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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Terez

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Posts posted by Terez

  1. Ha, someone should show it to Goodkind, classic. 

     

    I must say, I do enjoy having you back Terez, for all our differences in opinion sometimes, I am enjoying your posts/topics. 

     

    :wub:

     

    Does anyone know if I bought a copy of AMoL and paid to have it sent to Tor or whoever, would Brandon sign it if I paid to have it returned to me?

     

    Unfortunately Sam Wellers is sold out; they do 700 signed preorders. Best to just track him down in person if you can.

     

    As for showing Goodkind my TOM...lol. I went on this rant about Goodkind the other day and when I was about to post it on Facebook it occurred to me to attach that photo. So I did, and I tagged Brandon, and Peter came along a few hours later and untagged him. :tongue:  Brandon should know better than to write something in my book that he doesn't want plastered all over the internet...

  2. That's not how I read it. He said her strength wouldn't be immediately evident. That just means she has to practice for a while before it's evident. Though maybe Brandon is forgetting that potential can be sensed. I also read it as, Tuon is definitely going to channel. I should change my vote... (I'm on undecided now because I can see it either way, but it looks as though Brandon is saying she would have been channeling by the outriggers at the latest).

  3. There is a common fundamental misunderstanding about whether Tuon can channel right off the bat. Bethamin did it. Any sul'dam could. They have been channeling for years, and the best ones (like Tuon and the der'sul'dam) can channel directly through the damane without having to tell the damane what to do. Since Tuon has never been denied the opportunity to be 'complete', she's had more practice than many sul'dam who have been at it for far longer. She will probably have to develop her strength, but she already knows how to make the weaves.

  4. I agree, although I think it's early in the Merrilor meeting. I'm thinking it's Egwene's thoughts when Rand first greets everyone. The only point of interest I find is that the scene is likely going to be in Egwene's POV, which, though expected, I find a bit disappointing.

     

    I doubt it will be in only one POV.

  5. I find it intriguing as it is. We haven't seen Rand practice the sword since he lost his hand, and it will be interesting to see how they match up. Tam will probably also go one-handed.

     

    PS—I have believed for a while that this is foreshadowing:

     

    "It seems Ryne was wrong as well as a Darkfriend. You were better than he."

    Lan shook his head slightly. "He was better. But he thought I was finished, with only one arm. He never understood. You surrender after you're dead."

    Moiraine nodded. Surrender after you are dead. Yes.
  6. Not sure. I don't see the White Tower dying so much as becoming an aspect of the Empire (and not in a bad way). But I think the Ajahs are pretty pointless. I mean, WTF do Whites do all day? It's just a weird way of dividing up interests and responsibilities, and as many have observed, the Ajahs are basically just glorified college sororities. The ajah of the Age of Legends were cause-dedicated groups: numerous, specific, and sometimes temporary alliances. I don't necessarily see a return to the Age of Legends, but I would expect a new Age to bring change, and I like to think this would be one of them.

  7. Yeah, I assume that the Oath Rod will be a compromise for the collar in general; I just think that Tuon is logically the first step, and since we probably won't see the damane all freed in AMOL, Tuon's Oath might be all we see. As for her not believing in the Oaths, she's had plenty of experience with them by now so she has to be close to seeing the truth. There are several Aes Sedai damane, and she also has Sevanna, who can testify about the binder she used on Galina.

     

    I don't think Rand will require the Oath so much as Egwene will. The rod is effective enough even for vague things; if Tuon says she will do everything in her power to accomplish something, she won't be able to get around it unless she can convince herself that it's not in her power to do. And yes, she will probably agree to it for no other reason than to observe for herself how the rod works.

     

    PS—Tuon could also simply take the First Oath, and then make that promise. And the First Oath would not inconvenience her too much as she has a Voice to speak things for her when she wants to be misleading.

