8 minutes ago, expat said:

 

 

Another example is the fact that there were female false dragons.  The general population believes that the DR will be male because LTT was a man, they are afraid of men channelers, the prophecies say that the DR will save the world while breaking it again, and finally, they don't think about gender issues so the idea it could be a women never crosses their mind.  We also know that the pattern spins out false dragons (the number of false dragons increases the nearer the Dark One is to touching the world, and all the false dragons stopped once Rand revealed himself because there is no need for them at that point). Consequently, the pattern only spins out male false dragons.  This does not preclude men and women declaring themselves as the DR for their own reasons (e.g., insanity, power grab).  The Aes Sedai have no clue which false dragons are spun out by the pattern and which are deluded people, so they all go on the list.  The reality is that there are two lists, the false dragons spun out by the pattern who are all male, and the list of self-proclaimed false dragon who are either sex. 

I tend to doubt any of this was on the mind of the writers. I think, just to say it and not to take a side on it, that its more about inclusion at this point in our cultural zeitgeist. Original WOT was written in a different time when conversations about gender were non-existent in the general population. I think they are probably trying to stay ahead of any potential controversy by just opening everything up to any gender. And again, not saying that is right or wrong.. just my theory.

3 hours ago, Harad the White said:

I saw no struggle. She wanted to gentle Logain at the beginning, middle, and end. She may have even relaxed her shield with Kerene, so that Logain could escape, and then she could implement her plan to gentle him.

I probably worded that poorly .. I meant struggling as in trying to convince the others that it's the right thing to do.

10 minutes ago, flinn said:

 As a character, the actor is doing fantastic. Liandrian is freaking awful in every possible way though.

Of course - I just think that villains are better when they are understandable. Seeing her struggle over wanting to gentle Logain before he can do harm, and seeing that in some ways she was right, that's powerful storytelling. 

Anyone else think Liandrin is almost coming off as a likable character? Maybe it's the actor portraying her doing such a good job, but I find myself hoping for more and more of her in this series. I think the portrayal of the Aes Sedai has so far been the best thing this series has done .. including the costumes. 

Having finished the 2nd and 3rd episode I can say my opinion increased a little. The actors are growing on me, and I'm resigned to the fact that "the book is the book, and the movie is the movie" - a full and accurate recreation of the book would lose half the audience by the fourth episode.. it's just not feasible. I'm taking it like the latter Harry Potter movies - not really faithful adaptations, but placeholders to kind of "remind you" of the book. While there are many changes, they are at least keeping to the main story progression. I'm willing to stick with it and see where it goes. 

14 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

I’ve been reading reddit a bit and the non-readers seem to like it (although these are people taking time out to post about the show). But the other comment I’ve seen a few times is that the anal readers are really obnoxious, complaining about every little insignificant thing that isn’t exactly like the books instead of just enjoying it as a show. 

The reason fans stuck with this dragged out series for over two decades is we liked these characters. I don't expect an adaptation to mirror every single beat, but there's a point where it starts to become unrecognizable. So far, these characters are all interchangeably sullen and one-dimensional. Nothing about the Two Rivers characters feels lived-in. The opening episode should have been two hours and Moraine/Lan shouldn't have appeared at all until about half way in. 

Also -I know they want to have big impressive magic effects, but I'm not a fan of being able to see the weaves. From my recollection, only Aes Sedai could see the weaves. They need to do something to clarify this. In the earlier scene when the Red caused the rocky passage to collapse, we didn't see the weaves. It's confusing.

36 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

How can people relate to and enjoy watching a character whose schtik is that he's just a really good guy?" 

Nail on the head! This is my problem with about 95% of today's entertainment content in just about every medium. Characters are no longer likable. They all have to be dark and conflicted and morose. There is no joy in media anymore. Wheel of Time has very dark themes, but it also has likable salt-of-the-earth characters. I don't care for any of the mains, except maybe Egwene. Rand is a blank slate and Mat has no mischief to him. What's up with Perrin's wife!? The series is long enough without adding NEW and unnecessary content. 

