Min's viewings suggest that won't happen. They also suggest that her body is real enough that when she dies, she'll be born again. If she were still in dead-hero form, then it would be permanent death, but apparently the ripping process creates a legitimate and more or less normal body, though the past life memories are still active (which is what causes Min to see multiple lives in her viewings of Birgitte).

I'm guessing that Verin avoids violence as often as she can possibly get away with. She has obviously done some (though the only violence we know of from her POV was self-defense), but I don't find it incredibly unbelievable that Hurin didn't smell it on her.

One paragraph from Winter's Heart (Chapter-Out of Thin Air) has always vexed me.

"Kill him," Demandred had commanded later, but he had added that it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again. By anyone, including the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order.

 

My problem is why? Demandred burns with hatred for LTT/Rand and lives to be the one to kill him. I do not remember the exact quote but Moridin even rebuffs Dem at one point saying that the GLoD gets to kill Rand, not Demmy. So why does Demandred order the four of them to kill Rand? Does he not think them capable? Is he trying to draw Rand out? Finally the last sentence clearly points out that Demmy is either giving orders at the BT or is in the room when assignments are being handed out.

 

The quote where Demandred says only he shall kill Rand was from tGS, and, I think, as mistake on Brandon's behalf. Demandred loathes Lews Therin, but the outlet of his hatred has never been so directly personal. A bit like Mat's over-enthusiatic jesting, I suspect this was a bit of Brandon going a bit too far with a characters personality traits in portraying them.

Why assume that it was a mistake when 1) we know that one of the Forsaken has been given the opportunity to kill Rand, 2) we know that the Shadow considers Demandred its 'main player' for the Last Battle, and 3), as was pointed out, Demandred's very personal hatred of Lews Therin - the thing that caused him to turn to the Shadow in the first place - is so well-established?

He tried to launch his own attack and crush them, but the old man flung web after web at him without pause, and it was all he could do to fend them off. Those that struck trees enveloped them in flame or blew the trunks apart in splinters. He was a general, a great general, but generals did not have to fight alongside the men they commanded! Snarling, he began to retreat amid the crackle of burning trees and the thunder of explosions. Away from the key. Sooner or later the old man had to tire, and then he could take care of killing al'Thor. If one of the others did not get there first. He hoped fervently they did not.

Why would he care if the others got there first or not if he did not care who killed Rand?

Demandred's orders seem to have been given after the attack on Cairhien, and his orders seem to have been for Far Madding, because he told them that it would be better for them to die than to be discovered 'again'. The only other explanation is that they reported on events in Altara, and Taim decided that Torval and Gedwyn had been too obvious in their attempt on Rand's life there, and that Dashiva had been too obvious...but Kisman was not even mentioned in Altara, so that makes no sense. Demandred seems to have been passionately disappointed in their failure at Cairhien, but still, the line makes no sense unless his orders were after Cairhien. In that case, I imagine he simply didn't believe they had a chance in the Pit of Doom to actually kill Rand, and he hoped Rand would off them.

If he did indeed change his mind - hard to say based on WH 13 - then I imagine that Cyndane convinced him some time between then and the Cleansing that Rand really was Lews Therin. Perhaps he was not convinced until he realized Rand's plan.

Is the darkfriend social held in the prologue of tgh occurring in morridin's blight lair? I got the impression that members were brought and left via gateway

We don't know for sure they were transported by gateway, but it seems likely. It's not his Blight fortress, but rather an area near Shayol Ghul which has properties of Tel'aran'rhiod. Somehow, it is the same place Rand visited in his dreams in TGS 15 'A Place to Begin' - he said it did not have the feel of Tel'aran'rhiod, which is exactly what Moghedien said about it when she was taken out of the vacuole in ACOS 25 'Mindtrap'.

It doesn't work that way. If she said that while holding the Oath Rod it would be different. So long as she believes it when she says it, she can say it, but after that, it's not binding.

You missed one:

The Wiseone that died from a snake or was there another I don't recall?

Can you read? I mean, you went to all that trouble to remove the quote I so nicely provided...to pretend that you didn't see it? What is your problem?

I was just wondering where the 500-600 year quotes were coming from when, outside of the AoL, Reanne and Alivia are the oldest that have been revealed to us, both in their early 400's.

