Newsflash, the reason the DO doesn't try to overwhelm Rand at SG is the same reason he hasn't killed him the entire freaking series.  The DO needs Rand in order to win, he needs the confrontation to take place with the Dragon.

@Aredeis - I actually agree that they would both be idiots to start a battle now, but I don't see why if they're both idiots if it happened then the onus is on Elayne for retaliating, surely it would be on Perrin for starting it (and he did, willingly or otherwise). (on rereading it came across as mean, so I'm sorry!)

 

Yet Perrin now claims lordship over 2R, that means that he's responsible for their actions to Elayne, so when they sent away tax collectors then it was an act of defiance and possibly secesion. Elayne has to respond to this. If Perrin had known what they'd do he would have stopped it, but he's still responsible for it

Your first two sentences seem to directly contridict one another.  And you seem focused on assigning blame to whoever flinched first like they are kids in the schoolyard.  Petty squabbling on the eve of the end of theworld=stupid, and it doesn't really matter who would have started it.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, that's possible too.

Fine word it however you want.  The important part of this to me is the last line anyway.  That was the only real point i was making.  I dont like the taveren argument though, it's just deus ex machina, you can literally use it to argue that almost any outlandish thing might happen.  It might even be an applicable argument, I just don't prefer it.  How's Hawkwing's seige of Tar Valon looking?  Taveren don't alway win.  There isnt anything to convince me that they wouldnt both be idiots to go to war with each other at that juncture.  IF this where normal times and the LB wasnt literally already starting, then sure.  However it's anything but normal times.

As for your question, I don't really understand, do you mean when the ppl in the 2R sent away the tax collectors?  That's would be an act of defiance, but hardly political mauneuvering between Perrin and Elayne, which is what i thought we were talking about.  Especially when as you point out, it's something Perrin didnt know about until Elayne told him. 

I wasn't really into the who had more military might part of this discussion, more the reality of the situation.  i agree with Suttree that Elayne has more military force but I don't think it's by as much as he does. 

I don't think there's a compelling argument to be made that either Perrin or Elayne could have afforded to go to war at that juncture.  It's just too close to the last battle for them to foolishly throw men away over relatively petty concerns like territory and sovreignty.  Those are petty and meaningless compared to the end of freaking time itself.  Would have made Perrin and Elayne no better than Pedron Niall and Elaida. scheming for their own benefit while the world burns.  Therefore she was bluffing, pure and simple, she could not/would not at that time have attacked Perrin, but he was in the same, or, and I agree with Suttree here, a slightly smaller boat.  He couldnt afford to call her bluff and she's a waaaay better politician than Perrin.  Which ultimately means Elayne in charge>Perrin in charge anyway, unless you are talking about a battle.  Perrin can fight but I'd much rather have Elayne govern my country.  Them fighting at that juncture makes them both idiots, imho.

Would not argue about her being in the right either, at least in her role as queen. Though as Perrin and Galad have both pointed out, at this stage in the game, the good guys can't afford to be killing each other for any reasons.  No one would be in the right if the 2R and Andor went to war, they'd both be playing into the DO's plans.

Perhaps.  Likely if it got that far Rand would ask them both that.  He couldnt really have the mother of his children on one side and his dad and one of his best friends on the other,  at war with each other.  All totally hypothetical but a fun conversation to pass the time anyway.  I'm jonesing hard for aMoL.

Hmm, actually, is Tam still with Perrin at that time, I can't recall without getting the book out.  He's back with Perrin in aMoL ch1 isnt he? Or do we even see him there?

What about the part where she risks putting herself against Rand and the Aiel.  She could certainly overwhelm what Perrin can field at Caemlyn at that moment, but could she so easily overwhelm the forces he would be potentially able to call upon?  Not that any of that had a snowballs chance in hell of actually happening in the books.

It's politics and she played her hand very well in that meeting.

That's a different story altogether.  I totally agree, Perrin didnt call her bluff so she won.  I'm only saying that it was indeed a bluff on her part.

sry double post

BTW, long time lurker here and other places, all the way back to the rec.arts/usenet days.  I normally like the way you think but I'm not following you on this one.  I think Elayne's hands are pretty well tied by the circumstances.

 

@Suttree, I see very little difference between not being able to enforce something without massive losses and not being able to enforce it at all in this situation. I suppose technically you are right, she could have enforced it, but doing so would have likely crippled her country for the LB and kept her from even being able to think about moving on Cairhein. She couldnt afford the cost of enforcing it, ergo for all intents and purposes she can't enforce it.

Not at all true. We know Perrin, it's a war he knows he could not win and he isn't one to sacrifice his people in that manner. The threat was real enough if the 2Rs was actually trying to break away.

 

Well yes, I think we would both agree that neither of them would actually go through with it.  At least I can't see Elayne letting it get to war any more than Perrin.  Just because of Rand if nothing else.  Would she really have her army kill Rand's friends and neighbors from childhood, I doubt it.  So doesnt that mean that she wasnt going to enforce anything, even if she could have?

And that's without even considering Perrin getting reinforcements from Rand and/or the Aiel.

@Suttree, I see very little difference between not being able to enforce something without massive losses and not being able to enforce it at all in this situation.  I suppose technically you are right, she could have enforced it, but doing so would have likely crippled her country for the LB and kept her from even being able to think about moving on Cairhein. She couldnt afford the cost of enforcing it, ergo for all intents and purposes she can't enforce it.