  8. There were less than a thousand Aes Sedai around the time Rand started the Black Tower. From the BWB:

     

    With a membership encompassing nearly one in five of Aes Sedai at the time of writing (an indication of the perceived importance of their primary task), the Red Ajah is certainly the largest.

     

    So, less than two hundred Reds. 48 of them were Black, so that cut their number by a quarter or more. Toveine's party of 51 was more than half Red, and we know none of them were Black so the numbers don't overlap. Then there is Dumai's Wells, and more than half of those sisters were Red, though some of them were Black, namely Galina and Katerine. Only 12 of the 39 who were sent returned with Covarla, not including Katerine and others who might have come later like Hattori (not sure about her). Pevara's group was only 6, but that adds to the already significant losses, and so do the four who were at the Cairhienin rebels' camp in ACOS when the bubble of evil struck; at least one of them was killed, and in probability, all four. I'd say the Red is down to less than 100 members by now, 100 at most. Even if Pevara and Co. survive, they'll be changed by their experiences.

  9. She drew a fingernail along his jaw hard enough to make him flinch. "The time for games and subterfuge is past, Lews Therin. LONG past."

       

    His stomach lurched. "Do you mean to KILL me, then? The Light BURN you, I —"

       

    "KILL you?" she spat incredulously. "Kill YOU! I mean to HAVE you, forever. You were mine LONG before that pale-haired milksop stole you. Before she ever SAW you. You LOVED me!"

       

    "And YOU loved power!" For a moment he felt dazed. The words sounded true – he KNEW they were true – but where had they COME from?

  10. "Callandor will be but one fulfillment of The Karaethon Cycle, as his birth on the slopes of Dragonmount was the first. He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world. Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives do not know how to interpret them all.What does it mean that he 'shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf'? What does it meant that he 'shall bind the nine moons to serve him'? Yet these are given equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle."

     

     

    I like this quote because it gives us context for the future of Randland. The two most important things that went wrong in the vision Aviendha saw for the future were the role of the Aiel and the collaring of channelers. Both resolutions are suggested in this quote. The Aiel must return to the Way of the Leaf, and Tuon must take an Oath.

     

    An interesting question—and one I think will inevitably cause continuity problems, and would have even if RJ had written it—is the question of how those prophecies were fulfilled in the future that Aviendha saw. These two, however, are not very problematic. In fact, the future Aviendha saw is a more literal interpretation of the Aiel quote, and a more allegorical interpretation of the second.

     

    Many people have a problem seeing how the damane issue can be resolved by the end of the book. I have come to believe that there are two elements at play that will satisfactorily resolve it. One is the way Seanchan are essentially brainwashed to view the Empress as a sort of deity; this gives Tuon the absolute optimal position from which to make this sort of change happen very quickly. The other important element is the binder.

     

     

    "Traveling boxes? What is your game there? Do they hold captives? If you think I will teach them Compulsion, erase it from your mind. One of those women was not negligible. I will not risk strength and skill residing together, in her, or in someone she teaches. Or do you have a binder hidden away with your other toys?"

     

     

    And Sammael did, which is how Sevanna ended up with Galina. The first reference to 'binding' was in LOC, also with Sammael and Graendal, and then Semirhage told her own story about how she joined the Shadow to avoid being bound. The Oath Rod is a binder.

     

    This is a theme that spans the entire series. The Oath Rod was not mentioned by name until TDR, but the concept was introduced in TEOTW, and it was explained in TGH:

     

     

    "One other [ter'angreal] we have in the Tower makes oaths binding. When you are raised to full sisterhood, you will take your final vows holding that ter'angreal. To speak no word that is not true. To make no weapon for one man to kill another. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme of defending your own life, that of your Warder, or that of another sister."

     

    Nynaeve shook her head. It sounded either like too much to swear or too little, and she said so.

       

    "Once, Aes Sedai were not required to swear oaths. It was known what Aes Sedai were and what they stood for, and there was no need for more. Many of us wish it were so still. But the Wheel turns, and the times change. That we swear these oaths, that we are known to be bound, allows the nations to deal with us without fearing that we will throw up our own power, the One Power, against them. Between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years we made these choices, and because of them the White Tower still stands, and we can still do what we can against the Shadow."

