Amazing ending. Robert Jordan and Brandon were amazing as they kept us guessing, and mostly guessing wrong, till the end. It shows just how well written the series is, and how in depth the world of WoT is. My emotions reflected the main characters emotions throughout the book. The only thing i would wish for is that the series didn't end.... the legacy lives on, but without the amazing writing of the authors to keep us on our toes, it will not be the same as expanding the world in your mind. But i realise, that all series have to end, and that it cannot actually become the real world. Sometimes i wish for that though.

yeah, that makes sense.

@spoke, @mbuehner, @NeekNack and @Mashiara Sedia, i think that you 4 might get a better idea why (apart from the fact that Semirhage is a Forsaken) Sorilea has such contempt for Semirhage if you work out the main difference between them and/or figure out Sorilea's core and what her main intentions are, or something like that, because the reason Sorilea hates Semirhage could range from something as simple as the fact that Semirhage is a Forsaken (which i doubt, as she is not such a simple person that just hates random people because she can) or more complex like because Semirhage opposes everything that Sorilea stands for/works for.

Just something i thought of while re-reading the thread. ^_^

I just realised, and this contradicts a tiny part of my earlier post, but Fain or the Forsaken couldn't help Rand die unless Rand wanted to die and he didn't care how, only that he wanted to.

Note: unfortunately i'm not even up to the part where Alivia is introduced to the story, so this is pure speculation from the information i gleaned from this thread.

the word "help" leads me to believe that she's on rands side... i mean... if she was going to attack rand, i dont see how that could be construed as "helping" him die... more like, "forcing"... she may have bad intentions, but it will be driven by rands intent...

@Mark i believe that you have an intriguing point, as i was thinking of something along those lines. Think about exactly what she said, and how many different meanings that has. It's like with Aes Sedai or with the elves in Eragon when they speak in the Ancient Language. They tell the truth, but in a misleading way, or they phrase their words so they tell you only what they want to, but to you, it sounds like they are telling you everything you asked for.

Alivia 'helping' Rand die could mean absolutely anything, and like Mashiara says, in his mindset, even Fain or one of the Forsaken would help him die. But I don't think thats it. I believe that Alivia 'helping' Rand die would mean that either he's dieing and she refuses to help him, or she makes his death quick after he's already dieing, or that he asks her to kill him and she complies. If you understand what i mean, Min would have said something that involved the word kill if she saw that in her viewing, for instance:

'Alivia is going to help kill you' or 'Alivia is going to kill you'

if that was how it was going to be. Do you notice the difference? So basically I think that the way she phrased the sentence makes it seem like Rand is voluntarily dieing and she is just helping him through the process or something like that.

And i just thought of another thing. Did you notice, (and i'm not to sure on this one, as i am not up to the part where Min tells Rand about her viewing, so i don't know her exact words) that she said that Alivia WAS going to help kill you? that she WAS? I think that either her opinion changed or being around Ta'averen has altered her role in Rand's death.

As well as this, you know how in the earlier books Min tells Rand and his group that if she tells people about her visions that are of their death, or just that her telling them of her visions in general, changes it in some way, most of the time making it worse? Maybe the fact that she told Rand about the vision that Alivia was going to help him die just changed how it happens, or maybe it was never like that, as (i'm guessing) that she doesn't harbor any (visible) hate and/or dislike towards Rand.

If any of the things im guessing about happen to be wrong, please tell me in later posts? and could someone post Min's exact words to Rand from her viewing.

thanks for the evaluation, tsukibana. Unfortunately, i can no longer post in this topic, because i still haven't read the 9th+ books and have no idea what you're talking about. =D

Which for me, really sucks. ^_^

What if... well.. although this is a what if, it is a very distinct possibility, or i might just have missed something that would make this impossible, but what if Rand actually ends up converting to the shadow right after Tarmon Gaidon as the madness gradually drives him into that position, and Moridin converts to the light? If that does happen, Rand and Moridin could be the same entity in a way, but they 'take turns' at being the Dragon after each death. This would help explain their link, i think.

Note: when i say Rand i mean whoever he is being continuously reborn, like Ishamael.

And.... i just reached another point. If Ishamael is the same being as he was at previous Tarmon Gaidon's, then, taking the opposite approach to someone earlier (sorry don't know who, just remember seeing it in this thread) then who is Rand? I know he is basically Lews Therin Telamon reborn, but who was Lews Therin the resurrection of? sorry if i'm rambling a bit, but i hope you can understand what i mean.

I just had another thought. If the theme of balance is anything to go on, then, if Moridin were to turn to the light, Rand would have to turn to the darkness? I (personally) think that this might open up trains of thought that might not have been explored before. Or at least not posted.

As a possible scenario, i think that if Moridin does turn to the light to help Rand, I think that it would be something like in one of Egwene's tests she passed to become an accepted in the WT, except where Rand defeats the Dark One, but the taint has finally driven him mad and he has to use all his concentration to keep himself sane, and he asks Moridin, instead of Egwene (like in the test) to take the dagger from him and to kill him, Rand thinking that him dieing:

1. would stop him from becoming another version of the DO,

or

2. would keep him from the DO and the madness. (Same sorta thing)

Anyway, say that Moridin does kill Rand, the DO would claim him in death, as he said he would, therefore Moridin becomes 'Rand', and vice versa in the next age of the dragon, this would explain their link, and exploring the possibility that if Rand dies so does Moridin, and that the Dragon was ment to kill the Naeblis, then it would work in accord with the pattern, as they would swap roles, because Rand was just a person to fulfill a role, and so was Moridin, but the role lives on without the person, if you understand me.

Sorry for the ramble, but i hope this helps.

Note: if any of this is answered by books 9, 10, 11 & 12, please tell me so as i have not yet read those books and i am speculating purely off what i have read here as well as the books prior to those i mentioned.

EDIT: thinking back on it, my comment has sorta gone off topic.