Reading this thread all the way through has made me want to create another discussion.

Mods, if you would be so kind, I would like a thread on the ways we as fans would change channeling to make this story better. Maybe call it "fixing channeling" or something more creative if that isn't enough for you.

I know people won't like to hear it, but channeling and the one power, one of the most integral parts of the series, turns into IMO one of the biggest weaknesses of the series at the end. It is simply too strong, too much.

Channeling being weaker, having fewer channelers, or having major restrictions on what individual channelers could do would have majorly helped WOT.

As has been pointed out, the idiot ball was heavy in this book on all sides.

IMO, though, nowhere was it more readily apparent than the genius four front battle plan, specifically the Andor front.

Why do you need to draw them into an ambush in the Braem wood? The entire Shadow Army on that front is sitting in Caemlyn! They can't Travel! They aren't an army at that point, they are targets! I know you know the GD concept of scorched earth, you have already discussed using it! There are probably somehow some form of Duck Trolloc maybe, so they are literally sitting ducktrollocs! Travel to Caemlyn, set up some form of barricade/gateways outside the city gates, and burn the entire city to the ground! Boom! Done! One army annihilated and no more Andor front!

/rant

So much of the book was just pointless, boring battles. Battles are a part of what makes a fantasy story great, but characterization and motivations are just as, if not more important, and a little less battle and a little more development of oh, say, Demandred and the Sharans would have GREATLY improved this book. How did he come to power? What are their prophecies? What was the Sharan rationalization besides some platitude about destroying in order to remake the world?

Instead of any sort of feelings of excitement or desperation at the battles, like I felt during Falme, Tear, Cairhien, Dumai's Wells, the Cleansing, the Damonas, or Maradon, I felt only boredom. I like ice cream, but I don't want to eat ice cream for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That would be too much ice cream.

Meh.

At least it is done.

I am always going to be dissappointed with the series falling off a cliff and needing overcorrection. A tighter pace would have helped this series so much. This entire book just felt rushed to me.

 

 

Am I the only one that likes Fain? Can't go past a good crazy villain.

Fain is a hoot, not my favorite but he is definitely a fun villain.

 

 

I really liked Fain and even just the general idea of Fain for the first half of the series, but it's hard to keep liking a guy who's never around. Obviously I don't know what his role at the end will be but I think he's one of the great underused characters of the series along with Demandred, Shaidar Haran and a couple others. Maybe Jordan didn't know how to write them in more often while still keeping them as mysterious. It would be a problem. Or maybe he just didn't see them that way and didn't care. Either way, I think it's a shame.

I gotta chime in on Fain as well. He seems to be one of only a few villains to really be truly effective, as wherever he goes he sows chaos and evil, is always able to make an escape, and constantly sees his power grow.

The only other villain I can think of whose actions we have seen on screen and hasn't been a failure in at least some way is Taim.

Edit: I kind of forgot the whole Two Rivers battle in there somehow, but Fain still left that place dodging an enemy (Luc/Isam) and left with a hard core of human minions. Even when he fails he succeeds.

The only two I can think of that I haven't seen disliked are Moiraine and Verin. Hell, even Rand is disliked by a few people.

I started a thread chronicling my first play of Final Fantasy VI, and also have a game of Jeanne D'Arc started up. Just bought a PS3 and have AC Brotherhood and Skyrim on the waiting list.

I LOVE Settlers of Catan. It combines the trading and ruthlessness of Monopoly with less luck and more strategy. The card you are thinking of is called monopoly, and I have used that exact tactic to great amusement. The real great thing is that it is easy to learn and almost everybody that plays it loves it.

Postal. One of my friends really loves to watch terrible movies, and I watched this with him directly after watching another gem, Zombie Strippers. Uwe Boll really should be banned from making movies, even if Rampage was kinda decent.

This is kind of a tricky topic when comparing The WOTverse and our own. The massive growth of economies in our world is a very recent thing, starting with the trans-atlantic empires, the Industrial Revolution in the UK, and then really taking off with German innovations in technical schooling and American innovations in managerial techniques and public investing. Before that, it was common for states to grow to a point until they could no longer sustain their populations need for food and other material resources, at which time they would collapse due to a variety of reasons, the most common being famine, disease, mass migration, and war, be it civil or a foreign invasion.

