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Posts posted by Terez

  1. With the Companion, they are releasing stuff written in RJ's notes. Some of that differs from what eventually got put in the books. 


    Basically, that was RJ's notes on Bela...


    Not so sure that's true. I think that entry was all Harriet. She made the editorial decision for the story because she found it unrealistic that Bela would survive in the scene Brandon had written, with her surrounded by Trollocs and all. But at the same time, she has always had a thing for Bela (she loved the Bela=Creator theory of old) and she got a kick out of the fact that Brandon had promised fans Bela would survive and then he had to go back on his promise. So I think it simply amused her to turn the tables again for the Companion.

  2. OlverCain was also "obvious" on the level of a casual fan. The difference is that the hardcore had little problem accepting RJ's explanation for why it wouldn't work. Taimandred was a different story; when I say Taimandred died around KOD among hardcore fans, I mean that people accepted that Taim was not going to end up being Demandred. There was always a debate about whether RJ was telling the truth when he said that Taim was never Demandred, that he had not in fact changed his mind. LOC made that difficult to believe.

  3. I will admit after all the times RJ said they weren't the same I couldn't understand why that didn't put an end to the Taimandred theories.


    It did put an end to Taimandred among hardcore fans, by the time KOD rolled around anyway. (Before then, some people were trying to figure out how his answers could be sneaky Aes Sedai answers, but after a while people gave up because he was just too clear about it.) But Taimandred wouldn't die, precisely because of all those noobs who kept joining up just to post about Taimandred. They didn't know what RJ said about it on book tours, so all the way up to the release of AMOL, we had Taimandred threads. (Especially here. At Theoryland, our noobs have always been a bit more hardcore than noobs here, where the more casual fans are more likely to join.)

  4. I remember otherwise. But I'm old, so :wink:


    It doesn't really matter how old you are; one can look back practically to the dawn of the internet and see the same thing at ra.sf.w-rj on Usenet (archived on Google Groups), and after 1998, at the Theoryland archives and elsewhere. (DM archives that old are gone.)


    PS: The thread I posted about Taimandred on Theoryland has over 7000 unique views, and you think there were only 2-3000 posters and lurkers at the height of the WoT craze? Looks to me like you're pulling numbers out of your wherever, dude.

  5. Would be interesting if we ever found out when and why he changed it.  I am glad Taimandred never "officially" happened since it was  way to obivious.  My guess is he realized in would cause some issues later on so it would be easier to separate the two and that so many people guessing it so quickly ruined the surprise. 


    It was not obvious for the readers (99%, or more) back then. Or now. One cannot judge a twist based on opinions of hardcore fans. There were more than 20 million readers, and what, 2000-3000 online posters/lurkers (now this number is max. 400) who cared about the series that deeply?


    Taimandred was not the kind of theory that emerged from the hard core. It was the kind of theory that people joined Dragonmount just to post about, like...once a week, someone would join just to post their brilliant Taimandred theory. Most of them did not stick around to become part of the hardest core. Noobs were much, much more likely to care about Taimandred than they were to care about Asmodean. You can bet that for every person who bothered to join Dragonmount and ask about Taimandred, there were at least 10 who googled before posting, and even more who had the same thought but never considered posting about it on the internet.


    The only theory that really compares to Taimandred in the fascination it held for noob types was Olvercain.


    Edit: you are very much underestimating the number of people who engaged online. Even now, there are more than 400 people who attend JordanCon every single year, and JordanCon attendees are a very small contingent of the hard core. The biggest WoT Facebook page has over 60,000 likes, and since I'm an admin on this page I know that thousands are (still) engaged enough to like/share/comment regularly.

  6. This is awesome news. And gives me an opportunity to say a few things.


    First of all, thank you to Terez for digging out this information and then having the ability to sit on it (mostly) for the last year at least. I am not sure I could have done that, given that original Taimandred has always been a pet theory of mine and I've been arguing that very thing (along with very many others) for years. (Barid even ended up locking a thread because of it ;-)

    I have to admit I'm a bit amused at people scrambling to lay claim to this one. I honestly think that there were few fans who never believed Taimandred. It was that obvious. As I mentioned in my signing report, the conviction that Taimandred was true is what drove me to Theoryland in the first place, but I'm hardly alone. Dragonmount in particular has suffered from a long line of Taimandred threads because it was the most popular great idea that inspired people to post.


    I never made a Taimandred post as a noob because I googled that sh!t, and once I saw that RJ had denied it, I didn't figure there was any point in belaboring the issue. But every time I reread LOC, I had to wonder, "Does he really expect us to believe that Taim was never Demandred?" I tried to believe him, since it seemed I had no other choice, but it was hard.


    This was definitely a difficult secret to keep, and I wish I had been able to keep it a little longer. I am pleased that it has gotten this level of response from all the old-timers; I wasn't actually sure that would happen.


