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Mashiara Sedai

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  1. This interview with Robert Jordan talks about Aginor's desire to channel the Eye of the World. Jordan's reply seems to fit in with the Eye being a pool of saidin. Those quotes by Ba'alzamon lead me to believe that the Eye was definitely more than just saidin. It could be protecting the seals, as Aielyn said in the comments two weeks ago. It could be that Rand used it for the wrong purpose. It did destroy the Shadowspawn army and bring an end to the crazy weather--for a time--so maybe the actual channeling didn't matter, only the fact that it was used.
  2. @Philip in Richmond That's a good point. She could be trying to mislead Agelmar. But, there's no reason for it. Agelmar, like most Borderlanders, respects and honors Aes Sedai. He wouldn't have pried into her affairs at all. So, there was no point in mislead him. @pandemonium I agree, refilling the Eye is a stretch. But I did want to throw it out there because it's been discussed before. @jack of shadows I agree that those veins were probably there for awhile, though no from birth. I think that it's the effect of the connection with the Creator through the Eye that gave Rand a sort of immunity. But, iIs it Nynaeve's increased ability that finally revealed the veins, or did they appear suddenly because Rand accepted Lews Therin's memories?
  3. Welcome back to "WoT If?". This week will conclude our in-depth look at The Eye of the World. There are only a few more pieces of information that need to be examined, so there might be some hopping around from subject to subject. As always: Spoiler warning! This will include content from many books in the series, including Towers of Midnight, and speculation about A Memory of Light. Please read at your own risk. First off, there's something curious about these last few chapters with regards to Moiraine having been to the Eye of the World before. I think there is a lot of information here. But let's take a step back and try to figure out when Moiraine went to the Eye the first time. We know that she goes up to the Borderlands right after being raised to Aes Sedai. So, after leaving the Tower, Moiraine has traveled for three months. During this scene, she's in Kandor—which lies between Arafel and Saldaea. The whole second half of the novel takes place in Kandor. It's not very close to the location in the Blight where she takes the Emond's Fielders. However, it's been three months, so that's plenty of time to get up there. I'm also assuming Moiraine went without Lan. Notice how Agelmar addresses her only. Maybe Lan would keep quiet about it, letting Moiraine hold onto that Aes Sedai secrecy, but when the Green Man first appears, he says: The Green Man would have included Lan in this statement if he had been with her the first time. Also, note that the Green Man calls her "Sedai," so her visit to him would have been after being raised, but the lack of Lan's presence would suggest that it was before she bonded him. That only leaves the three month window for her to go up to the Blight—alone?—to seek the Eye of the World. Why would she go there? She heard the Foretelling about Rand's birth, and is one of the few searchers who wasn't killed. Obviously, she's looking for signs that would indicate which child he is, but she's also looking for answers. There are several instances throughout the series when Moiraine disappears to find answers. Would the Green Man have any answers, though? His memory is fading and tattered because of his injury. He remembers enough to recognize Perrin as a Wolfbrother, and he remembers the hair and eye coloring of the Aiel. But, when pressed, he can't recall any specific details about anything. Also, there's no reference to the Eye of the World in the prophecies of the Dragon. Moiraine doesn't even plan on going there until Perrin, Loial, and Rand all bring it up while staying at The Queen's Blessing (The Eye of the World, Chapter 42, "Remembrance of Dreams"). Was she just desperate, searching any possible place for leads? Her need was great enough to summon the Green Man the first time, so maybe he was able to give her something helpful. What of Moiraine's statement, "I have something those other seekers have not"? Rand notes that she half-looks at Loial as she says this. Is there something significant about having an Ogier among the group? Loial notes that the Green Man doesn't avoid Ogier the way he avoids humans (The Eye of the World, Chapter 46, "Fal Dara"). So, maybe Loial's presence will help draw the Green Man, but would it be enough that it would counter Moiraine's meeting him already? I think it's more likely that Rand is mistaken and she was actually going to look at him. Since he is the Dragon Reborn—and Moiraine knows that by this point—he would be the best to summon the Green Man and the Eye. Here's another unanswered question: is there a possibility the Eye could be refilled? I'll admit, with the taint cleansed from saidin, there might not be a need for a second Eye of the World. However, Moiraine puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that both men and women channelers are needed to make a pool of the Power. This balance between men and women is a reoccurring theme throughout the series. With