Don;t forget only people the Shadow can turn are who can channel but anyone is vulnerable to compulsion.  So what is it about being able to channel that leaves one vulnerable?

As soon as a male showed signs of being able to channel the Red was sent after him.  So in many instances the Black would've had no chance to turn him,  since the Red is out looking for males.  Normally they would be sent to the tower which would make it impossible to kidnap them.  There was the chance of them accidently turning the Dragon which would've pissed Ishy off.  He killed of the head of the Black Ajah for sending Aes Sedai to gentle males on the spot.  

She probably didn't have to say anything.  Three Black oaths are simple;

1. I shall obey all commands given by those placed above me in service to the Great Lord;
2. I shall prepare for the day of the Great Lord's return;
3. I shall hold close the secrets of the Black Ajah, unto the hour of my death.

So if someone "above" her demanded, she would have to comply.  But if someone she didn't feel was above her asked, she could lie her butt off if she wished.  It would also come down to how it was asked.  Did the person above her give her a command to say what she brought back or was it a simple question?  There is nothing saying she had to report anything to anybody.  

The only people who are aware of most things would be Alviarin and the "council" but even then we see the forsaken make a mess of things by going directly to individual Aes Sedai.

The tingle could also have been her channeling to keep her disguise up etc.  She seems reluctant to use compulsion on Rand, with her whole she wants him to come to her freely.

Alot of Fain's ability was simply being around the dagger for so long.  Anyone who stayed near him too long, like the whitecloaks assigned to him, would get corrupted.  He didn't break DF's bonds, he simply manipulated them.  Most Df's would have no idea he has gone rogue and wouldn't question what he did or said.  Not to mention being terrified of him.  We saw in book 2 the Df's saw Fain as the only protection against the Trollocs.  After you watch a guy murder a fade you sort of quietly follow and don't really challenge him.  Fain isn't a Ta'vern, he just had the misfortune of chasing three of them, so he was going to get pulled into certain situations.  

Why is Amazon doing it?  $$$$$$ People are less likely to get upset paying extra for no commercials then if they raised subscription costs again.  Yes some won't pay it, but customers are less likely to end their subscription over it.  This way Amazon makes more money in a way that's less likely to upset their customers.  It's basicly the same as raising subscription costs but just in a more discreet way.

If I watched more on Prime I might pay it, but as it is Prime doesn't offer many free movies.  It seems like a lot of what they push you need to download another app for like Tubi/Freevee etc or the only option is to buy/rent.  I won't pay $2.99 a month just to watch WOT which might not be out for another 2 years and IMO is just an ok series.

Anytime Ishy was spun out he started something to ensure the world wouldn't unite and keep things in chaos.  Getting Hawkwing to turn against Aes Sedai and then the war over his empire, Trolloc Wars, then a 2nd Trolloc War to try and destroy Hawkwing's empire, etc.  Ishy would always do/start something to try and destroy what was being built.

On 12/22/2023 at 3:21 PM, Aan-Alone said:

Do you, by chance, have a link these notes? Until your post, I had heard this was only a rumor.

Sorry for the late reply, it's also in the Origins of the Wheel of Time Book where it also shows Taimadred was the original one to kill Asmo,  

Halima killed for a few reasons,

1, Anyone who might be able to poke holes in her story.

2. To spread distrust of the Asha'man and Rand.  She wanted to kill any chance of an alliance between male and female channelers.  

3. She killed Egwene's maids Miri and Selame since they were spies for others and she worried they might see or overhear something to endanger herself.  

4. But her main goal was to promote mistrust and to control/influence one of the major power centers.

But we know from RJ's notes that Taim-andred was real and he was the one that originally killed Asmo.

The simple fact is Rand had way too much going on to also try and fix the BT.   He knew Taim was up to something he just didn't know how far Taim had turned to the shadow.  

An entire episode in season 1 getting us invested in a warder just to kill him at the end was pointless.  Morianes family, while interesting and I enjoyed, was pointless because that time took away from developing the main characters.  Rand running errands for Logian really didn't add much.  In a short 8 episode series such as WOT, time matters.  I understand giving the characters some depth, but they have too little time and they spend too much time focusing on side issues at the expense of the main story and characters.  The last episode of season 2 showed the cost of the extra stuff being added by leaving the episode feeling like a hurried mess.  Where the key details were rushed through and things lacked impact and understanding.

Budget doesn't matter as long at Amazon stays to the stupid 8 episode season.  Unless they make each episode 2 hrs (which I fear Rafe would just waste on pointless stuff).  It might make the CGI less horrendous.

On 10/2/2023 at 1:08 PM, CaddySedai said:

I am of the opinion than any Wheel of Time and Wheel of Time adjacent content is good content. 

