Like many others I’ve also found Galadriel to be difficult to like but in this last episode it occurred to me that the point that was made in episode 2 about Elrond disappearing on Durin for 20 years is likely meant to draw our attention not only to how Elves experience time but also how they learn, grow, and age as a result of that experience. 
 

Galadriel is still barely a young adult by elven standards and like any young adult she struggles to navigate the world with the same wisdom, patience, and tact that comes with age. I’m feeling quite confident that the writing will be solid enough to impart that sense of growth as the show matures so that we’ll begin to see glimpses of the Galadriel we’ve already met in the third age. 

7 hours ago, Ralph said:

Late to the party as usual - 

 

A question

 

Sorry I can't keep track of all our esteemed contributors and who holds what

 

How many people who liked the show until now, and were OK with the changes (not just tolerating and waiting until they stop, but trying to understand why) , were now put off and felt it is no good? 

 

Poll material? 

 

That’s really a good question. I did a lot of mental gymnastics and defended many of the changes as being understandable even if I personally didn’t like them. But I’m definitely feeling disappointed with the last episode. 

The thing that really did it for me beyond the anticlimactic battle at the eye was the fact that Perrin’s internal conflict between warrior/smith wasn’t developed at all even though they introduced a wife whom he killed in order to advance his arc. 8 episodes and one of the main characters really just stood around doing nothing at all.    
 

Wow this episode left me really confused. Were we told the DO is actually Ishy? I’ve been scrambling to explain the storyline to my wife but I’m at a loss with the Ishy thing.  I remember it being confusing in the books too. Is the audience just meant to believe that’s the DO and my book knowledge is ruining it? 
 

Waited 8 episodes for my boy Perrin to do something/anything. Left disappointed. 
 

Lots of changes which I don’t particularly mind but it felt like the entire season as been a big crescendo and then very little climax. 
 

I think overall this was a low point in the season but there was a lot to love too.

The design of the wall at tarwin’s gap was really imaginative. Those stairs on the outside were awesome. I enjoyed the battle for the most part. The circle with those two random women was a little haphazardly put together but Nyn and Eg’s moment was powerful. 
 

In spite of my previous doubts about Rand, I really started to root for him this episode. I  appreciated his sense of selflessness and respect when he was talking about Egwene. I’m liking him much better in the show than in the books at this point. 
 

SEACHAN. Costume design is epic. Can’t wait to see more of them. 
 

5 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I had the same feeling watching this episode, especially on a rewatch. The micro-expressions these actors pull off are absolutely gorgeous, especially any scene Nynaeve is in and certain moments with Lan. I'm thinking specifically of the hallway scene after the dinner. You can see the love in Lan's eyes for Nynaeve and then literally watch it dim, fade, and vanish as he internally thinks of his responsibilities and fast-approaching death. Incredible.

Yes! The hallway scene was brilliant. Lan and his mashiara. ?

6 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

Hmmm, another episode that's left me with mixed feelings. Think I'm moving in a slightly more positive direction now.

 

Liked

• The acting - across the board - this week. I feel like the actors have read the books and really 'get' the characters. Sometimes their expressions just so perfectly add something to the scene - Zoe Robins subtly projecting Nynaeve's uncertainty in herself, Egwene's self-confidence, Perrin's sense of 'being too big', Rand's innocence.
• I liked Lan's retelling of his story. Thought Henney really nailed Lan's character and the writing was good, too.
• Scenery - I liked the Ways and the Blight actually (maybe my expectations are low and being exceeded!?), and the Fal Dara interiors, too.
• Min! Totally different from how I imagined her but I actually like showMin better than mine (so far, anyway). I picture her as more intense; I liked her casual, offhand manner.
• The music - not really noticed it before, but there were a couple of times this week where I noticed and liked it.

Disliked

• The writing (in places). Lan strays further from bookLan every week. I wish I could just accept that they are not writing the same character but he looks like Lan, and acts like Lan (when he's not talking) so I think this is going to carry on bugging me.
• Lan and Nynaeve having sex. Doesn't fit with Nynaeve's character (she's really quite prudish in places in the books), and I don't see why it was necessary. I'm seeing people saying it's to accelerate their relationship...erm, she basically proposes to Lan at this point in the books! It just feels like including sex to sell which I'm uncomfortable with.
• The love triangle thing. Unnecessary and adds nothing that I can see.
• Agelmar - came off like a cartoon character.
• Tigraine - having just given birth for the second time I really disliked the portrayal of a woman in late stage labour being able to take part in combat so spectacularly. It belittles what women go through when giving birth and - I may be wrong - but reeks of a man writing this without consulting women.

