Janduin wasn't just a clan chief he was the leader of all the Aiel who came across the Spine of the World, so he had more authority than he normally would

The Car'a'carn doesn't get to tell the Maidens what to do, so I doubt Janduin would have been able to overrule them, whatever position he held.

Any Aiel needs to try to viel if in combat or going to be (well maybe not Wiseones).

I agree basic headcanon suggests that should be the case, but is it? Do we see any Aiel who are not algai'd'siswai veiled?

Being in battle doesn't mean veiled. The Aiel wise ones don't veil before attacking at Dumai's Wells, do they? And Aiel can be taken gai'shan, if they were armed in battle - but that doesn't mean that they had to be veiled. A roofmistress touched by a raider can insist on being taken Gai'shan because she "had a carving knife in her hands when she did. A carving knife! It was a weapon, she claimed, as if she were a maiden" (TSR Ch 33 "Beyond the Stone"). I doubt the roofmistress in question was veiled, but she could be considered a combatant.

It's a simple question: is the veil only for algai'd'siswai? If it isn't, then where are the veiled non-warriors? I'm happy to read citations, I just can't find them.

On 12/12/2021 at 10:46 AM, The Purple Ajah said:

Does anybody have a quote that proves that souls are "gender-locked" from Robert Jordan? I can't really find a quote from the books that definitively proves such a thing. The only RJ quote I have found on the matter seems to indicate that it might be true for the Dragon, but not all individuals.

https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=female+dragon #13

"a soul ready to be reborn cannot change gender". See also the other quotes on that page with specific examples, e.g. it isn't just the dragon (Birgitte will always be a woman, whoever she's reborn as)

So the new show trailer is coming under criticism in the usual places because the pregnant Aiel woman fighting Illianers on a snowy mountain isn't veiled.

This is a book lore question though: would Shaiel have necessarily been veiled?

TSR, Ch 34 "He Who Comes with the Dawn"

"...Shaiel found herself with child. By the laws, she should have returned to the Three-fold Land. A Maiden is forbidden to carry the spear while she carries a child. But Janduin could forbid her nothing... So she stayed, and in the last fight, before Tar Valon, she was lost, and the child was lost."

The relevant bit here is that a Maiden is forbidden to carry the spear while with child. We don't know what status pregnant Maidens have, but it doesn't seem from this (or elsewhere) they lose their status as a Maiden ("giving up the spear"). They can go back to the spear after pregnancy, but while pregnant they are on some sort of 'maternity leave'.

I don't think that the fact that she stayed means that she was able to take up the spear while pregnant. Janduin might have been able to ensure that Shaiel wasn't send home, as clan chief of the Tarrdad he had that power, but a Clan Chief is not a Wetlander king who can override society law/practice/customs, let alone those of Far Dareis Mai. I think she stayed with the Aiel but no longer carried the spear.

So, if Shaiel was not algai'd'siswai, would she have been veiled if she found herself in combat? I can't remember a direct example of a non-warrior Aiel in combat wearing a veil or not. There's a Trolloc raid in TSR (Ch 37 "Imre Stand") where Aviendha finds spears and a buckler and had "tucked up a corner of her shawl to veil her face", but I'm not sure that proves much either way, as she still thinks of herself as a Maiden at that point. Plus, it suggests that, in the absence of a shoufa, she'd made do with her shawl. In the absence of a shawl, could she have continued fighting?

An idle question, I know, but I've been mulling it over and I thought some advice would help!

Anyone else feel that the flaw in Vora's s'angreal was a convenient invention? I mean, we never heard about this before and almost all angreal have that buffer standard. Really it seemed like Brandon saying, "Oh yeah, Eg's gotta die, better make something up!"

Just out of interest, do we know that the lack of a buffer is actually a flaw (rather than just perceived as one)? The lack of a buffer allows a channeller to - effectively - 'sheathe the sword'. If something matters more than life itself, you can deliberately overdraw and get a once-in-a-lifetime 'flameout' power up. 

Also, I like the fact that it made Egwene vs Taim into a mirror of Land vs Demandred. Taimandred are fighting for personal gain, while Egwene/Lan just want to stop them, whatever the personal cost. Which was one of the big philosophical comparisons in the conclusion.