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Mashiara Sedai

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  1. You know the part about her foretelling that I never hear/read anyone address "an Amyrlin imprisoned" is actually twice proven.  Egwene by other Ae Sedai and then Elaida by the Seanchan (assuming you would categorize enslavement as a kind of imprisonment). 


    I personally felt that was done so intentionally as RJ has various characters point out that prophecy is not necessarily what it says nor can it mean only one thing.


    I had to think on this for awhile, Caelvan, but I think I've got the answer now.  When Elaida had her own Foretelling, it said, "Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger" (A Crown of Swords, Prologue).  We see in The Gathering Storm, that this is fulfilled with Egwene on the Amyrlin Seat ("The Amyrlin's Anger").  So, even at this point, Elaida is a false Amyrlin.  So, I don't think the "Amyrlin imprisoned" counts as Elaida too, since even by her own Foretelling, Egwene is the true Amyrlin.

  2. The link between Rand and Moridin is one of the topics I think about most.  I am no where near to getting a definitive theory on it, but I'll talk a bit about it next week.  As for Rand's access to the True Power, I always attributed it to his link with Moridin--Rand was able to access it because Moridin was able to access it.  But, I'm thinking now it might be most likely the Dark One still had to grant Rand access--even through Moridin.  It was part of a plan  to steer Rand towards the Shadow, so the Dark One willingly let Rand touch it; but if the Dark One had denied it, Rand wouldn't have been able to, even with Moridin's link.

  3. All right.  Now I can finally respond!  :P


    Tsukibana, I'm not sure Gawyn would know enough about them to activate them on purpose.  As far as we know, there's no one, save Aviendha, who can "read" ter'angreal, so I don't think anyone in the Tower could tell him what they are.  Because of that, I think it would be accidental.  He, like Spoke said, would drop blood on one of them during the fighting and active it.  But of course, that is if it can be re-activated, since it's already been "turned on," so to speak.


    Metal Head, I'm going to politely disagree with your idea that Sulin is Rand's brother.  We know Janduin was very young for a clan chief, so I don't think he would have been old enough to have a child who is Sulin's age.  Interestingly, her clan is never listed.  ???  I've checked Encyclopaedia-WoT.org and it's not even mentioned there.  Do we ever get told?  I can't recall.  But, she is described as such: "She is wiry and white haired. (TFoH,Ch7) She has blue eyes. (LoC,Ch1) She is wiry, scarred and leathery with white hair. (ACoS,Ch2)" (Encycloapedia-WoT).  She obviously a much older woman than someone who could be Rand's sister.  When she said "first-brother," I think it's just the way the Maidens adopted him.


    Oragne7, I agree that it may have been referring to Rand, since he is the obvious one who will be the key to winning the Last Battle.  At the same time, I think that's a bit too obvious.  But, maybe that's the point; Elaida is oblivious to much of what's going on--this could be one of those pieces of information she's just bungled.

  4. mbuehner, you are absolutly right about Darlin's crown! I remembered that incorrectly. Sorry! But, as you said, the crown of Illian was just displayed above Rand's head. And when Min sees the crown above Elayne, it never specifies that it was on her head, either:


    "..she said she saw a crown, and it was the Rose Crown of Andor."


    I don't know anything about rulers, so I can't say anything based on fact. But many parts of this story were inspired by real life, so Robert Jordan may have based all the nations on real courtly traditions.

  5. Gwenifer, I know I can be 100% WRONG on all of this! I simply enjoy pointing out pieces of the texts that stuck with me and make me think things will happen a certain way. Of course, Brandon is Aes Sedai trained now, so his answers let us believe things but he doesn't actually say anything. So, I'm not going hop on the "Perrin will die" bandwagon. At least not yet. :)


    Mbuehner, you are absolutely right. However, it's very similar to the crown Min saw in Darlin's aura, a unidentified crown which later turns out to be the crown of the Tairen King. So, with that parallel, I'm leaning towards Perrin actually achieving the crown.

  6. Jack, feel free to hate any characters you want. I won't judge you. :) I don't agree, but I can see how some people have a hard time with Perrin/Faile. At the same time, the story would be boring if there weren't characters that people didn't like. A well-balanced story needs all sorts of personalities, not just people we love.


    However, I will argue about Perrin being King of Saldaea. Some countries--like Andor--only have queens, but others have a king and queen on equal status--like Lan's parents in Malkier. The only problem is that most of the current rulers aren't married: Paitar of Arafel is, Easar of Shienar was, Tylin of Altara was; everyone else is single or we don't have enough information. So, we don't know much about what their King/Queen relationships are. But we can't assume just because Andor has a Prince Consort, that every other nation does.

