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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Elessar

RP - LEGACY
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News item Comments posted by Elessar

  1. This is a wonderful scene and to be frank it is scenes like this which would make The Wheel of Time show even better. It is not technically necessary for the story but adds context, texture, detail, history and dwells for a moment with these two characters and makes us care and wonder. We all know that the plot needs to progress with the huge story there is to tell but making each episode say 10 minutes longer, adding a few such wonderful dwelling moments, would, I believe, improve the end product and enjoyment for everyone. The Wheel of Time deserves no less.

  2. On 6/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, Wise One Yenna said:

    As far as fidelity goes, S1 stuck to the books VERY closely compared to most book to screen adaptations, again excepting the finale, which was understandable. 

     

    Sorry but I do not agree. Rather I believe the opposite, this adaptation is not faithful but very loose which is why many fans are critical and unhappy. Game of Thrones Season 1 was way way more faithful to the source material than the Wheel of Time Season 1, also the Lord of the Rings movies were more faithful adaptations and similarly the first few Harry Potter movies. You can be pretty sure that Season 2 of the Wheel of Time will be way less faithful than Season 2 of Game of Thrones was.

     

    Some Wheel of Time fans don't mind, some even want more changes and prefer a loose adaptation, but many fans are unhappy because they want to see a true adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time (and yes, some changes are always necessary for the visual medium, but not what many deem almost amounts to fan fiction in the same universe). Dropping say Rivendell in the Lord of the Rings movies but having Frodo travelling to Mordor with the One Ring would also keep the 'heart of the story' but would still make many fans frustrated/critical and rightly so. The trailers for the coming Lord of the Rings tv show indicate another loose adaptation with many changes to that world and its lore which many fans already criticize on Youtube. Some would say all this is a product of our times.

     

    Season 1 of the Wheel of Time had many problems reg. writing, choices, changes, pacing, lack of necessary lore etc and also too few episodes as you mention, and even fans who enjoyed it as a separate version of canon mostly agreed this was a new Turning of the Wheel. For fans of the books who want a faithful adaptation it does not bode well that everything points at Season 2 and onwards deviating even more from the books. As everyone knows the more changes you make at the start, the worse it becomes later with storylines deviating etc. The end result easily becomes totally different than it should have been. One therefore must take care not to make too many changes too soon.

     

    One should not be surprised that a portion of the fanbase are deeply concerned. Personally I think this adaptation needs at least 10 seasons or more and needs lots more episodes pr season than any other current fantasy adaptation because of the huge source material which f.ex. dwarfs Game of Thrones as is mentioned above. I have through the years doubted whether this story could or should be adapted to the screen because I have feared it is too difficult to do sufficiently well because of the enormous source material (14 books), much internal POV in the books, incredible detail and sophistication which I feared would be overlooked by showrunners or changed, but I was moderately excited when I heard there would be a tv show and thought I would give it a chance.

     

    Now having experienced Season 1, which was ok but far from what it could have been, I am still highly uncertain whether it is possible to do this momentous fantasy story justice or whether the task is simply too huge especially within a thin 8 season 8 episode framework. I will watch Season 2 next year and see how that goes - and I too do believe the showrunners have the best of intentions with their work, more a question of ability and choices and fidelity to canon - but like many fans I am concerned and uncertain if this will ever do Robert Jordan's majestic work and legacy justice.

  3. I don't know how I ever missed this Towers of Midnight trailer, 10 years ago when it was posted or ever since, having been highly active (RP) here at DM more or less all those years, but this is the first time I ever watched it. And I must say, it is awesome! Great job, Jason et al! And Sarah, what a brilliant Moiraine you made in this clip, that close-up eye-picture above is simply mesmerizing!

  4. 3 hours ago, DominoWolfsister said:

     Agree that Geofram is not the bad guy this article want to say he is. I believe they may have confused him with the fanatical Jaret Byar he appears with and later sends to his son. 

     

    Personally I think Geofram Bornhald is mentioned as a 'bad guy' in the article because the Whitecloaks on the whole are considered villains (despicable ones at that) by many fans of the books and he is (initially) their leader. So even if he does seem the least fanatic among them and is a grandfatherly kind of figure (though a hard one) as is mentioned above, he is a symbol of what they stand for (a kind of hateful extreme Inquisition against all they consider Darkfriends) and therefore could be depicted as one of the 'bad guys' in the tv-show. We who have read the books know, of course, that there are others among that lot (f.ex. the extremely zealous Jaret Byar) who are far worse.

  5. A comment on the 'Moiraine-Thom' thing:  I can see that for some that plot did not work. Personally though I thought it was great for several reasons. First and foremost because it was wonderful that Moiraine could find love and happiness having in some ways 'sacrificed' her entire life to Blue Ajah-causes (primarily to finding the Dragon Reborn). She saw Lan's (her Warder-companion of many many years) love for Nynaeve and perhaps in her heart of hearts wished for the same. Also because it was a total surprise for me, never saw that coming at all since Moiraine had seemed above such 'mundane' things as love. With everything Thom had gone through and all I was pleased for him as well. Robert Jordan liked, as we know, to throw in some surprises in his wonderful story (Verin a very good example) and I think this was another one of his surprises albeit a smaller one perhaps.

