I’ve just finished it. A final re-read through the series and other commitments have meant I’m a little late to the party, but my first thoughts are that while there’s lots to enjoy, there’s a fair amount of disappointment too.

 

First though, a few points in ‘defence’ and recognition of RJ and BS. Principle amongst these is that I feel I may have rather rushed through it. As the Eelfinn might say, I didn’t ‘savour’ it. I’m quite a slow reader normally, but blasted through the book in what were essentially four very long sittings (a record for me). By the time I finished, it was early in the morning and I was pretty tired. That was a mistake. Next up, I think there was always a risk that my level of expectation was too high, particularly since I’ve enjoyed the last three books so much after a bit of a lull during WH and CoT. Finally, the story itself; how do you end it? There’s a lot to cram in there, which is really my main problem with the book.

 

The overwhelming feeling I have is of something of a rushed ending. Reading it I kept thinking ‘he’s running out of pages’. Lo and behold at the end there’s very little on the Great Hunt, Padan Fain pops up and is immediately killed cheaply, Siuan runs into a tent and dies and there’s no real ending. After 300 pages of constant battle and death, there’s no winding down. For me it was simply too much finished too abruptly. Right up to The Last Battle chapter I was enthralled, but there was too little light relief within action that was too repetitive.

 

Anyway, as I’ve said, I loved the first 2/3rds. Androl and Pevara’s part in it was particularly good. As a couple, they’re one of the only ones in the series that make believable sense to me (Gareth and Siuan, Rand and Min being the other ones). The Sharans and Demandred was excellent, though this could have done with more backfilling of the story after the event. And, though it pains me to say it, as she was one of my favourite characters, Egwene’s death was amazing and a beautiful part of the final section. I also think it was right that there are unanswered questions and while I personally think Rand should have died, I’m kind of glad he didn’t – though I’m pleased that I guessed how he was going to seal the DO and get out alive!

 

For such a large set piece battle, I think BS managed to convey the scale (both big and small) of the fight. I never felt like I didn’t know what was going on where, which is an enormous credit to him. Olver blowing the horn was a master-stroke, and while I had an inkling that Mat probably wasn’t linked to it anymore, it felt a perfect way for that story arc to play out (yay for Noel too!). There were lots of other good bits too.

 

Basically, I need to re-read it, but my gut reaction is that I think it needed another book! There I’ve said it. Now where did I leave that rope…

Well said.  Your take really resonates. 

I have a healthy suspension of disbelief.  Nothing comes close to the 4th wall for me.  You know, Mat and Rand had not spoken since Rand sent Mat after Elayne in Salidar.  So much happened, that the competitive yet sarcastic conversation juxtaposed with the pivotal plot point between Rand and Fortuona worked for me.  That quote from BS about writing the HIM out of him resonated.  I will reread the series at some point in the near future, and maybe then I will see it.  I personally enjoyed it thoroughly.  It must be my sense of humor and tolerance for the position BS was put in simply undertaking the task.

As for fan fiction, my take is that fan fiction has been used as a slur against writers.  Many authors publicly decry any fan fiction being written, e.g. GRRM.  Thus, I consider any accusation of a person on the byline being a fan fiction author an insult.  Just my humble opinion.

I actually have not read Bakker or Abercrombie yet.  I would certainly welcome the suggestion of which author/series I should tackle next.  Also, please don't get me wrong about my impression of fantasy.  I read comics from early reading years until my mid twenties. I never read much fantasy.  I read LotR and the Hobbit.  The Illiad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Beowulf and Nibelungenlied in comparative lit at UGA ended my fantasy days until I read ASOIF.  Now, I'm hooked.  I read so much case law and transcripts at work that all I want now is fun characters and great epic stories.  I certainly welcome great writing.  Obviously, GRRM has been peerless so far for me.  So, please by all means tell me who you feel is the must read author and series that I need to read next.   

 

I have read the criticism of Brandon Sanderson, and I simply find the critiques petty.

There have been how many pages of well thought out, very valid critique(the people who went overboard can be counted on one hand)and you dismiss it all like that? Why not try addressing some of the actual points made and show why you don't agree.

 

Here's the thing:  I simply do not find the attacks on what BS was asked to do by Harriet and TJ on all of our behalves fair.  Critiques on specific style, prose, narrative etc. is not petty and has a valid place in a forum such as this where people who cared enough about the books seek out an outlet for discourse.  You misread my intent, and maybe it was overly harsh.  I do expect and look forward to argument on particular criticisms, but I have seen acrimonious attacks on BS on this site as well as Westeros.

 

TGS, ToM and MoL were paced beautifully, the epic arc completions of each of the major protagonists were spectacular, and the conclusion of the series satisfied almost completely.

By "paced beautifully" I'm assuming you mean the pace continued to pick up after it did so in KoD? One would hope it would, it has as much to do with where we were in the story arc as anything else though. Not sure I agree with the "beautifully" part given the amount of bloat, filler and structural issues that crept into these last two books.

 

The other two things you mention are of course entirely subjective, glad you enjoyed it so much though.

 

Actually, I meant that the chapter selection, POV's chosen, how to move the story forward through the POV's of secondary/tertiary characters, as well as the actual rhythm of the narrative was paced beautifully.  Obviously, RJ had used CoT and KoD to get everyone in position for completing the individual main protagonists arcs during the finale, so BS's task was facilitated by the story being in position for resolution, but I do believe BS deserves credit for pulling it off.