I don't like these characters, so I doubt I'll go much further into the series. Again, this is why I've about completely given up watching movies and TV anymore.

I"m trying very hard to keep reminding myself that "the book is the book and the movie is the movie" .. you can't always put everything into an adaptation. And yet, there is a point where you gut it so much that it leaves you wondering if it's even worth doing in the first place. 

I don't mind putting more focus on Moraine at all.. but I absolutely hated the opening :20 seconds of her dressing and doing full exposition dump on the audience. Why can't we take time and have mystery anymore? I love how in the book she doesn't appear until the arrival at the village. She's a mystery, in the book no one knows what she is after. When you see her in the first scene and get all that expo, it becomes HER story, and all the mystery is gone. 

The Two Rivers characters were originally naive youths. They weren't married, they weren't banging, they weren't dealing with lecherous parents etc.. 

I dunno - I'm gonna give it more time, but I just hate how there is no mystery and no innocence at the start. 

I will say this, though.. I like being able to FINALLY hear how you say all the character's names, haha!

Also, I didn't address the body swap thing. I realize there was some ground laid for it throughout the series. But in the end, it happened so quickly and with almost zero comment, it felt sloppy to me. None of the characters seem to be remotely concerned about it either. So many of the plot twists in this series are explained over and over so you get it when it happens.. but the swap thing was just planted here and there and then ..just happened.

I was thinking how Lord of the Rings had so much content AFTER the destruction of the ring.. the movie, and even more so the novel. In MEMORY you have the climax of action and then just 30 pages later its over. I get what you're saying.. I didn't want to have a full like "Mat went on to do this, and Perrin became that, then Elayne did this and... " etc.. 

Just seemed like our main cast needed a reunion scene or two, maybe even just addressing the whole "what do we do now" .. instead we see them at Rand's funeral, then Rand goes off to see the world. It's not a bad ending in itself, just needed a bit more. 

But like you said, could there be ENOUGH endings to satisfy lifetime fans? Probably not.

On 8/5/2019 at 7:59 PM, Alexantr8 said:

Would have liked to see Demandred realize that he had been out maneuvered by Mat before being killed by Lan.

Yes! My biggest sticking point with the ending. The entire chapter of The Last Battle CONSTANTLY beat you over the head with this being a battle of wits between Mat and Demandred.. how Mat was waiting for that key moment, how Demandred couldn't believe he had found a worthy foe.. etc.. And to then just have it be Lan walks up and pops him in the neck  no big dealio... VERY anti-climatic. I liked the scene itself, but yes it should have come AFTER Demandred realized he'd lost to Mat. Maybe realizing he'd been out done he started wigging out and just bale firing everywhere and then THAT is when Lan want after him.

Also, having Lan perform the fatal sheathing the sword maneuver, only to survive anyway, was very anti-climatic.

So I FIINNNNNNAALLLLLLYYYY finished this series just today, after starting it YEARS ago (before Sanderson ever took over)

I did a full re-read starting last August (2019) and am so glad I did. I have to say, I am blown away with how Sanderson was able to continue the story. I loved all three books, and I thought MEMORY was a very great and epic final novel.

But all that said, I have to say I was extremely underwhelmed in the 20 page epilogue. I was afraid, after finishing The Last Battle chapter and seeing how few pages were left, that the ending would be rushed, and it was. I think after 14 novels spread over 20 years, these characters deserved a fuller wrap up. The Epilogue seems to fly through each character's last scene, with very little examination of how they feel and what the long term effect of the final battle will do to them. I wish he had set aside at least 2-3 chapters to show how each character returned from Shayol Ghul and the lasting effect it had. Show us some "life goes on" moments. And THEN have an epilogue that might have taken place a generation or two later.. show what impact Rand's actions had on the entire world.. Did the visions of Aviendha come true or not.. that kind of thing.

Anyone else feel like it just ended WAY too quickly?