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Everything posted by elric

  1. Nyn started as 1 of my least favorite but turn to 1 of my most favorites :) i find Nyn 1 of the most realistic Char , a fuller rounder char then most (cougfh Eggy Cough :) ), regarding only up to KoD i dont agrea with u about gimping Nyn. notice it not like all the Sea falk and Kin outstrip her but 1 speicific Kin who had HUGE talent for healing and 400+ (not sure here, correct me if i'm wrong plz) year of experience know better then her :)) also notice that Sumako hadnt reach Nyn discoveries . with the WF 1 speicific Channeler beat her in a practice duel and if u Examine Talaan -> strong as Nyn , younger in age (19 to 25) but more experience as channeler -> grow up in a channeling family, and subject to probably the harshest most gruelng training any char we met been trough. i c it as not let keep Nyn dowm but more as hey -> there are other amazing ppl around, it not their story but they do exist :)
  2. Knivi but u have to remember -> Nyn is not left handed as well :)))))) summerise: ;et me summerise (again) the info we have Eggy: *.very skiled *.very dexterois *. rediscovered AoL abilities *.not focus on channeling -> was learning -> dreraming + politic + history + etiqutte + spending LOT of time acting as Ameralin + spending LOT of time practicing politic and Dais Daimer *.not a warrior by nature -> (tried to quote but couldnt paste in) Eggy own perception of herself is as the embodiment of Amyrlin -> she accepted that Mess had Amyrlin traits -> and those traits are : administrator/ planer/ person of action who dont loosr her head and keep doing what needed *. never been in any duel outside of Tar *. during her battle in Tar she used tactic Nyn developed *. shown very poor skill in healing (shown not speculated by vogue remarks) Nyn *. 2nd most strongest channeler known in the WORLD (not counting forsaken) *. able not to memorise but to master weave by simply seeing it -> she is able not only to copy the weave but to modify and innovate it after seeing it once *. UNKNOWN dexterity *. duel experience against EQUAL opponents *. combat experience *. discovered abilities tought impossible even in AoL (a strong claim can be made that she would be able to prevent the breaking, if she was born few millenia earlier) *. warrior by nature: nothing motivate her more then competition in the Tar meeting when Eggy discovered they been eavsdropped Nyn charged in , while Ely (who we all agrea is very brave and quite reckless) floow more carefully in Tar battle with Mess , Eggy commented that holding Nyn away from battle is extremly hard thing to do. *. passed a Testing that was rigged to fail her and that was declared as the most harsh one of the oldest and more experienced sitter had ever seen. *. proove great SPEED and SKILL during her test , doing EVERY one of the 100 weave with speed and skill, and considering her state during the end of the test it say ALOT. *. dedicate most of her time to learn how to channel
  3. few remark about Taleen: a. Taleen is 19 year old, about if not older then Eggy and Elaine b. Taleen entire family is channelers, mother /aunt /cousins /grandmother.. and ALL of tm reached HIGH position as channelers. c. Taleen had much much more rigorious training then the ordinary WF/AS, and probably harder then the training all the 3 wondergirls got, such hard training that she a SEA FALK was driven to flea into the LAND away from the sea, the greatest sacrifice in her culture/upbringing. feel free to read her conversation with Nyn after the duel. d. it was clearly stated that Nyn fatigue was affecting her. so why u claim Taleen is inexperience bumpkin who should loose ??? Taleen is a TOP TIER chaneler, from a family of atleast above ordinary channelers who grow up between channelers and was train HARSHLY from a young age. and she fought a tired Nyn. there no shame or any indication for lack of skill in Nyn loosing.to her. and since we DONT KNOW how dexterious is Taleen using this fight to say Nyn lost -> Nyn have bad dexterity is simply a bad and incorrect argument.