 

I'm actually wondering if the set up with Rand and Moiraine going to the Eye alone, combined with all new idea that whoever goes to the Eye apart from the Dragon will die means they might be bringing Moiraine's extended absence forward to the next episode? I think based on previous changes the writers would be happy making such a dramatic change. It would give them a shock ending (like Ned Stark's execution), and they have been very heavy handed with some foreshadowing of the bond breaking, Alanna-Moiraine chat scene, whole Stepin episode, Moiraine making sure Lan knows she likes Nynaeve etc. a very long way in advance of the event if they keep it in its original narrative place.

 

 

Do you think the bond will be transferred to Alanna instead of Myrelle? I’m quietly hopeful because Alanna has been such a great character in the show. 

Are we going to get Perrin’s hammer? We need one episode where Perrin isn’t just standing around with that gormless expression on his face like a massive Jon Snow. 

On 12/15/2021 at 5:48 PM, Dead Warder said:

Noice! I like it... it's far better than my rudimentary MS Paint art that I like to toss in random threads.

I’m more astonished that someone with your creative inclination is using MS and not Mac. Plot twist of the century. 

51 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I assume she would have sensed another woman channelling. If she saw what we saw, ie. a trolloc magically bouncing off of Rand & Egwene, then she must have realized that a man channelled. 

Oh derp. Of course! Thank you. That flew right over my head. 

5 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Calm down Ishy. Don’t get your knickers in a twist. ?

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

 

She knew from the Ways that a man channelled

I completely missed this. How did she know it was a man? 

4 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

One of the values of doing a montage reveal like that is the audience will easily make the connection between the reveal and the acting on the reveal.  Just like they will make the connection between Lan's statement of masking the bond and Rand and Moiraine leaving without telling anyone because Rand "can't lose anyone else in this room".

 

 

 

I totally understand the reveal. I’m just wondering if I missed a moment where Moraine became certain beyond taking Rand’s word for it. 

11 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

It's for the cw crowd I suspect.

Just like tossing Nynaeve in Lan's bed.

Nyn and Lan happened far too quickly for my liking too but I think it’s to speed up Moiraine’s decision to break the bond. 
 

In a perfect world I would have loved the yearning to drag on for at least 2 seasons. I really enjoyed the way they danced around one another. 

23 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

I really like Lan, even the kinder, gentler version of him. But whenever Lan goes to sleep, something happens. Warders commit suicide, his AS ditches him. DUDE, you've got one job, pay attention!

Lol the poor guy can’t catch a break. I made the assumption that Moiraine masked their bond to give him privacy with Nyn and he didn’t think much of it until he woke up and couldn’t find her.

Really enjoyed the episode and I only have one question.
 

So Rand shows up to Moiraine’s room and is just like “it me” and Moiraine’s just like “aight let’s go.”  
 

Did I miss something from earlier in the episode or is the audience just meant to not read too much into it. Seems like Moiraine would want to know for sure that it’s him before rushing away with him to what could be both their deaths. 

1 hour ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I fully expect a tragic end for the S&M relationship. As it stands right now, given the wording of the Oath, and the plot in the novels, Moiraine will never be able to return to Tar Valon without someone bringing the oath rod out and releasing her. Unless SS goes to FD, that was goodbye to both her lover, and her room in the WT.

I think you’re right. All that foreshadowing “I thought we’d have more time” and the exposition about knowing what it’s like to want something else. All signs point to tragedy. 

20 hours ago, Els said:

 Would love for them to reunite several seasons down the road but I fear their paths will diverge from each other and stay true to the books with Them and Gareth. For some reason I can't picture S/M getting their happy ending in this and it makes me sad. 

I’ve been thinking about this and the possibility of them not really crossing paths again. It’s been almost a decade since I read the last book but the lack of a reunion between S/M is still a sore spot for me. 
 

It would be a great slow burn to have them meet again in a later season, after Siuan’s downfall so to speak. There’s a lot of emotional material to explore there. 
 

My only concern about Siuan’s canon ending being used in the show is that it has all the makings of the “bury your gays” trope. The LGBT community (and lesbians in particular) are sensitive to queer characters being killed off as there’s been a long history of this trope in mainstream media. So I hope if she has to go then it’s at least done with sensitivity regarding this particular phenomenon. 

33 minutes ago, Cheetaiean said:

The Siuan Sanche casting is horrible (both in similarity to the book Siuan and in her acting), as is the general garish alien dress of the Amyrlin. Feels like those who approve only say so because she did a good job in some other tv show so has some brand recognition. She's only in the show because Rosamund Pike was friends with her beforehand and apparently Rafe Judkins likes her from somewhere too. 