    Lest it be misunderstood, I love WOT and RJ. I have been reading (and rereading and listening to the audiobooks and thinking about it) since 93- over 20 years! It was a large part of my life. I am glad to know how it ended. I feel a bit bittersweet about it all. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations, not really. Then again, if I'm honest, it's hard to tell. I don't believe so, but I can't be certain. We got closure, that is for sure. I was moved to tears when Tam "said" goodbye to Rand, after his "death". Rand had been my friend and I had lived his life, as hard as it was. But that bittersweet feeling remains.


    To an extent, for reasons I don't completely understand, this reveal makes things a bit better. Honestly, I don't know why. It's not about being right. It's deeper, I think. I had a similar reaction to The Secret History of Star Wars (an amazing book.) Learning how much was made up, why decisions were made, why certain storylines were dropped or shifted about or even changed- seeing where the "seams" are of the work- for me at least gives me more understanding and empathy for the author.

    I feel the same way, and so do many others. Confirmation of Taimandred...before it happened, I might have thought that it would make me angry. Indeed, when we told Linda about it, she was sure that the fandom was really going to hold it against RJ. But for most people, that's not how it works, for whatever reason. It's a really satisfying emotional closure, and I think you said it well, that it's not just about being right. It's about being able to appreciate LOC for the book it was intended to be, at long last. Like Shannow said at RAFO:


    We were not mad. The signs WERE obvious. I am off to read Lord of Chaos again, this time KNOWING it is Demandred I am seeing in all the Taim scenes. It will change the entire feel of the book.


    Wow. What a revelation. The biggest ever from the WOT universe, as far as I am concerned. Almost two decades of being part of the fandom has finally provided its reward, if long after the party has ended.

  7. thanks for the info terez,i have a question on an unrelated subject,a few years ago

    you wrote your opinion about rand and the voice in his head,i tried to reread it but

    failed to find it,can you help?


    Hmm, I never wrote this up in a single theory form; it's just something that I pontificated about for several years in many different places. So I don't know what to link. I started a chapter-by-chapter analysis of the voice but never finished it.

  8. You're not the first person to express that (unless you're Tom at RAFO, which seems doubtful), but it seems to me to be a strange way of looking at it. RJ always said that he didn't want to wrap everything up too neatly in the end because some things should be left up to the imagination. He created a world that was complex and rich enough to provide an endless series of paths for the future of that world. The later books contribute a great deal to that picture, and in my opinion, alternate universes don't diminish it.


    I think that the majority of fans who knew of RJ's comments on Taimandred had a hard time believing that Taimandred wasn't true in LOC, and I think that's where RJ missed the boat. He didn't realize how much Taimandred had shaped the thematic structure of LOC, and he thought he could get away with changing it post-publication. He was wrong, but it was a human mistake, and he was still the amazing writer who produced books 1-6 when he wrote the later volumes. He just had a difficult time putting out material as quickly as he needed to in order to make that portion of the story as powerful as books 4-6.


    There are two main reasons for that: 1) he ran out of buffer; when TEOTW was published, I believe he was already working on TDR; he really felt the squeeze with LOC, the last book in his 6-year 6-book contract; and 2) his health began to suffer from the LOC squeeze and tour and he was forced to adopt a more normal working schedule rather than writing all day every day. So he had no buffer, and he wasn't writing as much, and what should have been 3 long books turned into 5 relatively short ones (though KOD had bits that should have gone with the last 3 books; I think 12 would have been perfect if there had been a tighter structure in the middle).


    I don't know what led him down the path of separating Taimandred, but it hasn't diminished my overall love of the story. I'm just happy to know for sure now that LOC was written with Taimandred in mind. Perhaps if this goes to film/TV one day, the story can be told with Taimandred intact and a very different ending based on RJ's notes (though there are some Brandon bits without which the story would suffer, IMO).

  9. Hi guys. I have been waiting for a few days to see if anyone would post about this here, but since no one has, I guess I have to do it. There have been enough Taimandred and Asmodean posts here over the years that I can't imagine it's of no interest to anyone.


    Taimandred killed Asmodean. As of LOC, anyway. Then RJ changed his mind.


    There are more bits from the notes later in the thread, if you have the patience to read through it. And Brandon has chimed in at reddit.

  10. Reading about power rankings really made my head hurt.


    You sure ain't kidding. My ADD kicked in immediately and I just gave up.


    I am hoping that someone will just make a nice graph or spreadsheet that will list all the channelers in order.


    Someone already did, before the Encyclopedia was released, based on the few entries they released in advance along with a few things I shared from the notes in order to clarify how the rankings work.


    The two numbers in blue are how the Aes Sedai power rankings appeared in RJ's notes. He apparently started out with a scale from 1-33, with Elaida etc. at the top and Daigian at the bottom. He then expanded the scale to include the Forsaken, which put Lanfear at the top. Thereafter he included both numbers in his notes on female channelers, with the second number in parentheses, to make sure he didn't confuse the two scales. Later he added the strengths of the male Forsaken and he apparently decided there would be 6 male levels on top of the 66 female levels for a total of 72 levels. That's the numbers all the way to the left in the green column.