Before the Industrial Revolution, Western Europe was, despite the Renaissance, coming very close to this point again, with numerous reports on the quality and quantity of food available to the populace being drastically worse than the period of a few centuries after the Black Death.

What we are seeing in Randland right now as regards to education and innovation, they might be on the way to pushing the boulder up and over the top of the mountain towards that large growth. Historically speaking, though, the ebb and flow of their population and technology is very in tune with our own.

As far as accents not specified by RJ, I seem to think French accents for people from Tarabon.

I've always figured that both Tarabon and Arad Doman would have some form of either Arab or Persian accent. Cairhien to me seems the most likely to have a French accent.

Edit: I see the Domani are supposed to have an Indian accent, so I just have to give the Taraboners a Pakistani accent.

Flaming has got to be way up there.

Constant description of Rands eyes for every character that meets him, possibly more so than Perrin.

Secondly, I have a great deal of trouble seeing how the Aiel could manage to successfully and consistently be able to stand up to a heavy cavalry charge.

 

*Sigh...*  Because they don't even try to "stand up to a heavy cavalry charge."  Their mobility allows them to avoid the brunt of the charge altogether.  They may take casualties, but it won't be anything compared to what another infantry unit would take if they attempted to "stand up to a heavy cavalry charge."

 

As has been stated several times in this thread by myself and many others, the Aiel don't press battle when the conditions don't favor them, unless they have no alternative.  They've got the best recon, they're as mobile as light cavalry (perhaps more so, since they're less impeded by terrain), they can double as artillery, so, unless you can out-maneuver them they're not gonna offer battle if the conditions are unfavorable.  They're gonna redeploy and get you when the ground favors them and/or when you least expect it.

 

Battle is not always (and as a matter of fact rarely is) the neat little lines of troops firing at or fighting one another across an open field on a clear day.  That 'senario' is a Hollywood story.

First, we are on a message board where neither of us would post if we were not WoT fans. I find the way in which you are replying to me to be very rude and wish you would apologize. If you disagree with me, that is fine. I will still argue that I am right, and you are wrong, and you will do the same. However, there is no need to be insulting with your post and typing *sigh*.

On the argument that Aiel would not be in the situation that they had to face a heavy cavalry charge, I disagree. Especially at the Blood Snow. At such a massed battle, in my opinion, they would not have been able to decide to avoid such a condition. I look forward to your reply.

I can't say I loathe the Aiel, but I do agree with OP on several of his points, foremost being that an army consisting entirely of lightly armed skirmishers would have massive difficulties to overcome against a much more heavily armored force.

Secondly, I have a great deal of trouble seeing how the Aiel could manage to successfully and consistently be able to stand up to a heavy cavalry charge. Armed with only small leather bucklers and spears they neither have the armor to protect themselves from the weaponry that a heavy cavalry force would be using such as lances or longswords, nor would they be able to present a strong enough shield-wall that would deter horses from charging the formation which is the proven tactic and the reason that a seeming majority of wetland infantry are armed with pikes. Also many of the lightly armed and armored Aiel would simply be ridden down by the weight of the horses, as the prevailing heavy cavalry tactic is to simply ride over infantry. I am willing to concede this somewhat as we do not have sufficient description of wetland cavalry barding, but I am of the opinion that this would provide a large difficulty.

A side note, several people in this thread have mentioned the fact that warfare in the wetlands had become highly ritualized and specialized into a simple cavalry assault with pike holding the line. However, the Aiel style of warfare is just as specialized, if not more so, because of their inhospitable terrain. The use of armor in the Waste is not feasible due to the strain it would take on the wearer in an environ like that. The Aiel had to develop a specific kind of warfare that was sustainable and did so very well.

Finally, there is one large part of the Aiel War that does not sit well with me. Putting an army into the field requires a lot of supply and planning even if one wishes only a short operation. For the Aiel to have fought a protracted war of 3 years far away from their supply lines seems nigh on impossible. With the lack of wagons and pack animals that we are told about in descriptions of the Aiel would seem to leave foraging as the only option to supply such an army. With an army with a low figure of around 60,000 I have a hard time believing the Aiel able to undertake an invasion of that magnitude.

P.S.- This is what part of the alphabet would look like if you took out q and r.