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Mashiara Sedai

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  1. You make a good point, Sakke.  What was demanded of or given to Moridin when he went to the Finns?  If he went in by the doorframe ter'angreal, he would have been given three answers.  If he went through the Tower, he would have had to bargain for Lanfear... or rather, bargain for a way out, since Lanfear was already dead by that point, right?  The Finns killed her accidentally, but Moridin still went looking for her?  Was he there while they killed her?  If she was killed before, the Dark One should have been able to access her soul without Moridin going to the Finns at all.  Perhaps they killed her after he left, and they had her hidden while he was there?  Either way, Moridin went to the Finns (we're assuming), so they may have given him answers/gifts.  

     

    Another thing you said got me thinking.  You said that the Moridin/Rand link shouldn't interest the Dark One, but if the Dark One is really intent on killing Rand, he could kill Moridin.  I think it's implied that if one dies, the other will as well.  I'm sure the Dark One knows about the link, and I'm sure he has plans for it--if he didn't make Moridin do it in the first place.  So, that could be the plan, the Dark One can kill Moridin at the Last Battle, and Moridin would willingly give up his life, killing Rand as an after-affect.

     

    It may be a stretch, but it's something to think about.


  2. There are three times (off the top of my head) when Rand says he will kill the Dark One in The Gathering Storm: Chapter 15 ("There is a way to win, Moridin," Rand said. "I mean to kill him. Slay the Dark One. Let the Wheel turn without his constant taint."), Chapter 15 again ("Anyway, it doesn't matter if the Forsaken return, it doesn't matter who or what the Dark One sends at us. In the end, I will destroy him, if possible. If not, then I will at least seal him away so tightly that the world can forget him."), Chapter 44 ("My duty is to kill The Dark One," Rand said, as if to himself. "I kill him, then I die. That is all.").  So I think he really means to try to kill the Dark One.  We haven't had too many POVs from Rand since he and Lews Therin merged, but since Rand has access to Lews Therin's memories, he could have more clues to how to do it.

     

    We talked in a previous blog's comments about the possibility if Rand kills the Dark One, time might become linear, breaking the Wheel.  So, if Rand is able to convince Moridin that that could free him, Moridin could change sides.


  3. Tsukibana, I agree that Rand/Moridin being spun out together doesn't always mean in opposition.  Even Birgitte said she and Gidal Cain got together as a couple, sometimes not.  It would be the same for Rand/Moridin.

     

    To everyone, I think another major point we overlook is the actions of the Wheel to right the imbalance.  EVERYTHING the Forsaken have done has benefited the Light--whether it be Rand, Mat, Perrin, or even the other characters.  Each obstacle helps the Light characters grow and reach new heights.  Every struggle gets them closer to their goals.  So, even the Dark One's plans aid the Light.  And if Moridin (and Ishamael before) lead most of the Dark One's plans, it can be argued that Moridin/Ishy, knowing the logic of all this, that the Dragon HAS to live to the Last Battle, would know he was aiding the Light even with his Shadow plans.  So, he could easily keep it from the Dark One, because he's playing the Shadow's side--only knowing it will be exactly what the Light needs to win.

     

    The scene with Rand and Moridin is in The Gathering Storm, Chapter 15, "A Place to Begin."  I agree that it is an awesome scene, and Rand even thinks, "One might have thought that they were two old friends, enjoying the warmth of a winter hearth."  There is a definite bond between the two, and it doesn't seem hostile in this scene.  Their threats seem out of habit, not out desire to harm one another.  This interaction hints at something more, something deeper, between the two.  It could just be from the balefire bond--but why did Moridin save Rand from Sammael in the first place?  Did he know--maybe from some prophecy or Foretelling--that he would be needed in Shadar Logoth, and that he needed to use balefire on Mashadar? 


  4. You know the part about her foretelling that I never hear/read anyone address "an Amyrlin imprisoned" is actually twice proven.  Egwene by other Ae Sedai and then Elaida by the Seanchan (assuming you would categorize enslavement as a kind of imprisonment). 

     

    I personally felt that was done so intentionally as RJ has various characters point out that prophecy is not necessarily what it says nor can it mean only one thing.

     

    I had to think on this for awhile, Caelvan, but I think I've got the answer now.  When Elaida had her own Foretelling, it said, "Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger" (A Crown of Swords, Prologue).  We see in The Gathering Storm, that this is fulfilled with Egwene on the Amyrlin Seat ("The Amyrlin's Anger").  So, even at this point, Elaida is a false Amyrlin.  So, I don't think the "Amyrlin imprisoned" counts as Elaida too, since even by her own Foretelling, Egwene is the true Amyrlin.