    I did my own spreadsheet for the numbers we found in the notes, but I haven't yet checked it against the Companion or added any new ones. I'd share that one but I don't want to confuse anyone; I know of a few differences already, mostly but not always related to conflicting numbers in the notes.

  11. I am not sure the scans will ever be available online. The collection was donated with academics in mind rather than fans (which is kind of funny, but there it is). You can find tidbits in a few places:


    1. My Twitter feed (back to April 12)

    2. A thread on RAFO

    3. A thread on Westeros

    4. A thread on Theoryland


    I will be mostly staying away from Encyclopedia stuff until after it is published.

  12. Look, I just popped in the site last (and rafo) week to see that anything is happened over there, and... Rafo is completely dead. That is a fact.

    RAFO has been dead for a long time. That is a product of many things.


    And while I can see some activity in Theoryland - of course I don't know anything about PMs, there could be hundreds any day - what I can see is this: the site is collapsing, it is a slowly process, and it is a VERY SAD process (many of the best minds were over there), but if one extrapolates the number of the posts int last months = the site is almost dead already.

    It's not PMs so much these days; it's Facebook and JordanCon and the like. The people are still there, but happily, most of the assholes aren't paying any attention to it any more. There are still enough people around for an interesting discussion if we decide there is something worth discussing.


    Theoryland is not dying any more than Dragonmount is. It's always had less traffic than DM, though; we like it that way.


    You were in the library. Is is true that the notes are longer than the series?

    Not all the notes are at the library, but I don't doubt it's true, and what is at the library might come close. But it's like this: there are hundreds of files. You might have a Rand file here and a Cadsuane file there, both of which contain quite a bit of the same copy-pasted material. Like, a list of the Aes Sedai with Cadsuane and their bios. That is pertinent to both Rand and Cadsuane so it's in both files. Those Aes Sedai bios are copy-pasted from a master Aes Sedai encyclopedia-type file. Others are copy-pasted into other files (like Perrin's Aes Sedai, and Mat's). The Sea Folk file has bits that are copy-pasted into Elayne's file, and bits that are copy-pasted into Rand's file. But there are, like, 3 or 4 Rand files because obsoletion eventually leads to file turnover. Also, RJ would email Maria and Alan sometimes and ask them for a quote from the books, and they would send it to him, and he'd copy-paste the passage into the relevant file(s). Sometimes these passages are long. Sometimes there are multiple long passages.


    Based on what they said about the notes I had always expected this kind of thing. That said, there is a lot more information in the notes than I really expected, because I have always figured RJ kept most things in his head and wouldn't have had any need to, for example, explain what happened with Elayne's veil in Tanchico because he knew what happened and didn't need to remind himself. It's still true that he kept most things in his head, but in the early days he was making outlines for Harriet and Tom Doherty and whoever, and when Maria started working with his notes (around TPOD if I recall; before she was just doing fanmail) he might have started explaining more things to enhance her ability to assist with continuity. But he still only explained things he thought these people needed to know. He didn't like spoiling Maria, and it took some convincing on her part to get him to let her help with continuity.


    Is there any self-criticism written by Jordan regarding WoT?

    Not sure what exactly you're looking for. There is an immense amount of self-criticism in the story- and world-building notes, constant reminders to explain unexplained things (?how?) (?why?) and THIS NEEDS TO BE BETTER type notes. I gave an example of one of them on Twitter.
  13. For the record, I made those tweets before I saw the notes. Not saying there was anything in the notes about it. :wink:


    The way I see it, if Slayer was in the flesh as Isam when the Horn was blown (in TGH), then there should be no conflict. Luc's soul has to be dead and in Tel'aran'rhiod for the theory to have any purpose (i.e. for it to explain Slayer's powers). If he was in the flesh as Luc, I imagine he'd disappear.

  14. Aviendha wasn't spying on Rand in his dreams; that was the Dreamwalkers' job. They had her watch him in the waking world while they watched him in his dreams. They were somehow able to bring her into Tel'aran'rhiod (though I've always thought that was a bit of a continuity error) but she was not able to go to the place where the dreams are, which we at Theoryland call the Gap of Infinity (GOI). The Wise Ones didn't know how to teach that to anyone without the Talent, and besides, she was certainly awake while he was having that dream. Aviendha watching from the bank was probably symbolic of the fact that Rand hadn't yet admitted to himself that he was attracted to her.

  15. Great job; I could almost believe this Q&A was transcribed, but it seems you just have some good shorthand skills. I have a list of stuff a mile long that needs to be transcribed. For the record, the Tinkers thing was in book 6, but I'll make footnotes in the database for stuff like that.


    Edit: Oh, I see Chris W. did it. I wonder if that's the Chris W. of Malazan infamy...

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