 

I mean they could have done us dirty like what happened to RoP. You think our fanbase is vocal? Eep. 

 

That said even the most faithful of adaptations would have found detractors. Less? Probably. But all good things are subject to the winds of change. 

 

The current winds dictate the current adaptation. Perhaps in the future should there remain demand for such - we could see a retelling. 

 

I mean Max is about to reboot Potter and totally hijack one of the greatest movie scores of all time lol. And their fandom just got a new banger of a video game. 

 

I would kill for a new video game in our fandom. 

 

I want content, I want to grow, I detest stagnation. 

 

I mean look at Star Wars - my kin in that fanbase had to suffer through so much shovelware just for a few gemstones. And its not a Disney only problem - this goes back to Lucas era. Disney just has had the unfortunate ability to produce so MANY turds in such a small window. Lucas really had to stew on his. lol. 

 

People coming to vent is also content. So carry on. 

ROP wasn't great, an average series to me.  But some of the complaints about ROP isn't fair simply because the The Tolkien Estate imposed creative restrictions on the series and limited the lore and resources, plus Amazon only bought the rights to LOTR and the Hobbit.  They were forced to get most of the information for the series from those.  They had no choice but to make a lot of stuff up.  WOT pretty much had no such restrictions.  

On 9/20/2023 at 2:18 PM, SinisterDeath said:

That's why they bring him to Rhuidean.

He doesn't get his Markings until he goes to Rhuidean.

You asked why would he go to the Wastes?

They're looking for the Car'a'carn. I made a quip that they saw a dragon in the sky.
We don't know where the "stone" comes into the TV show as of yet as that's part of the Prophecy of the Car'a'carn. 

We know that they are camped out in Falme in the show.

*edit*

The biggest issue is the show has made no mention of the markings or why they're important.  He has one now but the show did nothing to set up why the markings matter.  Seriously they could simply leave the markings out and non book readers would be none the wiser.  

Tear is simply not needed, he can use the waygate near Falme if needed, Going to Tear to grab a sword they have made no mention of would be a waste of time now.  Since next season will focus on Book4 and maybe some of 5, there isn't much time to explain Rand going to Tear.  You know half the next season will be wasted time anyway.

In the companion I think that mentions female trollocs stay in the blight and are mostly used to breed.  

I don't always agree with Brandon, but I think he was spot on with most of what he had to say in the video.  Especially all the added drama stuff like Moirianes family (while cool) stole the time for the important character building stuff.  It's what season 1 suffered with, a whole episode of getting us involved in a warder to have him die at the end, it was interesting, but the cost was building the main people to get the audience interested and to care about them.  

But I think he was pretty spot on with what was good and weak about the season and episode.  

Not to mention they all agree the series needs more episodes.  Amazon is sabotaging the series by keeping it 8.  Assuming the show spent the extra time in the right places, 

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

The Horn gave Mat his memories back. Him blowing it is how the writers are going to level Mat up, give him his luck, make him a better fighter, etc. That was the purpose.

 

The problem is, for someone who hasn't read the books they have to be wondering why the horn was so important.  He blew the horn, some ghosts, showed up, Uno and Mat are heroes of the Horn, Mat gave the Horn away, and they fought the bad guys.  Why exactly is that so important to defeating the DO?

8 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I am really intrigued when people say this, what screen time was wasted, what elements would you have cut out? 

Ran fetching wine for Logain,  Ishy meeting with Min, the Ishy giving Mat tea was rather useless, some of the Liladrian backstory hiding her son could have been removed.  They often spend more time covering a secondary character then they do the main characters.  To me that's just a few examples of wasted screen time.  

16 hours ago, The Bandit Queen said:

Certain things also make sense to be cut. Igtar being a dark friend and his speech was awesome in the books. It would have fell flat on screen though because there isn’t enough time to build that arc up.

They had time, they just wasted the time on other stuff.  How long did they spend on Nyn in the street unable to heal ELayne?  Season 1 they spent a whole episode on a warder thatthey killed at the end of the episode.  They waste a lot of time on needless stuff and rush through the important stuff.  They could have added more for Igtar during the season but instead wasted it on Rand fetching wine for Logain, Min meeting Ishy etc.  Things that added nothing and went nowhere.

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

No Barney leaving meant they didn’t have to it make small changes, but rip up the scripts they had and completely re write them, with very little notice, while also having to rewrite entire scenes due to Covid restrictions only allowing a certain number of people on set at any one time. 
 