On the plus side, Madeleine Madden (Egwene) played her part very well this episode and her naive youthful mannerisms really brought early-WoT series Egwene into the tv show! Excited to see more of her. 

What’s wrong with her acting? I thought she did a good job even though I’ve never seen her in anything else before. 

1 minute ago, WheelofJuke said:

I wasn't referring to the Mo/Su romance, which was one of the better changes because xyz reasons already mentioned. 

 

I'm probably not the best person to argue this point one way or another, just trying my best to see all sides! Definitely not trying to "make a point" just discussing things with an open mind. ?

 

 

 

I’m sorry about that. It seems I misunderstood. You’re quite right. It’s nice to see things from different perspectives so thank you for sharing. 

31 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

The episode where I really noticed the lack of male gaze was the one where the Whitecloaks capture Egwene and Perrin. If this was GoT we would have seen almost all of Egwene’s body while they were “purifying” her and it would have been very sexualized. Instead, the focus was almost entirely on her face and her anguish. You saw close ups of arms and legs being scrubbed roughly and the most violent thing shown was cleaning her finger nails (if you’ve never had a manicure that part can really HURT if the person doing it isn’t careful). Hands and especially finger tips are are really sensitive and intimate part of your body. There is a reason we hold hands with people we love. So that part felt incredibly invasive to me and really emphasized the horror of what the Whitecloaks were doing to her. 

Well said. I think the audience really got a feeling of unease and distress there.
 

Another instance were I had an “aha!” moment was in the bathhouse. The attendants were nude and one of my friends commented that he thought it was unnecessary. It occurred to me that if it was a men’s bathhouse with nude women attending them that the conversation surrounding necessity might have been a non-starter, such is our desensitisation to the male gaze. 

8 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

They shouldn't; however, tokenism is a real thing, as pointed out previously. 

 

Not saying I think this is the case, simply mentioning that side of it. 

I’m well aware of what tokenism is and I did read the post you’re referring to, but I wonder if we need to clarify.
 

Tokenism would be including a queer character for the sake of inclusion, whereupon that character’s queerness serves no purpose to the character’s development or the storyline as a whole. It’s basically exclusion via inclusion in a story.  We’ve been shown by at least 3 different posters here that their romance serves a greater purpose in the show even if it didn’t in the books. Rosamund Pike has also spoken on this in interviews. 
 

So I’m a little confused. If you don’t think this is the case, what exactly is your point? 
 

2 minutes ago, Zarathustra said:

I never wrote that.  I don't care about whether or not the characters were--now or when I first read the books. 

 

I do care about it ignoring the source material. Including that scene and making that choice with the narrative only serves to tap into a specific well of praise that is guarded by reviewers.

 

They could have handled this differently by simply using the RedA as a sub-plot.

Where is this praise well then? I assumed you were referring to the press. 
 

I see what you’re saying about the red ajah but depicting all lesbians as militant misandrists is probably not a good look. 

1 hour ago, Zarathustra said:

I simply don't care and did not when I read the books--it's not in the main sequence and that scene served no purpose other than tapping into a potential praise well and further alienating fans of the books (perhaps you should review the books, because they present a completely different narrative of the two after the death of Gitarra).  It's not good simply because you wanted something that was not in the books.  Of course, the casting choice and the sea folk tats are equally strange.

 

Queer characters are not necessary because the press tells us they are. They’re necessary because some people are indeed queer. Why should those experiences be relegated to side characters, bit dialogue, and innuendo? 

5 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Who else liked that the mashadar seemed to operate with a mind. After being pulled from Mat and in transit to the dagger it tried to get into Moiraine via the mouth?

 

I thought that was interesting. 

That was a very nice touch. For a moment there I thought it was going to succeed and Lan would have to call for help. 

54 minutes ago, gibbons said:

I believe rafe mentioned in his Q&A that dumais wells was a pivitol moment, or one of his favourites I can't recall his exact wording, so I would be surprised if it isn't a subtle nod to that.

The romance side of things is fine, though I wonder if the doorway they used is the same in function as the doorways used for the testing. If so I wonder if Siuan will have her authority attacked further for hoarding ter'angreal later on.

I think you’re onto something with the ter’angreal and it might be part of her undoing when they unseat her. 
 

I’m almost certain that in one of the books a number of sisters are found to have ter’angreal in their personal quarters and are punished for it. Does anyone remember the context or which book? 

1 minute ago, Ryrin said:

When is episode 7 being released?

Friday 17th 12am GMT.