     

     

    Overlooking the irony in Sheriam's words, and the fact that she can lie (she would not lie about something like this to an Accepted, I don't think; I'm just trying to avoid stupid arguments), this explains why the Aes Sedai "bind themselves like criminals".

     

    This is the same book where the Seanchan were introduced. The same book where Egwene was captured and made damane. The same book where that practice was explained:

     

     

    Egwene shivered, though the air was not very cold. Pulling her cloak up onto her shoulders, her hand brushed the leash, and she jerked at it fitfully. "This is a horrible thing. How can you do this to anyone? What diseased mind ever thought of it?"

       

    The blue-eyed sul'dam with the empty leash growled, "This one could do without her tongue already, Renna."

       

    Renna only smiled patiently. "How is it horrible? Could we allow anyone to run loose who can do what a damane can? Sometimes men are born who would be marath'damane if they were women – it is so here also, I have heard – and they must be killed, of course, but the women do not go mad. Better for them to become damane than make trouble contending for power. As for the mind that first thought of the a'dam, it was the mind of a woman who called herself Aes Sedai."

       

    Egwene knew incredulity must be painting her face, because Renna laughed openly. "When Luthair Paendrag Mondwin, son of the Hawkwing, first faced the Armies of the Night, he found many among them who called themselves Aes Sedai. They contended for power among themselves and used the One Power on the field of battle. One such, a woman named Deain, who thought she could do better serving the Emperor – he was not Emperor then, of course – since he had no Aes Sedai in his armies, came to him with a device she had made, the first a'dam, fastened to the neck of one of her sisters. Though that woman did not want to serve Luthair, the a'dam required her to serve. Deain made more a'dam, the first sul'dam were found, and women captured who called themselves Aes Sedai discovered that they were in fact only marath'damane, Those Who Must Be Leashed. It is said that when she herself was leashed, Deain's screams shook the Towers of Midnight, but of course she, too, was a marath'damane, and marath'damane cannot be allowed to run free. Perhaps you will be one of those who has the ability to make a'dam. If so, you will be pampered, you may rest assured."

     

     

    Themes, themes, themes. Renna is dead, and it was Mat who ordered her death. Seta—not the other sul'dam here, but the one who held Egwene's a'dam more often than anyone aside from Renna—went with Joline and Teslyn to Tar Valon to become a novice. Tuon knows about all of this. It was Tuon who chastised Mat for mourning a traitor after Renna's death. She doesn't know about Tuli, but I'm sure she will learn soon enough. She allowed Mat to take the a'dam away from her when she sought to punish the Aes Sedai for annoying her, and her conversations with Setalle Anan have convinced her on a few points. But she insists that she also scored some points with Setalle. Most likely, those points are along the lines of there being a need to check the sort of power that channelers can wield.

     

    During the Breaking, the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends were separated by an ocean and by the loss of Traveling. Both the White Tower and the fiefdoms of the Seanchan continent were descended from those Aes Sedai. They took different approaches to dealing with men who could channel, and they took very different approaches to containing and therefore maintaining their own power. The White Tower adopted the Three Oaths, the first one being for the purpose of disarmament, and later, the "First Oath" (named so not for chronology but for importance) to regain the trust of the rulers of Randland, diminished by Tetsuan's betrayal of Manetheren.

     

    While I believe it is theoretically quite possible for Tuon to make major public moves toward freeing the damane by the end of the book, and will not be surprised if that's how it goes down, for those who think the Seanchan would simply revolt in a situation like that, it's also possibly that Tuon will simply swear on an Oath Rod to do everything in her power to free them as quickly as possible after the Last Battle. She might also swear to serve Rand explicitly, but even if she does not, the Oath to free the damane implies a bargaining concession, and Rand did say that this was the one point he would not concede. Tuon making this concession is, in effect, serving Rand. But she might even swear three oaths on the rod, and they could be a lot of things.