  7. The "and" suggests that both situations will happen simultaneously; so while "He" is holding the "blade of light," the "three shall be as one." I don't think that necessarily means the three also need to be holding (or using the Power through) the blade of light. That's why these riddles confuse us, and the scholars. Remember, even the Beldeine and the other Aes Sedai thought it meant the three Nations (Illian, Tear, Cairhien).

  8. @Mashiara - That thread you mentioned where you made some predictions between KoD and TGS... can you share some of the theories you got wrong? Or give us a link?


    I'd be too embarrassed to post most of it, but one thing I was convinced of was Moiraine's rescue from the Finns and her reappearance would be what solved Rand's inability to kill women. He would see that, though he thought he killed her, she was still alive, and that would give the peace he needed to do what needed to be done. I also thought Sharina Melloy would be in the circle with Nynaeve and Rand and Callandor. Another was that the Seanchan would settle into the Caralain Grass area north of Andor.

  9. Hmm i always wondered if the 3 being one meant aiel, seanchan, and randlanders all being allies. I could be wrong though.


    I think that the Sea Folk would need to be represented in that group, too. I don't think they consider themselves Randlanders. They aren't as important to the story as the Aiel, but they are just as numerous, I believe.

  10. Jack, I'll make the thread a week before. I'll remind everyone to post there when it gets closer to time. I would be fun to have everyone's predictions in one place. :) On a similar note, I looked at a prediction file I made during the gap between Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm. Wow, some of the things I thought then were way off! I'm ready to make a new set of predictions.


    I hope the end of the series isn't the end of the Theory Blog. I think I'll still have plenty of things to say, especially about the Hook.

  11. I agree with Jack that the timeline might not work for Rand to fight off the Shadowspawn--and others things--before going to Shayol Ghul. I bet he's going to Travel as close as he can, skipping over the major battle in the Blight. I think it would be so fitting to have Rand, Mat, Perrin, Nynaeve, and Moiraine all going there together. It's the main group of characters to leave the Two Rivers (except Egwene) and it's implying everything's come full-circle. I think that's a reoccurring theme within Wheel of Time, so it fits.


    There are so many ways the "three shall be as one" can be interpreted. I think it's kind of pointless to even speculate. But, if there's enough interest, I can look into that for a future blog. :)


    Gwenifer, thanks so much for saying such kinds words about me (and the other posters)! *blushes* I tend to stay away from the MoL forum because I want to come up with my own ideas, not repeat what others are saying. So, thanks for pointing it out to us.


    St. Rukos, Elaida's foretelling happened before Morgase took the throne, so the "Royal line of Andor" had to be referring to Tirgrane's line--or Luc's. I always thought it meant Rand. Though it could be Luc or Galad.

  12. I think the only difference is the strength. I think it's similar to a pond and a lake. An angreal "holds" a smaller amount of accessible One Power than the sa'angreal, the way a pond holds a smaller amount of water than a lake. (Obviously not the best comparison, but bodies of water are judged by size, unlike a screwdriver and a novelty screwdriver.)

  13. Rand and the Whitecloaks were on the same side. Perrin says, "Yes, I was in Falme. I rode to battle alongside the heroes of the Horn, alongside Hawkwing himself, fighting against the Seanchan. I fought on the same side as your father, Bornhald. I’ve said that he was a good man, and he was. He charged bravely. He died bravely" (Towers of Midnight, Chapter 34, "Judgement").

  14. That's an awesome idea, Polaridin! Except for Robert Jordan's comment:


    Question: How did they appear in the sky?


    Robert Jordan: An effect of the Wheel, really.


    But I think that the direct correlation between Rand/Whitecloaks vs Ishamael/Seanchan implies some of the effects had to be the Horn.

  15. You all raise good points. But, Robert Jordan says the Wheel--which is different from the Pattern--"is more than a simple mechanism." Also, he continues to say that the Wheel chooses to spit out ta'veren, so the Wheel is taking an active role in world events. Specifically, with it's additions of ta'veren, which are Light sided character (Robert Jordan said, "I can't really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta'veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern.") So, I definitely think the Wheel is in favor of not being destroyed by the Dark One, which would make it lean towards the Light.