  5. The link between Rand and Moridin is one of the topics I think about most.  I am no where near to getting a definitive theory on it, but I'll talk a bit about it next week.  As for Rand's access to the True Power, I always attributed it to his link with Moridin--Rand was able to access it because Moridin was able to access it.  But, I'm thinking now it might be most likely the Dark One still had to grant Rand access--even through Moridin.  It was part of a plan  to steer Rand towards the Shadow, so the Dark One willingly let Rand touch it; but if the Dark One had denied it, Rand wouldn't have been able to, even with Moridin's link.


  6. All right.  Now I can finally respond!  :P

     

    Tsukibana, I'm not sure Gawyn would know enough about them to activate them on purpose.  As far as we know, there's no one, save Aviendha, who can "read" ter'angreal, so I don't think anyone in the Tower could tell him what they are.  Because of that, I think it would be accidental.  He, like Spoke said, would drop blood on one of them during the fighting and active it.  But of course, that is if it can be re-activated, since it's already been "turned on," so to speak.

     

    Metal Head, I'm going to politely disagree with your idea that Sulin is Rand's brother.  We know Janduin was very young for a clan chief, so I don't think he would have been old enough to have a child who is Sulin's age.  Interestingly, her clan is never listed.  ???  I've checked Encyclopaedia-WoT.org and it's not even mentioned there.  Do we ever get told?  I can't recall.  But, she is described as such: "She is wiry and white haired. (TFoH,Ch7) She has blue eyes. (LoC,Ch1) She is wiry, scarred and leathery with white hair. (ACoS,Ch2)" (Encycloapedia-WoT).  She obviously a much older woman than someone who could be Rand's sister.  When she said "first-brother," I think it's just the way the Maidens adopted him.

     

    Oragne7, I agree that it may have been referring to Rand, since he is the obvious one who will be the key to winning the Last Battle.  At the same time, I think that's a bit too obvious.  But, maybe that's the point; Elaida is oblivious to much of what's going on--this could be one of those pieces of information she's just bungled.


  7. mbuehner, you are absolutly right about Darlin's crown! I remembered that incorrectly. Sorry! But, as you said, the crown of Illian was just displayed above Rand's head. And when Min sees the crown above Elayne, it never specifies that it was on her head, either:

     

    "..she said she saw a crown, and it was the Rose Crown of Andor."

     

    I don't know anything about rulers, so I can't say anything based on fact. But many parts of this story were inspired by real life, so Robert Jordan may have based all the nations on real courtly traditions.


  8. Gwenifer, I know I can be 100% WRONG on all of this! I simply enjoy pointing out pieces of the texts that stuck with me and make me think things will happen a certain way. Of course, Brandon is Aes Sedai trained now, so his answers let us believe things but he doesn't actually say anything. So, I'm not going hop on the "Perrin will die" bandwagon. At least not yet. :)

     

    Mbuehner, you are absolutely right. However, it's very similar to the crown Min saw in Darlin's aura, a unidentified crown which later turns out to be the crown of the Tairen King. So, with that parallel, I'm leaning towards Perrin actually achieving the crown.


  9. Jack, feel free to hate any characters you want. I won't judge you. :) I don't agree, but I can see how some people have a hard time with Perrin/Faile. At the same time, the story would be boring if there weren't characters that people didn't like. A well-balanced story needs all sorts of personalities, not just people we love.

     

    However, I will argue about Perrin being King of Saldaea. Some countries--like Andor--only have queens, but others have a king and queen on equal status--like Lan's parents in Malkier. The only problem is that most of the current rulers aren't married: Paitar of Arafel is, Easar of Shienar was, Tylin of Altara was; everyone else is single or we don't have enough information. So, we don't know much about what their King/Queen relationships are. But we can't assume just because Andor has a Prince Consort, that every other nation does.


  10. The "and" suggests that both situations will happen simultaneously; so while "He" is holding the "blade of light," the "three shall be as one." I don't think that necessarily means the three also need to be holding (or using the Power through) the blade of light. That's why these riddles confuse us, and the scholars. Remember, even the Beldeine and the other Aes Sedai thought it meant the three Nations (Illian, Tear, Cairhien).


  11. @Mashiara - That thread you mentioned where you made some predictions between KoD and TGS... can you share some of the theories you got wrong? Or give us a link?

     

    I'd be too embarrassed to post most of it, but one thing I was convinced of was Moiraine's rescue from the Finns and her reappearance would be what solved Rand's inability to kill women. He would see that, though he thought he killed her, she was still alive, and that would give the peace he needed to do what needed to be done. I also thought Sharina Melloy would be in the circle with Nynaeve and Rand and Callandor. Another was that the Seanchan would settle into the Caralain Grass area north of Andor.


  12. Hmm i always wondered if the 3 being one meant aiel, seanchan, and randlanders all being allies. I could be wrong though.

     

    I think that the Sea Folk would need to be represented in that group, too. I don't think they consider themselves Randlanders. They aren't as important to the story as the Aiel, but they are just as numerous, I believe.