You missed one:

"That's madness!" Nynaeve burst out, leaning forward in her chair. Surprisingly, still the same chair. And still the same dress. Very surprising. Her hands were fists resting on her lap. "You know what it does; the Kin are proof! How many Aes Sedai live past three hundred? Or reach it? And don't tell me I shouldn't talk about age. That's a ridiculous custom, and you know it. Egwene, Reanne was called Eldest because she was the oldest Kinswoman in Ebou Dar. The oldest anywhere is a woman called Aloisia Nemosni, an oil merchant in Tear. Egwene, she's nearly six ... hundred . . . years . . . old! When the Hall hears that, I wager they'll be ready to put the Oath Rod on a shelf."

According to the BWB, max lifespan is about 800 years (though this was in the Age of Legends when Restoration was at its height).

 

The BWB says the 700's as the upper limit so far as I recall.

It says they live 'seven hundred years or more', which is why I put the max at about 800.

According to the BWB, max lifespan is about 800 years (though this was in the Age of Legends when Restoration was at its height).

The error that most stood out to me(of course, I ran through this thread quickly, so I apologize to anyone who already mentioned it) was the timeline errors. RJ always did a methodical step-by-step chronological synchronization. That was not the case here. Men Dream Here dealt with the events in the last chapter of Book Twelve, but from Perrin's pov in the wolf dream. It makes no sense for it to have occurred after The Veins of Gold.

Kinda like how it made no sense for us to see the Cleansing from everyone else's POVs in the first half of Crossroads of Twilight? Honestly, it's not that difficult to keep up with with so many clues as to how each plotline relates to the others in the timeline (this being, of course, the most major one).

Peter is having login issues, and wanted someone to post this here:

Rifle and riffle are two different verbs. Rifle means to search thoroughly, ransack. Riffle means to leaf through hastily or cursorily. I do believe riffle is onomatopoeia. It dates from 1754. Rifle's ransack definition is its oldest, from the 14th century. Oxford Online more or less gives rifle as one definition of riffle, which annoys me. Merriam-Webster keeps them separate.

There are a litany of typos throughout this book. From misspelled words to words such as "a" or "the" missing which makes the sentence very odd. I'm about halfway through the book, and I've really grown tired of them all. Shouldn't the editing process for such a great series catch most of these?

lit·a·ny (ltn-)n. pl. lit·a·nies 1. A liturgical prayer consisting of a series of petitions recited by a leader alternating with fixed responses by the congregation.2. A repetitive or incantatory recital.

Also, it is singular, so if you really had intended to use this word (which I think you didn't), it would be 'There is a litany of typos...'

Just sayin.

Does Min calling Rand a "stupid looby" count as an error??

Why would it?

PS - I did some searching, and realizes that Min calls him a 'loobie', rather than a 'looby'. But the spelling inconsistency is RJ's, not Brandon's - RJ spelled it both ways.

Does Min calling Rand a "stupid looby" count as an error??

Why would it?

US edition Chapter 27 pg 431

 

"But we must make some kind of declaration," Romanda said. She was

eldest among them, and would be the one running the meeting. "Something

to make the position of the Hall known, to dissuade the Amyrlin

from an imprudent call for war."

 

This is the Aes Sedai talking not the Kin. Age means nothing in the AS hierarchy. Maybe he meant strongest but I'm unsure if Romanda is the strongest of that grouping or not.

Age actually has a lot of meaning in the Hall. You should go back and read some previous meetings.

I'm not sure if this was already posted or not, but it's fairly late already and this is bothering me a lot.

 

Pg. 490: "'Tai'daishar!' True Blood of Battle!"

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Old Tongue, tai'shar is the translation for "true blood of...". Also, in LoC (I think it's LoC) Rand names his horse Tai'daishar, and we're told it means "Lord of Glory" in OT. So, BIG mistake on Sanderson's part? We can't have the same words with 2 completely different meanings. Since war did not exist in the AoL i did not expect to find a direct translation for battle. I was hoping the word had come up when the War of the Shadow came along, since words like Muad'drin were used. I'm incredibly confused with this. Please help?

RJ wrote that scene. They aren't completely different meanings - just different translations.

There's also one in the second half of the book where "effect" is used instead of "affect", but I can't remember where - I'll pick it up on my next read-through.

That one has already been noted on Theoryland, so you needn't worry about it.

Yet given Egwene's experiences in TGH, the damane apparently controls the flow of power, otherwise there'd be no reason to 'train' the damane. Now, that is contradicted by the scene with Tuon and Joline in KoD; Tuon seemed much more in control than Renna ever did with Egwene. Perhaps it's possible for anyone in a link to fight for control of it?

