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Mashiara Sedai

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  1. I'm definitely not saying Rand did it on his own; everyone had their part to play.  That's the wonderful thing about the Pattern, it got what it needed to survive.  Every person was important in their own way and added to a larger whole.  Rereading the ending, you see how essential every character was; you see how everyone needed to be situated just so in order to win.  It's very like the steps that led up to Rand being born on Dragonmount; it's a chain reaction of events and people all working towards the final goal.  The only point I'm arguing is that Mat had to "give up half the light of the world to save the world."  That points to something momentous, something earth shattering.  And Moiraine didn't do anything of that caliber.  She didn't add anything that someone else couldn't have... in my opinion.


  2.  Let's look at these, one by one.  :D

     

    You seem to be glossing over the fact that Moiraine ensured the Dragon's Peace. Rand was about to walk away before she made her grand entrance.

    I don't think Rand would have left.  Egwene was calling his bluff, and he admitted it; but he never would have walked away.  At the same time, if Moiraine hadn't shown up, I don't think Egwene would have been stupid enough to refuse Rand.  I know a lot of people don't like her, but she does have some sense.  So in this, I don't think Moiraine added too much.

     

     

    youve completely forgotten about Knotai(mat).

    For Rand to win (ie: go into Shayol Ghul and defeat the Dark One and Moridin), Mat help was unnecessary.  His aid saved a ton of Aiel, and his maneuvering of the battle cause many to live who would have died, but Rand could have completed his tasks without Mat (at least in my opinion).

     

     

    Moiraine did something that nobody else did, nobody else in the world could possibly have done - be removed from Rand's list of people that died because of him.

     

    I don't think this really factors into anything, since the whole list vanished when Egwene died and told Rand to "let go" (as I quoted above).  Whether or not Moiraine was still on the list, it was Egwene who rid him of the list completely.

     

    I fully believe Moraine's duty was to help establish the Dragon's Peace, saving the world after the DO was defeated.

     

    Perrin was the final mastermind behind the Dragon's Peace, offering a way to include the Aiel.  I don't think Moiraine did anything beside mystify a few people with her Aes Sedai riddles (and I mean that in the nicest way possible).  The meeting would have concluded the same, I'm sure, without Moiraine's timely appearance.

     

    In addition, while Egwene wasn't actually the one to break the seals, it's entirely possible (probably likely) that if Rand hadn't given them to Egwene they never would have been stolen by Taim's lackies (they were taken from Egwene; Rand would have known immediately if he'd still had them) and Logain wouldn't have ended up with them.

    The seals were stolen before Rand gave them to Egwene.  He had been carrying around the fake ones for awhile: "Then it happened before," Rand whispered.  "I didn't look them over carefully after I fetched them.  He knew, somehow, where I'd put them" (A Memory of Light, Chapter 19, "The Choice of a Patch"). 

     

    Perhaps it hasn't happened yet...

    This might be the case, but I agree it's unlikely. 

     

     

    They are all good arguments, but I'm not seeing how Moiraine's interference has led to the "saving" of the world.  I'll go look for Brandon's tweet, to see if that is the case, though.


  3. You may be right, Mark.  Perhaps the others are called Talents as well.  I thought they were called something different, or at least referred to as a talent with a lowercase t.  Either way, Foretelling is only shown as being manifested in channelers, so I think it's safe to assume that it's specific to channelers.  We have no evidence to even suggest otherwise.


  4. Foretelling is Power related.  It is referred to as a Talent which, in Randland, represents something of the Power.

     

    Mark, Min is bonded to Rand, but I think it's the same way a Warder is bonded to an Aes Sedai.  We know someone who can't channel can be bonded in such a way, and I think that was what happened with Min.  We can go back and forth all day long, so I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.  :)


  5. But since she doesn't have the ability, she's not the one actually weaving the weaves of the bond, so she couldn't be able to access either saidar or saidin.  There's a logic to it that mind mind comprehends, but it's difficult to put into words.  A double bond works on two channelers.  Min couldn't be part of a bond like that because she can't channel to begin with.  Does that make sense?


  6. Wallyrocket, you are right!  I had forgotten about that part.  But it raises the question of whether it was a Talent anyone could do (with the double bond), or if it was something only Pevara could do (a Talent, like Foretelling that only she can do).  Or, to phrase it differently, was it something that can happen at any time, or was it a factor of it being the Last Battle with the Pattern getting stretched thin? 