  16. getting slightly off topic with the Rand conversation but I have had theory for around 10 years that Rand would be killed and then summoned by the Horn to fight the DO as he would then be immortal and indestructable (how can a mortal man take on a being outside the pattern?)


    I think he will need to re-seal the Dark One before he dies. If he dies first, the Dark One will have access to his soul, like Ishamael taunted oh so many books ago. Rand's soul in the hands of the Dark One is not a good thing. Unless it comes down to a tug-of-war, with the DO on one side, Nynaeve on the other, both trying to pull Rand's soul back. Maybe. But I'm thinking Rand will die after the DO is no longer free.

  17. This is all true. But it may happen before the LB is done, i.e. Rand dies, gets resurrected and then completes his task.


    The rest of Nicola's foretelling says, "The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."


    So, when Rand and his girls are on "the boat," the "great battle" is already done. I think that means Tarmon Gai'don is finished by this point. And some time might have passed for the Asha'man to equal the number of Aes Sedai (unless a lot of Sisters die during TG).

  18. I think that could lead to an argument as to whether a soul is actually inside this world, or if they exist on a metaphysical plane. If outside this world, my argument still holds. (Now I'm just being argumentative.)


    Also, yes, it was saidin.



    Question: Someone had a question about Machin Shin in the Ways. Since it seems to absorb the creatures that pass through there, could you regard it as a servant of the Dark One or perhaps almost as a Forsaken?


    RJ: It's not a servant of the Dark One. It will kill Trollocs or anything else. You can say it's a parasite that grew in the Ways because of the taint and the One Power that was used to initially create the Ways. The talisman of growing that was used to extend the Ways. So it's not a servant of the Dark One, but it's definitely on the evil side.


    Question: Would it be cleaned with the Cleansing of saidin?


    RJ: No. Its like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless it's feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it


  19. If Min does die--and I'm not convinced she will--it will have to wait till after the Last Battle. There's been too many viewings she's been a part of to die before/during the battle. First off, she sees her own face around Rand's funeral pyre, so she's alive after he dies; then, we have Nicola's foretelling which says "Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives" (Lord of Chaos, Chapter 14, "Dreams and Nightmares"), so we know she lives after Rand is resurrected and the "great battle" is done.

  20. i dunno about that... the taint is in the ways themselves, i dont think that the way's corruption can come outside the ways... for example, the waygates, havent become corrupted... and theyre directly connected to the ways... i dont think that nym would be effected by the taint of the ways... even if theyre both grown by the talisman of growing...


    By that logic, the outside skin of the Nym wouldn't be corrupted, but the inside might be. :P


    Since the Talisman uses saidin only, I think anything it makes would eventually be tainted.

  21. A few notes on the logic of circular time: has anyone seen the movie Somewhere in Time? This is the basis of how time, as a loop, works. There is a watch the woman has in the past, but gives to the man in the future, who gives it to the woman in the past. Where did the watch come from? Who initially had it? In what time was it actually created?


    All the questions and the answers are pretty much the same with everything in Randland. If time is a Wheel, then there was no beginning. There can be no end. All the items, people, places, histories, will continually repeat. So, it doesn't matter who first had the watch. It exists in both places.


    There are still some Malkieri women at the Tower. I think, when they hear their Uncrowned King stands in Tarwin's Gap, they will go. In particular, Nacelle Kayama is Malkieiri, and Green. Jesse Bilal, the Head of the Green, is still feeling embarrassed for her lack of battle skills when the Seanchan attacked. I think the Greens can go save the Borderlanders. It wouldn't take much prodding for them to Travel to where the action is already happening.


    Morning Mist: Sorry! I've never been pregnant, so don't know for sure! I always though women began to show by three months, though. But, as you said, Nynaeve would have realized something was different in her body--I would think. And if not, I'm sure she would have been delved for various reasons in that time period.

  22. Quote


    I sent your question to Maria (one of Robert Jordan's assistants) and she said "To the best of my knowledge, the soul comes into play at birth." so there you have it. You can't get a better source than Maria!




    there ya have it :D it is possible for brigette to die, and be reborn as one of elaynes babies



    AWESOME, Mark! Thanks for asking that! And Brandon actually answered! That's so cool!


    Though, I have heard theories that Elayne's babies will be Shivan and Calian, the Heroes who bring about the end of an Age:


    ...Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask. He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side (A Crown of Swords, Chapter 21, "Swovan Night".


    Also, I think that the Nym would become corrupted if they were created with the Talisman of growing--like the Ways. We see Someshta is wounded, but I don't think he was corrupted.

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