I think it probably depends on skill and dexterity, maybe even the potential strength of the sul'dam.

Also, if there was a way to overcome that weakness, you'd think Moghedien would have mentioned it here:

 

"You brainless fool," Moghedien sobbed, shaking Nynaeve's skirt with both hands as if wanting to shake Nynaeve. "It does not matter how brave you are. We are linked, but you contribute nothing the way you are. Not a shred. It is my strength, and your madness. They are here in the flesh, not dreaming! They are using things you have never dreamed of! They will destroy us if we stay!"

 

I believe Moghedion meant the one-sided link of the a'dam. Nynaeve, acting as a sul'dam, contributed nothing of her own strength to the circle.

I'm not so sure that's true. The a'dam functions as a link with the sul'dam in control; the sul'dam usually do not contribute because they have not actually started channeling, but there is nothing to say that they cannot.

Also, if there was a way to overcome that weakness, you'd think Moghedien would have mentioned it here:

"You brainless fool," Moghedien sobbed, shaking Nynaeve's skirt with both hands as if wanting to shake Nynaeve. "It does not matter how brave you are. We are linked, but you contribute nothing the way you are. Not a shred. It is my strength, and your madness. They are here in the flesh, not dreaming! They are using things you have never dreamed of! They will destroy us if we stay!"

'Lastriders' has the feel of something Brandon would come up with. Just saying.

P. 217 US hardcover: "When her foot hit the paving stone, the stone turned to dust. Her food sank through the shattered paving stone and hit packed earth."

 

 

Also I'm not sure why Ch. 11 "An Unexpected Letter" uses the Dragon icon. It's an Elayne POV.

I wondered about that as well. I need to go re-read the chapter and see if there is a reason.

Elayne did not want Rand to ask her to stay...she wanted him to tell her that he wished she could stay. Big difference. As it is, he made it seem as if he didn't care one way or the other.

Hi all,

 

First time poster... sorry if this has been posted else where,

 

Just wondering about Matt and the horn, I thought it would be bound to him after he blew it as long as he was alive, but didnt he 'die' at rhudian? Therefore he is not connected to it anymore and anyone can now 'blow' it and be in control...?

He died at Caemlyn, not at Rhuidean, and since Rand balefire Rahvin, we assume that he's still linked to the Horn, since it's as if he never died at all. It's possible he's no longer linked to it by some twist of logic, but we have no real reason to think he isn't.

For your own sake, FainsLeftFoot, don't do that. It is being poorly translated. We have several mentions of Aiel carrying swords, or switches between Elayne and Elaida's name, a mention of "Green Ajah Logic", and other stupidities. Another translator undertook the task after the former one passed away, and she is making a poor job of it. You would thini she never read the book. We have two words that can translate "you" in french. And now and then it can swtch from "tu" to "vous". The first is singular the second plural, and used for respect mark. Names with an additional "-e" in the end : Verine, Alviarine, Baine, Suline, and so forth. Chiad became Khiad and then Chiade.

 

And of course, translation errors. "Weave" and "Flows" have not been translated following the context of knitting, but refer to the sea. And phrase have been poorly translated and sometimes doesn't mean anything. Lot of french fans are reading the serie in english. As we are not all well versed in foreign language, it often is a challenge. But we keep going, because the french version is a shame to the universe of Robert Jordan.

RJ said that the only translators that even consulted with him were the Dutch ones, and he also said he'd heard the Swedish translation was pretty good, but the Dutchies and Swedes prefer the English version since they all speak English (which is, of course, probably why the translations are good).

The darkness aura is just a spin on a technique called averted vision, basically you attempt to get a better look by using your peripheral vision rather than looking directly at something.  It helps detect detail in certain situations due to the physiology of the eye.

 

Try this when looking at faint stars on a cloudless night. It's quite striking.

 

A question concerning Rand's parentage:

 

Amys told Rand about his bio-parents in tSR Ch34. Rand announced this to the clan chiefs at Alcair Dal in tSR Ch57; Mat was also present, though Moiraine and Lan were not. He told Dyelin in LoC Ch16, when she commented on his resemblance to Tigraine.

 

Does anyone else know?

 

I thought Egwene was present too

 

Nope. With the exception of Sevanna, who stood in as clan chief, the WOs were quite insistant that the meeting was for men only. So Egwene stayed with Moiraine and the WOs.

Egwene was there when Amys first told him, as was Mat.  However, no one has reasoned out that Shaiel=Tigraine except for Rand, and he hasn't told anyone.