the addition of Light-aligned Asha'man and fealty-bound Aes Sedai, we are beginning to discover what happens with the combination of saidar and saidin. But why would Moiraine get so wordy about how females alone can't "fill a spoon with the Power"? I'd call this foreshadowing. What would be the purpose of a second, or refilled, Eye of the World? As discussed two weeks ago, I think it's possible the Eye is a connection to a) the Creator, and b) Rand's past lives. If the Power inside is restored, Rand could hear the ALL CAPS voice again. Either that, or he could allow someone else to be connected to their past lives. Would it be necessary for the Last Battle? Probably not. But it could help the Light side by giving Rand access to the Creator or other channelers' past memories. Another unanswered question at the end of The Eye of the World revolves around Rand's channeling abilities. He uses many weaves as he fights off the Shadowspawn in Tarwin's Gap, and some when he's fighting Ba'alzamon. There's even the Traveling/Skimming weaves Rand uses to get from one place to the next. How does he make these weaves? I see two possibilities: either it's Lews Therin's memories Rand's acquired through the Power of the Eye, or it's the instinctual channeling that wilders typically learn. We see examples of Egwene and Nynaeve using weaves instinctually. There is a good example of Egwene doing this, and knowing she's doing this, in The Dragon Reborn. Because of this, it's easy to see that Rand could be doing all these weaves based on instincts. However, it could also be argued that Egwene and Nynaeve can do so many things without being taught because they are remembering fragments of their past lives too. The Old Blood is strong in both of them, and if they are able to draw on Manetheren's strength, they might be able to draw on Manetheren's memories as well. I think this is plausible because of the fact that Egwene is aware of this happening. When Nynaeve was channeling by instinct as Wisdom, she didn't know she was using the Power. Moiraine points out how the channeling works as the result of the channeler's will, subconsciously. This shows that wilders, who don't know they can channel, use the Power instinctively. This is a big difference from Egwene—and Rand—using weaves they haven't learned. I think this is good evidence that Nynaeve and Egwene are important people reborn. Personally, I believe Nynaeve is Eldrene ay Ellan ay Carlan, Queen of Manetheren. Let's move on to the final mystery: what are those cords that connect to Rand and the Forsaken? Rand first sees the cord attached to Aginor when the Forsaken is drawing on the Eye of the World. During this scene, the cord transfers from Aginor to Rand. And once Rand has it, he burns from the Power and Light it gives him. Because of this, the cord must be the Power of the Eye. The cord is the metaphysical connection from Rand to the Power. This raises the question of whether it's a specialty of the Eye to have this sort of connection, or if it's Rand's actual connection to saidin. We know there is no physical link between a channeler's body and the Source—Nynaeve muses on this when she Heals stilling. And Rand admits that "it was not there to see." So, what is he actually looking at? Rand sees a cord connecting to Ba'alzamon too: Ba'alzamon's seems to be the exact opposite of Rand's, except it doesn't dwindle as the Power is used. The more Rand channels, the smaller his cord gets. Ba'alzamon's doesn't shrink at all. So, if the cord is Rand's connection to the Eye, what is Ba'alzamon's attached to? Could it be that the cord is similar to the "wires" Rand removes from Asmodean in The Shadow Rising? Rand's assuming that he cut Ba'alzamon off from the Dark One when he severed the black cord at the end of The Eye of the World. Does that mean Ba'alzamon was reconnected later? Or, if not, is it the reason Ishamael uses so much True Power now? And if the black cord/wire is the link to the Dark One, the cord of Light must be the connection to the Creator. This could be more evidence that the ALL CAPS voice is the Creator. Well, there weren't too many definite answers, and it only led to more questions. That will conclude my ramblings for this week. Next week, we'll take a look at the glass columns ter'angreal and Aviendha's journey through it.
  4. I got the impression he was gay, as well. I thought that was one of the reasons he keeps putting her off. No spoilers, so I won't say more. But, yeah, Breeze is heterosexual. ~Mashiara
  5. The forward of The Gathering Storm says, "Mr. Jordan did write this ending himself before he passed away, and I have read it. And it is fantastic." Brandon Sanderson is also a fan of the series, and I'd say he's a good judge about the conclusion. If he thinks it's "fantastic," then I bet we will all agree.
  6. A "fantasy" literary fiction novel by Haruki Murakai, called 1Q84, is the best book outside WoT that I've ever read. Murakami is a wonderful author to begin with, but this is his masterpiece. The characters are so pefectly complex and compelling. Typical of Murakami, the plot has some strange and "fantasy-ish" twists, but are so gripping. I've never read anything quite like it. It's perfection. Peacesells, I also really enjoyed the Apprentice Adept series. I loved the mix of magic and technology.