     

    Wotfan, I think that would be a definite advantage of the double bond, too.  But, again, it's not sure if accessing each others Talents is possible.  Say for instance that Elaida became part of a double bond.  Would the Asha'man be able to Foretell too?  Maybe, but maybe not.  Since Talents are tuned to the channeler, I could understand a double bond letting the other person have access to the innermost Talents they possess.  But, with Foretelling, it's hard to say if it would affect the other bonded.  There's plenty of room to speculate.

     

    One other thing I should have mentioned about the single bond: will the Asha'man's wives suffer from the "death rage" if the Asha'man dies?  Are they bonded like a Warder, or is the bond to them different?


  7. My prediction came true they used both the op and the tp to seal the bore

     

    I didn't think the True Power would work, since the Dark One's power shouldn't be able to be used against him.  But I should have realized Rand would buffer it with the One Power--like he buffered saidin with saidar during the cleansing.  I'm glad it happened that way, but I sure didn't predict it.


  8. I agree about Bela and Egwene's death, ahtullai!  They were both very shocking.  Also, I think mark is correct about Elayne's twins.  They might be Calian and Shivan, twin Heroes of the Horn that bring about a new Age.  I think Birgitte was going into the body of someone who was being born that moment.  Elyane still has a few months on her pregnancy.  Also, Gaidal Cain is rumored to be Gadren Grady, Jur Grady's son.


  9. RSA, it was Rand carrying out Moridin's body--Moridin, I think, had his personality fried by channeling so much of the True Power.  He was alive, but fading.  Rand carried out the body, and once outside, he grasped that fine thread that connected the two of them and merged them together, then separating into the opposite body.  That way, Rand (in Moridin's body), recovered since he had no physical wounds.  Moridin (in Rand's body), eventually faded because of too much True Power.

     

    I don't think Moridin had anything in mind but his own desire to cease living.  He didn't do anything that aided the Light.


  10. Metal Head, I think Egwene faced that fear when fighting Mesaana, so probably won't happen again.  I also think she'd be able to beat it, if it does happen (like all the Wise Ones) because she knows how to embrace the pain.  It won't work on her.  They won't be able to break her.  But everything else sounds likely.

     

    Paul, I know a lot of people thought Olver was Gaidal Cain, but Robert Jordan says, "No. I didn't really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though." 


  11. Another thing I thought about is what if Aviendha has her children stilled/gentled at their birth.  The problem with stilling is that a woman knows about the loss of saidar, and the pain of that loss eventually kills her (unless she can find something else to add meaning to her life).  But if you take it away BEFORE they know the wonder of channeling, it couldn't possibly be dangerous.  Imagine if Rand had been cut off, even after the first few times he touched saidin.  He didn't want to touch it again.  If he had been gentled at that time, he wouldn't have died, I don't think.

     

    That being said, I'm not sure how much the babies' actual channeling could affect the fate of the Aiel, but it's an interesting though.


  12. There are several instances when the Wise Ones talk about those caught by the Seanchan.  In Towers of Midnight, Chapter 21, "An Open Gate", it says:

     

    “They have chained Wise Ones,” Edarra said, her too-young face growing dark. She smelled dangerous. Angry but cold, like the smell before a person planned to kill. “Not just Shaido, who deserve their fate. If there is an alliance with the Seanchan, it will end as soon as the Car’a’carn’s work is finished. Already, many of my people speak of a blood feud with these invaders.”

     

    “I doubt Rand wants a war between you,” Perrin said.

     

    “A year and a day,” Edarra said simply. “Wise Ones cannot be taken gai’shain, but perhaps the Seanchan ways are different. Regardless, we will give them a year and a day. If they do not release their captives when we demand them after that time, they will know our spears. The Car’a’carn cannot demand any more from us.”

     

    So, there is the idea that the Shaido, and others caught, will willingly meet their toh, though it's a bit unorthodox, but must be released after the year and a day is up.

     

    I don't think Tuon will give up any damane, under any circumstances.  I think she will agree to not collar more, but that's it.  To forestall the war Aviendha has seen, the Aiel must let this go.  I don't think there's any other way around it.
     