  6. Thanks for the reflections/insight, Jason (Phoenix).

     

    A few thoughts on the 5 points mentioned:

     

     

    Pt 1: Adult Content. This has me somewhat concerned. I mentioned elsewhere at DM that I feared they would be overly sexual with GoT-style nudity etc in the WoT series. Sex sells, we all know that, but I found Robert Jordan’s subtlety with regards to the ‘sexual adventures’ of Rand, Min, Elayne and Aviendha a nice change from George RR Martin’s more explicit/vulgar style in this regard. I hoped the producers would follow Robert Jordan’s style for this but am far from surprised they probably are going for more explicit scenes. It’s not a major thing for me but I hope they don’t go ‘overboard’.

     

     

    Pt 2: 8-10 episodes, focused on Eye of the World. I hope they go for 10 episodes (pr season) and it covers the book until they are at the Eye, then the chance is smaller I think that it will become an overly simplified, ‘dumbed down’ version of the book which is one of the major fears of many of us here. Let me add, were I producing this tv-show I would certainly have started it with the prologue from Eye of the World, both to stay in tune with the book and also because the emotional impact of the Lews Therin/Ishamael scene would be strong and hard-hitting but also interesting and intriguing for what was to come.

     

     

    Pt 3: Expanding Secondary characters...and maybe a few big omissions. With the multitude of characters in the WoT books it is to be expected that many characters are left out, but I do sincerely hope they don’t leave out any of the main characters outside our Two Rivers heroes (am thinking of characters like Min, Thom, Elayne, Galad, Gawyn, Loial, Morgase). Giving f.ex. Logain a bigger role does not bother me so much, it is necessary to alter some things to make a story work on tv/film, but the closer to the books they stay the happier I will generally be. I think GoT managed this balance quite well. If the producers follow the same line, I will be pleased.

     

     

    Pt 4: Less Binary Evil. One the one hand what is mentioned there does not bother me much, on the other having the Forsaken/Chosen less ‘pure-evil’ makes me both surprised and a little concerned, unless all it means is that f.ex. the Forsaken will be many-faceted, though keeping their dark, evil hearts and extreme ambitions as in the books.. There is no need to become revisionist when it comes to the Forces of Light fighting the Forces of Evil (Dark One) I believe, this is the main story of the books, never mind that it may seem a little generic to some people. Saying it’s ‘balance vs imbalance’ sounds somewhat vague and ‘out there’ for me. Even if it not entirely untrue, I think the producers should keep the 'light vs dark' at the chore of the series as I believe it is in the books.

     

     

    Pt 5: More Diversity. This has me somewhat concerned tbh. If there is any fantasy-series out there which has plenty plenty diversity as it is, it is the WoT – when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, personalities, backgrounds etc. I cannot see any reason why there should be need to amplify this, just make use of the enormous ‘tapestry’ of characters Robert Jordan has already given us. I see no need either to emphasize the LGBTQ or feminism part, it is already a part of the WoT Universe. Practically the whole Red Ajah are lesbians if we are to interpret what Robert Jordan wrote/implied, and think about all the female characters in the WoT, from our heroines to hundreds of Aes Sedai women.. has there in fact ever been a book series with so many strong, diverse, female characters? I highly doubt it. There is plenty to work with there without having a 'girlpower'/feminist agenda.

     

    And as for having gay relationships between characters who are straight in the books (say Egwene is now suddenly depicted as a lesbian), that smells of sensationalism and political revisionism to me and will certainly turn me off the show. Moiraine and Siuan had a 'romp' in bed at one time, which does not necessarily make her a lesbian but could open the door for the producers for her to be say bi-sexual, but doing it with a book-written straight character sits less well with me. As for making a white character in the books black/Asian-like I see no need to do so due to the great diversity already in the books, but if they do it I hope it is with a side-character, not one of the main ones. And not to be a bigot or anything, but if Mat suddenly becomes Mandy the transvestite during season 1 of the show, I may have a word or two or three to say about that..

     

    I don’t like the tv-series of today being so political, that they change the source material to appeal to modern views on feminism/metoo, race, gender, sexual orientation etc. (Rumours of f.ex. making James Bond more 'feminist' in his views in the coming film due to metoo makes me shudder.. James Bond is James Bond with all his mannerisms in a fictional movie-universe, let him be what he is!). There are more than enough films and tv-series of a more social-realism nature that cater for that. Let the WoT be the WoT, producers - and give us a quality tv-series with book-based integrity, heart and style to love and cherish (ref. Peter Jackson and 'The Lord of the Rings'-movies and also the GoT tv-series I would say), the best way to honour Robert Jordan’s legacy and memory.

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