  7. Ireond, come join us in the White Ajah. That could be a good discussion. :P
  8. :P I think Luna Lovegood said it best: "a circle that has no beginning."
  9. Lews Therin makes sense. After the epiphany and accepting Lews Therin's--and all his past lives--memories, Rand's mind seems free from madness. That connection also gave him so much knowledge from the Age of Legends and beyond. But I also think Snowball could be right. This series has gone on for 22 years. It's understandable that plots have shifted from what was originally planned.
  10. Basel's got a point. However, even if we still had Niel, or he was replaced, I'm sure he would have been lynched that day. And after that, all we would have needed was one more NK and we would have knocked Town down to 4 players.
  11. He's only viewing the scene through the eyes of Jonai, his ancestor. Rand would recognize it, but the Aielman wouldn't.
  12. You are absolutely right! I can't believe I left off the italics! From that, I would gather the thought is coming from inside Rand. Italics in a novel mean the words are internal thoughts. That would lead me to believe it's Lews Therin, or some other form of the Dragon's Soul, or that the Creator is INSIDE Rand and speaks through him...
  13. Nyanna was on to me from the beginning, I think. I'm bad at not being suspicious. But you were too vocal about it, Mish. That's why we took you out. :P
  14. Yeah, no hard feelings, right? Sorry everyone we lynched and NK'ed! At least it was a fun ride.
  15. So, the Creator does want to "slay the Eye of the World" and kill time? If that's the case, the Dark One wants the same thing. Are they working together?
  16. Welcome back to another edition of "WoT If?". As promised last week, we're going to take a closer look at who the ALL CAPS voice is at the end of The Eye of the World and what exactly its message means. Spoiler warning! This will include content from many books in the series, including Towers of Midnight, and speculation about A Memory of Light. Please read at your own risk. Let's start with a look at the quote we'll be examining. Here's just a quick reminder of what's been going on up to this point. Rand and Aginor both tried to draw the Power of the Eye. Aginor, I'd assume, was consumed by the Eye, or perhaps drew too much of the One Power. Either way, Rand took the Power, and Traveled to Tarwin's Gap where Lord Agelmar's men were fighting the assembled Trollocs, Fades, and Draghkar. Rand lashed out at the Shadowspawn with the Power from the Eye. Then: What the words mean depends on who is speaking. So, let's start with the obvious choice: the Creator. Many assume it's the Creator because of the similarity to the ALL CAPS way the Dark One talks to the Forsaken. If one Deity speaks that way, it's safe to assume the other half does as well. After all, the Wheel of Time world is based on balance. So, what else makes us think it's the Creator? First, Rand is filled with Light and Power, which we associate with the Creator, because he is Light. Also, we know that the Dragon Reborn is the Light's Champion (Lord of Chaos, Chapter 6, "Threads Woven of Shadow"), so we know the Creator is on his side. But, we have a quote from Robert Jordan talking about the contact between Rand and the Creator: From the sounds of this, the ALL CAPS voice can't possibly be the Creator. But in another interview, the subject comes up again with a kind of different answer: Is this second statement contradictory? Well, even if the Creator can't influence Randland, it doesn't necessarily mean he's not interested. Let's assume for a moment that it is the Creator. What the heck does it all mean? The first thing the voice says is, "It is not here." Before that line, Rand says, "This has to end!"; "this" meaning the war between himself and Ba'alzamon, between the Light and the Shadow. So the "it" refers to the same thing, by the laws of English grammar. The voice is telling him the fight won't take place here. That's logical because the next thing that happens is Rand climbing a set of stairs (similar to his Skimming experience chasing Asmodean in The Shadow Rising, Chapter 58, "The Traps of Rhuidean"), which take him to Ba'alzamon. Next, "I will take no part." This coincides with what Robert Jordan said about the Creator taking no active role. "Only the chosen one can do what must be done, if he wills." The chosen one is Rand; what must be done is fighting the Shadow (maybe even Tarmon Gai'don). The "if he wills" is interesting because that seems to be a major theme within the series. There are times when Rand wants to leave or do something different, but feels like the pattern forces him. Tam points out to him that he still has a choice: The voice of the Creator, too, seems to imply Rand has a choice. Who else could the voice be? Well, since the only other place we see ALL CAPS is from the Dark One, is it possible that it's the Dark One? I know, I know. Why would the Dark One talk to Rand at all? Also, it might not even be possible because Rand's not close enough to the Bore. However, Robert Jordan said Rand and the Creator had no connection, so it might be possible. If it was the Dark One, what does it mean? Rand's declaration of "This has to end!" can be answered by the Dark One in much the same way. "It is not