Barney leaving also meant they had to rip up season 2 and rewrite it again from scratch based on the changes to season 1 finale. The original season 2 script followed TGH with the boys chasing the horn, the moment Matt had to stay in tar Valon Rafe and the writers had to shift the story to split the boys up. So yes, a major character dripping out for what was for him going to be some major scenes at the end did impact things and so in the moment they went with loial being stabbed, we don’t know if it was a writing decision, a decision made on the day by the director, who it was that did it and how it slipped through both Rafe and Sarah, but I will take on face value that all of the above led to the mistake, Rafe has owned the mistake by saying “it was a mistake” and is moving on without wasting effort retconning it, I am fine with that .

I simply can't buy the actor leaving as an excuse for the mistake about the, had anyone been in charge of continuity they should have caught this.  Three years have passed from COVID and the actor leaving to the season 2 airing.   The actor left before season 1 had finished filming, so there should have been minimal impact for season 2.  Do we know that the actor leaving led to them deciding to have Loial stabbed? It's unlikely Mistakes happen (like a Starbucks cup in a Game of Throne episode).  But seriously someone should have noticed the dagger got a major power boost from season 1 to season 2.  This isn't something small like he uses a dagger in his left hand one season and next season It's in his right hand.  This is it goes from a normal stab wound to death wounds plus the ability to cut through stone.  Seems hard to blame COVID for that.  They could have easily just went with it gives normal wounds but it corrupts the person holding it, instead of upping the power.  The problem is saying "COVID Mistake" is just a lazy excuse to deflect from the writing.

Season 2 is better than season 1, but suffers from the same flaws.  The pacing is horrible with minor things taking up a lot of time and key events being just rushed past.  The last few episodes of season 2 IMO were the weakest.  Too many changes that weren't needed like Siuan going from the dragon must be free to he needs to be held captive until the last battle.  Or the sense that anytime something happens they need Ishy or Lanfear there.  Ishy taking an interest in Min?  Rand just looking weak and needing a rescue anytime he faces a challenge.  Ingtars death meant nothing.  It just felt really disjointed, with it seeming like they would toss in a line from the book here and there which seemed forced.  Just like with season 1, there was nothing about season 2 that makes me feel like I need to go back and watch the season again.  So far the series has left me feeling like ok I've seen it, time to move on.  I will watch season 3 but I don't really care when it comes out.

52 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Was it weird that the people of Falme were cheering the dragon banner?  I don’t remember their reactions in the book.

In the book there wasn't much about the average person in Falmes reaction.  With a battle being fought, the heroes of the horn running about, and a fight in the skies.  The dragon returning was a source of dread, so it's unlikely everyone would have been cheering.  Some would have been excited, but I would guess for the average person it would have been pretty scary moment.

5 hours ago, Samt said:

Exactly.  I'm not even saying this tongue in cheek.  The show is actually pretty good mindless entertainment.  It's like in the Expendables where we have an ensemble cast and we give everybody a cool fight scene.  The setup and stakes are not particularly important.  The bad guys don't have to make sense or even really feel coherent.  Shoulder firing a minigun is completely okay and the rule of cool dominates. And the fight scenes are kind of cool.  And when the mood strikes, I find this type of entertainment quite enjoyable.  

 

I always found the WoT book series to be much more cerebral.  Of course, books are naturally a little more cerebral by nature and it's not like the books are without oversights and plot inconsistencies.  But the show has really leaned into the idea that it's just a bit of mindless fun and the plot and lore aren't really important.  

This is what frustrates me so much about the show.  They can have such a great scene such as Moghi and Lanfear, showing how dangerous Moghi is and showing the Forsaken don't like each other.  That makes you think wow this is good.  Then can totally botch stuff other stuff like Min being told what to do by Ishy? 

Rafe said the Ishy death was basically Ishy getting his wish to finally die.  He doesn't want to live so saw no reason to fight.  He succeeded in finally making LTT kill him. 

Still seemed like a very anti climatic, disappointing fight/ending.

Another issue is when a male is going mad, not many are trying to take them alive.  Few would willingly submit themselves to be binded.  Telling them they can't channel or something of the sort would be the same as gentling them, a fate few would willingly give into.

21 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

It has to do with Barney Harris quitting the show. They had to re-write the last episodes entirely and restructure all of Season 2. COVID restrictions came into play in terms of what they were and were not able to depict due to "social distancing" requirements in place at the time. 

 

 

COVID is why they had to change the Tarwins Gap fight, the actor leaving changes what they were going to have Mat do in Episode 1.  It should have zero to do with making the dagger do totally opposite things when it hits someone.  

17 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Yeah, I get that that’s how they are in the books but they clearly aren’t that in the show.  I’m trying to figure out how her visions work since she kind of botched this one.

Whenever you notice something is wrong, just go to the shows default COVID mistake excuse.