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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

scion9

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Posts posted by scion9

  1. im sorry to burst your bubble with the violet eyes but have you ever heard of liz taylor? violet eyes right there, and my nana has lustrous silver hair. lol :D

     

    Taylor has violet eyes...in technicolor.  In photographs, recent and old her eyes are not violet.  They appear violet in a handful of technicolor movies.  Even in some of the scenes from those movies her eyes do not appear violet but a very deep blue-green which is what color they actually are and is evident from the many photographs taken of the woman. 

     

    Your grandmother also does not have lustrous silver hair.  She may have gray or white hair that has a sheen, but her hair does not literally have a metallic luster.

     

    The fantasy characters I'm describing do not have silver hair like this...

    silver_hair_fits_sq.jpg

    ...as that hair is only called silver when it is in fact greying or white.

     

    Even with a healthy sheen a persons hair will never resemble anything like this...

    sparkle%20sterling%20silver.jpg

    ...which is how the characters in question are described. Silvery, metallic hair, and purple eyes.

  2. So while probably not all that common, there are very dark skinned Andorans, and enough that Rahvin would not occasion much comment.

     

    I don't have issue with that, and agree.  The issue isn't the existence of very dark skinned Andorans, or Andorans being described specifically as being black, including RJ's 'tightly curled hair', et cetera.  What I take issue with is that all characters being described as 'dark' or even 'very dark' are being described as 'black people' as Kadere contests.

     

    Tairens specifically are described as dark, and specific 'dark' characters are also described as being swarthy, such as Juilin.  Dark and black are not synonymous in RJ's descriptions.

     

    As far as characters not being discriminated against based on physical appearance; Masema's hatred of Rand because he looks like Aiel would say otherwise.  We deal with almost exclusively characters that occupy the heights of power, and are good guys.  Characters that excercise privelege due to high social status, and the rules at the top might not be the same as those at the bottom.  Even there we see some pejorative physical descriptions though, such as a Cairhienen captain's PoV in Winter's Heart referencing the 'land of gangly giants' while rubbing shoulders with Perrin's entourage of various nationalities.  We know our main characters don't discriminate based on physical features, because they are mostly heroic and good and above petty racism.  This isn't necessarily representative of what goes on across the entire continent, among every social class.

     

    We do indeed have some very consistent physical traits that are strongly associated with various nationalities.  Coppery skinned Domani, tilted Saldean eyes, tall as an Aielman, short Cairhienen, dark as any Atha'an Miere, and so on.  While their might be a good deal of diversisty, and some nations such as Andor might have more than others, generally speaking most of RJ's nationalities also share some common physical traits.

     

    It's also in no way ridiculous to attempt to draw parrallels between what's in the WoT and what's in the real world as RJ clearly and openly drew upon real world inspiritations for the sake of verisimilitude.  We never see characters that exist outside the scope of available physical traits that exist in the real world.  We never see any violet eyed, lustrous silver haired Taegaryans in WoT because those traits don't exist in the real world.  Also an obvious conciet of the series is that the events of the story take place on Earth of the real world, but in the distant past, or distant future.  There are parrallels to the real world, even if they are only approximations. 

  3. I think you miss my point.  It's being put forward that 'dark' is synonymous with ethnically 'black'.

     

    Tuon, and at least another off-hand description I can recall from one of the earlier books references a 'tight cap of curls' on a 'dark' character.  I took this to mean they were black.  From what I recall though a lot more attention is paid to Tuon's skin color than other similarly 'dark' characters.  The OP noticed that Tuon is being described as black where he missed it with other descriptions.  That's because it is really hammered home more so than other characters with dark skin.

     

    That being said, my point was that not all characters described as 'dark' are described as being ethnically 'black'.  Sea Folk characters with descriptions of long, flowing hair, et cetera are likely meant to be South Asian in appearance, not African (or they are comprised of both). 

     

    Every time a character is described as being 'dark' doesn't mean they are described as being black (especially given that most of the PoVs are coming from pale faces, so 'dark' is a very relative term there).  It certainly does mean that some of the time; but a 'dark' Tairen or Altaran is likely just a Tairen or Altaran with a tan, not a black Tairen or Altaran like is being put forward.

     

    For reference here is the Dabel Brother's artwork for Rahvin that was (allegedly) personally approved by RJ:

     

    http://www.dragonmount.com/Images/Forsaken/Rahvin_Wallpaper_800x600.jpg

     

    I personally wouldn't describe that character as black, although I would describe him as dark.  Maybe he was intended to be a black man by the artist, but I don't think so.

     

    Here is a RL pic of Portugese athlete Cristiano Ronaldo for reference:

     

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/C_ronaldo_cropped.jpg

     

    Not that I care how people imagine characters in their head that much.  It's not badwrongfun.  It's not logical to assume that 'dark as a Tairen' means Tairens are black because dark = black.

  4. Why are there no South Asian characters, and why don't any of the 'black' characters have kinky hair, and why is Tuon so notably dark of skin if her skin tone is common among Sea Folk, Andorans, Tairens, Taraboners, Altarans, Domani, Seanchan, Saldeans and Aiel (they are also described as 'dark')?

  5. Elaida is mentally unstable.  She's obviously unhinged later in the series.  She was always probably mentally 'delicate'. 

     

    I believe their are clues dropped about Elaida's insanity as well, and will have to remember to comb through her dialogue next time I read through the earlier books.  I'm almost positive she, bound by the Oathrod to tell no word that is not true, threatens death and/or maiming at some point in the 1st four books.  Saying, "I'm going to flay the skin from your hide" isn't terribly off-centre for most people but it is if you have to mean it literally to speak the words.

     

    Elaida having a crush on one of the girls is plausible, but it seems it would have come up.  If you wanted non-psychotic motivation, both Moiraine and Siuan are strong in the OP like Elaida.  We know Elaida likes to hang around Aes Sedai that are strong in the OP based on her chosen company in New Spring.  Even though Ellid has a lot of potential, she isn't the niece to a King and she doesn't already have the buzz of 'future Amyrlin' that Siuan did.  Moiraine and Siuan were both rock stars even as Accepted and Elaida wanted a thumb on them.  She treated them like crap even still because she treats everyone she has any power over at all that way.

  6. I don't understand how so many can be so wrong.  The only one that struck me as odd was Faile, which is apparently 'Fah-eel'.  I originally pronounced it 'Fay-eel-ah', pronouncing the last vowel, like so many other first names in the series.  I mean, I understand how you could read the name and pronounce it "Fail"; but you must know that is wrong; yes?

     

    Several of the Forsaken's names I didn't proncounce the same way as on the Audiobook, but none drastically off I don't think.  It's been so long now since my first read I must have read the glossary first for some of the names.  Looking at the spellings now I don't know how I could have gotten 'Semirhage' correct on my first read through, unaided.

     

    If you pronounce all of the names 'correctly' they follow a logical consistency to a point.  The Old Tongue being an exception, which is probably why 'Faile' and the Forsaken's names come across as odd to me while the others do not.

     

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