  13. Jack, I'll make the thread a week before. I'll remind everyone to post there when it gets closer to time. I would be fun to have everyone's predictions in one place. :) On a similar note, I looked at a prediction file I made during the gap between Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm. Wow, some of the things I thought then were way off! I'm ready to make a new set of predictions.

     

    I hope the end of the series isn't the end of the Theory Blog. I think I'll still have plenty of things to say, especially about the Hook.


  14. I agree with Jack that the timeline might not work for Rand to fight off the Shadowspawn--and others things--before going to Shayol Ghul. I bet he's going to Travel as close as he can, skipping over the major battle in the Blight. I think it would be so fitting to have Rand, Mat, Perrin, Nynaeve, and Moiraine all going there together. It's the main group of characters to leave the Two Rivers (except Egwene) and it's implying everything's come full-circle. I think that's a reoccurring theme within Wheel of Time, so it fits.

     

    There are so many ways the "three shall be as one" can be interpreted. I think it's kind of pointless to even speculate. But, if there's enough interest, I can look into that for a future blog. :)

     

    Gwenifer, thanks so much for saying such kinds words about me (and the other posters)! *blushes* I tend to stay away from the MoL forum because I want to come up with my own ideas, not repeat what others are saying. So, thanks for pointing it out to us.

     

    St. Rukos, Elaida's foretelling happened before Morgase took the throne, so the "Royal line of Andor" had to be referring to Tirgrane's line--or Luc's. I always thought it meant Rand. Though it could be Luc or Galad.


  15. I think the only difference is the strength. I think it's similar to a pond and a lake. An angreal "holds" a smaller amount of accessible One Power than the sa'angreal, the way a pond holds a smaller amount of water than a lake. (Obviously not the best comparison, but bodies of water are judged by size, unlike a screwdriver and a novelty screwdriver.)


  16. Rand and the Whitecloaks were on the same side. Perrin says, "Yes, I was in Falme. I rode to battle alongside the heroes of the Horn, alongside Hawkwing himself, fighting against the Seanchan. I fought on the same side as your father, Bornhald. I’ve said that he was a good man, and he was. He charged bravely. He died bravely" (Towers of Midnight, Chapter 34, "Judgement").


  17. That's an awesome idea, Polaridin! Except for Robert Jordan's comment:

     

    Question: How did they appear in the sky?

     

    Robert Jordan: An effect of the Wheel, really.

     

    But I think that the direct correlation between Rand/Whitecloaks vs Ishamael/Seanchan implies some of the effects had to be the Horn.


  18. You all raise good points. But, Robert Jordan says the Wheel--which is different from the Pattern--"is more than a simple mechanism." Also, he continues to say that the Wheel chooses to spit out ta'veren, so the Wheel is taking an active role in world events. Specifically, with it's additions of ta'veren, which are Light sided character (Robert Jordan said, "I can't really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta'veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern.") So, I definitely think the Wheel is in favor of not being destroyed by the Dark One, which would make it lean towards the Light.


  19. getting slightly off topic with the Rand conversation but I have had theory for around 10 years that Rand would be killed and then summoned by the Horn to fight the DO as he would then be immortal and indestructable (how can a mortal man take on a being outside the pattern?)

     

    I think he will need to re-seal the Dark One before he dies. If he dies first, the Dark One will have access to his soul, like Ishamael taunted oh so many books ago. Rand's soul in the hands of the Dark One is not a good thing. Unless it comes down to a tug-of-war, with the DO on one side, Nynaeve on the other, both trying to pull Rand's soul back. Maybe. But I'm thinking Rand will die after the DO is no longer free.


  20. This is all true. But it may happen before the LB is done, i.e. Rand dies, gets resurrected and then completes his task.

     

    The rest of Nicola's foretelling says, "The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

     

    So, when Rand and his girls are on "the boat," the "great battle" is already done. I think that means Tarmon Gai'don is finished by this point. And some time might have passed for the Asha'man to equal the number of Aes Sedai (unless a lot of Sisters die during TG).


  21. I think that could lead to an argument as to whether a soul is actually inside this world, or if they exist on a metaphysical plane. If outside this world, my argument still holds. (Now I'm just being argumentative.)

     

    Also, yes, it was saidin.

     

     

    Question: Someone had a question about Machin Shin in the Ways. Since it seems to absorb the creatures that pass through there, could you regard it as a servant of the Dark One or perhaps almost as a Forsaken?

     

    RJ: It's not a servant of the Dark One. It will kill Trollocs or anything else. You can say it's a parasite that grew in the Ways because of the taint and the One Power that was used to initially create the Ways. The talisman of growing that was used to extend the Ways. So it's not a servant of the Dark One, but it's definitely on the evil side.

     

    Question: Would it be cleaned with the Cleansing of saidin?

     

    RJ: No. Its like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless it's feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it

    http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=196

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