     

    It's certainly possible to interpret this prophecy less literally, but I think the argument for a literal interpretation is very strong. The Oath Rod has been a major bone of controversy for the entire story. Certainly the Wise Ones don't seem to need Oaths to be respected and trusted by their people. The Sea Folk have their own way of keeping their channelers in line; every single one of them has to take orders from a non-channeler. Siuan's arguments for the Oath Rod were similar to Sheriam's, and she managed to convince Egwene that they were necessary, but when compared to the damane situation, the Oath Rod seems like a compromise, and while some of us would like to see them do away with the Oaths, I think this is a cultural change that won't happen overnight. The damane situation is different, mostly because the Seanchan decided to invade a land with free channelers, and cultural shocks like that lead to rapid change, much more rapid than the oft-made comparison to American slavery.

     

    So, how does it happen?

     

     

    Feeding on fear, her dreams became worse. The two strange women she had been seeing In Tel'aran'rhiod caught her and dragged her before a table full of hooded women, and when they took off their hoods, every one was Liandrin, the Black sister who had captured her in Tear. A hard-faced Seanchan woman handed her a silvery bracelet and necklace connected by a silvery leash, an a'dam. That made her cry out; Seanchan had put an a'dam on her once. She would die before letting it happen again.

     

     

    The hard-faced Seanchan woman is no doubt Egeanin. And while I am tempted to believe that Egwene will collar Tuon, I think it more likely (due to other prophecies) that she will collar Seta (again), just to show the Seanchan that sul'dam can be collared. It is very difficult to maintain slavery when your means for maintaining it, and even your justification for maintaining it, are shown to be illusory. That is how this change can happen quickly.

  11. It's not 'too easy' if they decide to be friends. The Aes Sedai have had a while now to get used to the idea of male channelers. Ever since they learned about Toveine's expedition. There have been multiple bondings, and interestingly many of them have happened independently of each other. The changes are already being made, and those with hardcore prejudices are probably getting fewer and fewer. And a significant percentage of the Red was taken care of in the Purge...

     

    Also, keep in mind that Egwene and Logain have a history, and it's a good one. I don't know that they will necessarily end up as one organization, but I think they will have a good working relationship at least. Much like the Tower now has with other groups of female channelers.

  12. I missed that post. It reminds me of this:

     

    When I first discovered the fan websites and occasionally saw that someone had puzzled out correctly where I was going or what I intended to do, I thought about changing directions or altering the story to avoid what they had deduced. I quickly learned, however, that as soon as anyone put up a theory on one of the sites, there would be at least one poster explaining why the theory was no good and even impossible for every poster who hailed it as the new Unified Field Theory. So I didn't change anything after all.
  13. "So Demandred knows you and I meet," he said flatly. Why had he EVER expected to receive more than DRIBLETS from her?

       

    "Of COURSE he does. Not how MUCH I tell you, but that I tell you SOMETHING. I am trying to bring us TOGETHER, Sammael, before it is too – "

       

    He cut in sharply. "You deliver a message to Demandred from ME. Tell him I KNOW what he is up to." Events to the south had Demandred’s mark ALL OVER them. Demandred had ALWAYS liked using proxies. "Tell HIM to be careful. I won’t have him or his FRIENDS interfering in my plans." Perhaps he could direct al’Thor’s attention THERE; that would likely put an END to him. If other means did not work. "So long as they steer clear of me, his LACKEYS can carve out what he wants, but they will steer clear or he will ANSWER for it." There had been a LONG struggle after the Bore was opened into the Great Lord’s prison, many YEARS before enough strength was gathered to move openly. This time, when the final seal was shattered, he would present the Great Lord with NATIONS ready to follow. If they did not know who they followed, what did THAT matter? He would NOT fail, as Be’lal and Rahvin had. The Great Lord WOULD see who served him best. "You TELL him!"

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