remember where this quote came from-someone else would need to dig it up-but I'm pretty sure RJ said that was kind of like a shock-pistol.  A smaller version that worked in much the same way.  And yes, it does kind of sound like a phaser.

Why is LTT called Dragon and Rand Dragon Reborn when clearly the same Dragon soul was used even before LTT? Or have I misunderstood how that works?

The answer to this is actually long and rather complicated.  I've been musing over this myself lately, at least in regard to the prophecies.

The Dragon's soul is bound to the Wheel, and is wound out by the Pattern in terms of great need to be a champion of the Light.  He's tied to the Horn and to the Pattern like all the other Heroes of the Horn, but he holds a position of even greater significance, as he's almost always a great leader for the Light, and without him, the Pattern will inevitably collapse.  His fate, as we see with Rand and Lews Therin Telamon, inevitably forces him to confront the Dark One, with the fate of the entire Pattern in the balance.  Other Heroes may be woven out as corrective mechanisms for the Pattern's path, but the Dragon Soul has to keep the whole thing from collapsing entirely.

In most eras, there are no special obstacles.  The Dragon Soul is woven out, and his skills and knowledge combined with special circumstances and a proper sense of purpose will put him into a leadership context.  Lews Therin was the most accomplished man in the Age of Legends, the strongest channeler, and he rose to prominence on the strength of his own accomplishments.  The Dragon, of course, is just the name given specifically to LTT, one he earned on his own.  When the War of Shadow began, he was already in the position necessary to lead, and he managed to save creation by leading the Hundred Companions to the Bore, even though it ultimately destroyed civilization because of the taint.  And there is the rub.

In the Third Age, saidin is tainted.  This creates a serious rift in the Pattern.  As a result, any man who can channel is distrusted, and they are hunted down and gentled.  In such circumstances, it would be nearly impossible for the Dragon Soul to arrive and rise to prominence.  That is the purpose of the Prophecies.  They tell of the rebirth of the Dragon Soul so that people will see the signs and allow the Dragon to survive to fulfill his task.  The Pattern itself wove out the Prophecies facilitating the next incarnation of that soul, so that it would survive to fight the Dark One instead of suffering the fate of every other male channeler.  In other Ages, the Prophecies wouldn't be required, and there is no need to recognize the Dragon Soul for what it is, and hence, no need to assign to it any name-there is no prevailing prejudice against what the Dragon is to inhibit him.  In the Third Age, the Prophecies are entirely necessary to ensure that the Soul is recognized, and those Foretelling the soul's rebirth give it the name of its most recent incarnation-the name people knew.

Hopefully I haven't talked in circles so much that it's gotten too confusing-if so, I'll clarify it later.

Elayne's PoV when she uses a tracker on the pickpocket in KoD suggests that it is just a tracker and can't modify behaviour.

At least if one assumes Elayne knew what she was doing,  and Moiraine didn't add a special wrinkle.

Wouldn't put it beyond Moiraine to know how to add a special wrinkle, and to not hesitate in using it.  She's shown to have worked well outside of convention.

Maybe it's just my poor memory...

 

when and why did Rand stop using the sword of fire?

It's right about the time he captures Asmodean and is taught a lot more about channeling.  There's many more effective weapons than that sword, as Lanfear pointed out.  LTT really demonstrated this in KoD. 

The only reason he carries a sword now is for those occasions where he's unable to channel.  Not that it helped against Semirhage.

...and the entire basis for this theory is that she's thirsty for power?  You could say the same of all the Forsaken, so why the fixation on Lanfear?

 

Because Lanfear is the one Forsaken that we really know the personality and background of. Well, relatively, at least. We know that she has always been obsessed with power. It's a bit sexist, but I guess men are almost expected to want to have absolute power, so from a woman it's... weirder. More note-worthy.

 

Anyways, I just think that Lanfear has some sort of weave or charm that makes her THE MOST ASTOUNDINGLY GORGEOUS AND FANTASTICALLY STUNNING WOMAN EVER, or distorts how people see her-- almost like the Mask of Mirrors. Clearly she was always beautiful, but her current level of beauty doesn't seem naturally possible.  ::)

 

But it is. She was considered that beautiful before she turned to the Shadow. She was with the most accomplished man ever in the AoL before he left her because of her obsession with Power. She was considered probably the most Beautiful woman of any age. Remember when she lets go of the Selene disguise how she appeared to Rand. And how he needed to close his mouth after words. I believe that she's naturally beautiful, because she took pride in her appearance. Not on the level Graendal did, but still vain none the less. I believe she does wear ter'angreal but not for her looks.