 

That being said, Sanderson was very skilled writing dialogue,

Many think his dialogue is overly blunt, unnatural and juvenile. I certainly wouldn't call it a strength. Not only where some of the characters voices entirely off(most secondary characters turned into cardboard cutouts) but we got clunkers like the below:

 

I disagree with those perspectives.  Try reading a deposition.  The dialogue had humor, tension, apprehension, and passion.  I reveled in much of it.  Especially Mat's letter to Elayne (not precisely dialogue), Egwene and Verin's last conversation, Rand's reunions with first Perrin then Mat.  I thoroughly enjoyed the dialogue.  Please remember, fantasy is not in and of itself juvenile, but it is geared to a readership that will historically draw 12-21 year old males.  I don't need Faulkner or Hemingway in Fantasy.  I just need to laugh, cry, cringe and smile.  BS's dialogue accomplished all of that for me.

 

I can accept that Sanderson did not want to interject himself and his own ideas into the story too much.  Sanderson had to complete the series within the framework of the outline and input provided by Team Jordan, but there had to be room for some additional plot.

But he did interject himself, in fact over half the material in these last three books was all Brandon with zero guidance from the notes. Team Jordan pretty consistently scaled back how robust they were. Even when there were notes they often look like this:

 

I am actually learning this now.  I honestly did not know he handled the Pevara/Androl story himself and that he interjected himself more than I suspected.  Is it true that RJ actually wrote the majority of the Ghenjei raid?  I am certainly open to discussing what was added and what was necessary or not, but I will not go so far as to stoop to the level of calling his efforts fan faction.  I find that petty, as stated supra.

 

 

 

Thanks for that insight.  I am sure we all would have survived if we got a little less Perrin vs. Slayer in exchange for more Moraine, Nynaeve, Min, etc.  I also would not have objected to additional pages.  I read ToM in like two weeks, but CoT took two months. IMHO, it is not the page count as much as the content that should be the deciding factor in a book.

For real?  Is that why we didn't get any Narishma?  I did like that arc though.  Although Androl's cryptic, well-traveled past seemed to tread too much on Noal/Jain's archetype.

Now that I have had several days to digest the conclusion of the series, I have some observations I would like to share:

1. I began the series in December of 2011.  I read straight through and really enjoyed every single book.  I kept off of here and Wiki as much as possible to avoid spoiling all the surprises and developments.  While I missed out on the twenty plus years of reading and rereading these novels, I did have the advantage of not getting bogged down in books where the plot did not advance much (CoS, PoD and CoT).  The most highly criticized books were enjoyable to me because I knew the next one was not something I would have to wait a year or two for before it was published.  Without the baggage of wanting more to happen, I was able to really appreciate the subtle plot lines and important foreshadowing that were pivotal to the resolution of the story. 
2. I have read the criticism of Brandon Sanderson, and I simply find the critiques petty.  TGS, ToM and MoL were paced beautifully, the epic arc completions of each of the major protagonists were spectacular, and the conclusion of the series satisfied almost completely.  Sanderson is not Jordan.  I am sad Jordan did not get to finish, and there is no question Jordan would have done a better job because these were his characters and his story.  That being said, Sanderson was very skilled writing dialogue, and he was great at delivering the plot payoffs.  Certainly, his prose and character development skills were inferior to Jordan's, but how much character development needed to be developed by book 12?  Any argument that he failed to deliver on bringing Rand to the brink and then writing his character post DM epiphany is flat out disingenuous.
3. As satisfied as I was with the series, there were some payoffs that fell short.  I can accept that Sanderson did not want to interject himself and his own ideas into the story too much.  Sanderson had to complete the series within the framework of the outline and input provided by Team Jordan, but there had to be room for some additional plot.  We deserved more about Moraine once she was rescued.  We lost her for seven plus books.  I simply can't understand why we didn't get several Moraine POV's.  At a minimum, we should have gotten an extensive one after the Dragon's Peace that included her reunion with Lan and Nynaeve.  I also really wanted to see Nyn go to Lan every night after the battle to spend time with him prior to her entering SG.  Nyn revived Malkier, and we never got to see Lan thank her with a passionate moment.  I thoroughly enjoyed Mat slipping SL's dagger into Fain's black heart, but I wanted more on the Shaisam resolution.  I also wanted a better resolution to the Seanchan problem, but I can live with an armistice. I also really wanted to see what Hawkwing said to Fortuona.  I would have loved more time spent resolving the story lines of secondary and tertiary characters like Dobraine, Joline, Setalle, Talmanes, Galad, Berelain post LB.  Finally, I agree that Perrin vs. Slayer was too much.  Perrin came a long way in his development throughout the series.  I loved him as the Wolf King in ToM/MoL, but the story became overkill.  We could have got more plot in exchange for some of the overkill, including but not limited to seeing him and Faile be crowned king and queen of Saldea.  

There is plenty to talk about now that I have read everything, and I look forward to doing so with you all in the future.  

Cheers.

I just finished the series. Thom summed up my experience in one word: Exquisite

I counted 4 out of 5 bloodknives killed so far. Is one still left presumably in the tower?