  13. yea, i cant see the aiel submitting to the seanchan... specifically because the seanchan taking their wise ones as damane is an insult to their whole culture... they might make oath to serve the white tower again tho...

     

    That's the point, Mark.  Aviendha needs to make them do something impossible--or perhaps Rand does it (one of his nine impossible things?).  She sees what they become, and if someone else goes through the ter'angreal and sees the same thing, they will know they have to act.  It will hurt their pride for the moment, but it won't destroy them later down the line.


  14. I think Cadsuane is too obvious as a darkfriend.  If it happened, everyone would say, "that makes sense," so there's no real surprise.  Therefore, I think she's probably not a darkfriend.

     

    Ebou Dar as the halls of mourning makes so much sense!  And I think it's implied Mat is going back to Toun, so he'll be walking those halls shortly.

     

    The Broken Wolf... could be Hopper.  Death has known him.  Would that mean that if a wolf dies in Tel'aran'hriod, they don't die permanently (like Hopper thinks) but they turn into Darkhounds?  Or more clearly, if they die in the dream, the DO can access their souls and turn them into Darkhounds.

     

    I can see your logic for Perrin dying, but I really don't think any of the main characters will die.  I wrote this blog explaining why I think Perrin will live.

     

    Lots of good thoughts there, jsimpkins!


  15. Congrats Metal Head!  I was a Storm Leader, and to this day, it was one of the best experience of my life.  I actually got to sit beside Brandon Sanderson and share a meal with him.  INCREDIBLE!  I hope it's an all around pleasant experience for you.

     

    For the longest time I thought Alivia had to be one of the female forsaken in disguise, but none of them logically fit.  So, that's out.  If she was a high up darkfriend--like Taim--I think Cyndane would have recognized her, or at least known of her, and her presence with Rand's group. 

     

    Perhaps she is some important Seanchan official; she had the blood of Hawkwing inside her which made her able to shake free from her captivity when it was presented.  It's possible.  But I'm still leaning towards her being evil in some way, or in the very least, serving the will of the sul'dam still.


  16. NeekNack, I'm not sure about that.  I'm thinking that Sorilea's words about Semirhage being "human" was the clue to breaking her, so Sorilea aided in the breaking of one of the Forsaken.  No darkfriend would dare to do that.  They put themselves up over other darkfriends, but they all bow down low when one of the Forsaken come around.  Perhaps Sorilea was just playing the part, but again, she did give the final clue to break Semirhage, so would share in the blame by the rest of the Forsaken.  I don't think that's something any darkfriend would do.


  17. I'm currently on my Towers of Midnight reread, so I'm not 100% sure, but has Rand seen Alivia after his epiphany?  Actually, after a quick check on my Kindle, Alivia's name isn't even mentioned in Towers of Midnight.

     

    Sorilea works so hard to protect Rand, and has such contempt for Semirhage; she doesn't seem like darkfriend material to me.  But I could be totally wrong on that one.

     

    The term "help" can bee seen as positive, but Rand knows he's going to die.  He thinks it is necessary.  So, since he goes in with that mindset, even Fain, or one of the Forsaken could "help" him die.


  18. Demonchild, I agree.  I think that's what Rand's plan is, to use the True Power, rather than saidar and saidin, to touch the Dark One and hold him in place.  Lews Therin says that he used saidin to touch the Dark One during the sealing, so Rand knows he has to use something to hold him--and he won't want it to be the One Power because he'll be afraid they will get tainted again.  However, I think this desire to use the True Power will be Rand's downfall.  I don't think it will work the way he thinks it will because it is the Dark One's own power.  Perhaps after this mistake, saidar and saidin linked can protect one another if used together.


  19. What if in order to remake the DO's prison takes the Melding of booth sides of the OP and the TP?

     

    if the TP is the DO as lews suggests... "it's him!"... i dont see how you could use the DO against the DO... seems kinda contradictory...

     

    Robert Jordan said, "No, the Dark One is not pure True Power."  So I think Lews Therin realized it was the POWER of the Dark One, not necessarily the Dark One himself.  It's a fine distinction, but there is a difference between the two.

     

    Also, I agree that Moiraine should have recognized Luc, and Isam as well.  Nynaeve said Slayer's Isam form looked like Lan.  Moiraine would have said something if the man had looked like Lan.

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