here," means the battle between the Dark One's Champion and Rand cannot happen here and now. "I will take no part" might be true for the Dark One as well. The Bore into his prison is quite small, to my understanding. Even if the seals all break, he can't just leap out—or else he would have done so during the War of the Shadow. He could only influence small events, and that's mostly because of his ability to communicate with the Forsaken one-on-one. When the seals fail, he still might not be able to take part, leaving his Nae'blis, Moridin, to battle as his Champion. Again, in a world based on balance, it seems likely that it will come down to a fight between the two Champions. And what of "Only the chosen one…"? It never says which chosen one. It could just as easily be talking about Ishamael—who claimed to be the Champion in past Ages. There are a few points against this theory. First, Rand's not filled with ecstasy as the voice talks to him. In every scene we see of the Forsaken talking to the Dark One, they are overcome with the pleasure of his voice. That's completely missing from this description. Also, motivation. Why would the Dark One want to talk to Rand at all? Besides the obvious two, who else could the voice possibly be? Well, what about Lews Therin, or some other past life of Rand's? The Soul of the Dragon, if you will. This one might seem a bit of a stretch, but it could work. Let's focus on the phrase, "Only the chosen one…". If this was a stream of consciousness—from the Power of the Eye—between Rand and his past/future lives, the chosen one could refer to Rand himself. Why was it Rand, not Lews Therin, or any previous incarnation, who was spun out to fight the Last Battle? Why was it so important for it to be Rand in this situation? We get pretty strong implications that every detail of Rand's life helped shape him into who and what he needs to be to win. It had to be Rand, not Lews Therin. Here's why: So, out of all the previous/future lives of the Dragon, Rand is the Chosen One. He had to be this version of the Dragon in order to win the Last Battle. It's a combination of Rand and the people around him that will be able to defeat the Dark One during Tarmon Gai'don. The phrase "I will take no part" makes sense too. Because it can't be Lews Therin, or the next Dragon, it can only be Rand himself. However, if it was the Dragon's Soul talking, why is it in ALL CAPS? When Lews Therin begins to appear in Rand's mind, he doesn't talk in ALL CAPS. Perhaps it's just the Power of the Eye broadcasting the Dragon's Soul's message loud and clear? Okay, there's one other option I thought of in terms of the voice. I'm sure there's more, and I hope they'll get posted in the comments section. My last idea is that the voice could be a recorded message from the Aes Sedai who made the Eye. We see only a little bit of detail about the making of the Eye in The Shadow Rising, when Rand goes through the Glass Columns in Rhuidean. From this, we see that the Aes Sedai—all women—have Callandor and the Dragon's Banner. Because they have those items, I'm assuming they have the Horn of Valere, as well. Which means they are the ones planning on making the Eye. The later quote shows that they are including men in the circle to clean the bit of saidin inside the Eye. With these Aes Sedai gathering, giving up their life force to cleanse the Eye, is it possible they left behind a message? I think so. The "I will take no part" phrase is very accurate; the voice is there to give a message, a hint, not do anything active with the Power. They would also know "it is not here" because the Eye was given to the Green Man, which is close to the Bore, but not right next to it. "Only the chosen one…" makes sense too. They knew, by Foretelling, that Rand would be born and would need those items. The only counter I can argue is that the voice refers to itself as "I" not "we." Perhaps the group of Aes Sedai picked one member to leave the message, though. Hopefully, the question of who the ALL CAPS voice is will be answered in A Memory of Light. I think there's still a few random tidbits to theorize about in regards to the conclusion of The Eye of the World. So, next week, we'll have a third—and final—installment focusing on the Eye.
  17. *goes north before something bad happens with the rope and pulley*
  18. How am I the most adament? I haven't even voted you. I agree that you've said some suspicious things, but I'm more than willing to listen to your reasoning. I wasn't the one who started jumping on you. I'm more suspicious of Tam and Marsh. And I'm suspicious of them because they aren't posting, which you didn't for a long time.
  19. No one responded 'cause you didn't tell us much. I waited after your first post because you said you didn't have time to do it. Then the next post says you have lots of things--"30 quotes"--to say, but you didn't say anything except you'll reveal yourself if you have to. I'm willing to listen, and to Tam and Marsh, too. But you have to say something of substance.
  20. *snuggle up with the chicken and the egg on the bench, then goes to sleep*
  21. Darn. I wanted to jump out a window and fly. :( *takes egg out of hair and puts it in my shawl, where it's warmer. Goes east*
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