 

Perhaps. We know she's obsessed with power, though, and awing men with her looks seems to be a really easy way to control them.

Eh, nothing really to back it up, just a feeling.

You're right.  There's nothing at all backing this up. 

"OMG she's pretty! Cheater!"

I'd also like to point out that even after healing Cyndane is still stronger than Graendel, which proves another point she was the second strongest Forsaken next to Ishamael.

Well, depending on how you interpret relative male/female strength levels, but that's a different debate entirely, and it's been going on for a long time.  The truth is that there isn't a resolution to it since RJ says the Forsaken themselves aren't always reliable for judging relative strengths.  See: Rah'vin.

Well, since Cyndane isn't as powerfull as she used to be when she was Lanfear is something that made me think that.  And since Aran'gar showed up, you can assume that the ability to channel is tied to the soul and not the body.

 

So appart from the DO limiting her (maybe as a punishment inspired by her treatment of Asmodean), you can also speculate that being reborn like this shewas just reset at her original strength.

Instead of this, you can assume it's tied to the one known mechanic which causes someone to be reduced in strength.  That is, she was stilled, and Healed by a woman.  It's debatable as to whether being stilled carries through the soul transmigration, but it fits the available data.  She's still strong, but not quite as strong as she was previously.

We can suspect she was stilled because we know that Moiraine wasn't killed going through the doorway, but her link the Lan was cut.  She'd gone through a doorway previously without cutting her link to Lan, and we know that stilling breaks it.  Both were channeling when going through the doorway and it blew up, and it seems likely to have stilled both.  Lanfear speaks to having been held by the Finns, and if she could have channeled to prevent it, she probably would have.  There's no evidence that the Finns have any power to stop people from channeling, unless they've got a little stockpile of those ter'angreal that they gave to Mat.

Moghedien presumably learned the weave for Healing stilled by virtue of having been linked to Nynaeve when she Healed Logain.  So she Heals Lanfear (who is probably inhabating Cabriana Mecandes' body), and Lanfear's strength is reduced as a result.

The only hole in this theory is whether being stilled would carried across a soul transmigration, and there's only some inconslusive quotes from RJ concerning it.

The PowerBoost theory has many more holes that aren't explained, while creating new mechanics to explain how it works.

1)  Lanfear would have to have visited Finnland before, and presumably not through that doorway.  There's no evidence of this at all.

2)  The Finns have to be able not only to alter a person's appearance, but they have to be able to alter their strength in the OP, and to also be able to stop them from channeling (since clearly they held her after she and Moiraine went through the doorway, and this theory involves her NOT being stilled).  There's no evidence that they can do any of those three things.

3)  The so-called "strength reset" is another invented mechanic.  If you assume this "Powerboost" happened, why would you assume that she'd somehow not carry this new strength into a new body?  Strength in OP is tied to the soul, as we've said, not the body.

You just have to invent too much...and the entire basis for this theory is that she's thirsty for power?  You could say the same of all the Forsaken, so why the fixation on Lanfear?

Is it possible Lanfear, prior to making the bore, visited the Eelfinn and asked to be the most beautifull, the most powerfull and a way out?  And the Aelfinn to find out where she could find more power and finding the bore?

 

Sorry, but the site is a bit too massive to go and look whether that theory is already around.  Would explain why she was killed when entering that gate.

The theory has been hotly debated. There is no evidence in the books to support it. There is some negative evidence in that RJ said that the Finn could not provide a permanent boost in OP, etc.

There's never been any evidence for this theory, but it keeps popping up.  I honestly don't know where people get this idea from the books.  It's clear the Finns aren't like our concept of Genies, with magical abilities to grant wishes.  What you see from Mat isn't that Aes Sedai leave him alone, even though it's what he asks for.  Instead, he gets a ter'angreal that protects him from direct contact with the OP.  Instead of getting the holes in his memory plugged, he gets a slew of disjointed memories from people who previous visited the Finns.

There's no evidence that the Finns can do anything that's related to the OP, much less powerboost anyone.  There's also no evidence that she's had previous contact with the Finns.  There's clear limitations based on RJ quotes and the evidence in the book.

So where is this theory coming from?  Lanfear was simply the strongest female channeler in a era of tons of people who could use the OP.  No one is suggesting that LTT, Ishamael, or Rand was supplemented, so I don't know why they keep seizing on Lanfear.  The only thing I've seen is a clearly misinterpreted quote from WH.