  4. i tought about White for Galad, but white is more about LOGIC then about LAW. so i percieve white is 2nd option after Gray/ Green :)
  5. great post Sleeping :))) espaiceily loved this quote-> "Shivering, she withdrew slowly. Moghedien had good reason to dislike her, very personally, and the only sister who could match one of the Forsaken alone, when she could channel at all, was in Ebou Dar. "
  6. hmmm u want this world example to how DF organisation can grow ? Sciencetology ! :)))))
  7. Fianwe o.k it wasnt due to her refusing to surrender it was due to her impatience and tendacy to sometime disregard other ppl . still fall under CHARACTER FLOW and not CHANNELING DIABILITY. let try to put some order in this debate i think all can agrea on several facts: fact a:Nyn is stronger then Eggy fact b: Eggy is very dexterious and skilled. i douth any here argue this facts but A beeing dexterious NOT equal B is not dexterious or that A is more dexterious then B unless u know B dexterity. about the claim Nyn is lacking in skill: from ToM " "You're too experienced to have been given this test," Egwene ex-plained. "In a way, what happened is proof that you deserved the shawl when I granted it to you. You performed each of the weaves expertly, with speed and skill. I particularly liked the way you used 'useless' weaves, on occasion, to attack the things you saw." " and those are NOT healing weaves. also in book 3 Siuan speicificly tell Nyn she will need to be able to channel CALMLY, that verin say she allready (blocked and untrained) as strong as any AS but that she can chsnnel only inanger, and that beeing CALM under pressure is her hold up. also in book 3 when Sheriam catch the Gray man Nyn not only learn the AIR (NOT healing) weave she use but also immidately think of other uses and innovation to it. about Eggy beeing more combat oriented then Nyn from ToM " "I want you to be very careful," Egwene said. "You're the only one here who has faced one of the Forsaken directly, and you also have more experience with Tel'aran'rhiod than the others. If Mesaana arrives, you are to lead the attack." "I think I can manage that," Nynaeve said, the corners of her mouth rising. Yes, she could manage it. Holding Nynaeve back from attacking, that would have been the difficult task. " Nyn was alway the charge into battle type, never surrendering , never back up, she is a fighter as well as an healer in her core. about fighting skill: from ToM " Evanellein yelped, and Egwene used a trick Nynaeve had taught her__she imagined Evanellein being stupid, unable to think, unable to react. " a trick btw Nyn hadnt use vs Taleen which WASNT a real life or death fight. Duel experience: Nyn fought Moj and unlike some here i DONT belittle a win over a forsaken in a duel and fought 2 LINKED BA both strong enough to create portals (NOT weaklings) Eggy duel who ???? mass combat effectivness: Eggy had roughly 2 month with the Senchean and learn few basic destruction weave and seen 2 combat Palm + Cair Nyn was in Palme and accompany Rand watching several fight , including the attack on the farm house and Eggy can only blast while Nyn can blast AND heal so even in not a duel situation in battle situation i will go with Nyn, do anyone think healing had no benefit in combat situation ?
  8. dont lie: just add "as ppl say" or something like that before EVERY sentence , ppl will say anything so it not a lue :) dont kill: so go for incapacitating :) come patient are still alive , right ? :)) power weapon: make power tools 2H blacksmith hammer cough PERRIN cough :))) cycles SCYTHE -> AS of DEATh :)))))
  9. i would enjoy seeing Galad discovered as Channeler :) it seem like a nice ending to his endavour to re-educate his idiots :) progress so fer : work with channeler to save the world -> talk BEFORE you charge -> work with ppl who have strange abilities ->check if a person is guilty or not BEFORE you judge-> accept healing from channeler -> work UNDER ppl with strange abilities -> Galad as channeler: have a channeler as yoyr commander. also i dont think there more deserving Char to get such power , he is by far the most Ethic char in the book :) btw if Galad could channel what Aja u think is best for him. i'm torn between Grey (as judge more then diplomat) or Green
  10. it has been established that Nyn is miraculous with healing and dismal with all else. no it HADNT been . Nyn is good with atleast spirit as well Delving / compulsion undoing Nyn passed the most grueling tersting in the last 100-200 years (the min- max age i giving Saerin), showing she didnt just memorise the 100 weave but that she CONTROL them and ablke to modify them in way that no one seen before. Proof has been provided of her getting spanked in a duel do to lack of dexterity, against an opponent of EQUAL steangth and unknown dexterity. how dexterious is Taleen ? u cant say X loose to B couse she less dexterious so that mean X is less dexterious then C without knowing the how C is in regard to B. also the Taleen fight dont support the ASSUMPTION that Dex is ALL , streangth is nothing, becose Taleen is AS STRONG AS Nyn, and Yes Taleen would beat Eggy with ease. and unlike you i DONT disregard it like wrestling -> u KNOW how to wrestle quote just becouse it dont support my Theory. proof has been provided of her lack of touch in regular channeling with something as simple as linking, again no it hadnt all it show is that Nyn have problem in surrendering and passing the control. just like the wind finder who did the weather ritual. it the exact problem that couse Nyn block -> her difficulty to surrender it like saying: this is a bad soldeirs couse he cant accept authority becouse of that he a lausy sniper while IGNORING the shhoting range results proof has also been provided with an RJ quote saying out of the three Nyn would struggle with regualr channeling skills in testing because she is "too specialized" again wrong ! the quote say Nyn will have problem PASSING the test, without any indication to her struggeling i regular channeling and Nyn DID had problem passing the test due to her lack of calm and the test beeing rigged against her and literally designed to fail /kill her Further proof of Egwen's dexterity has been shown and it is well established that she is the one who has the drive, skill and works hardest in learning everything possible and then shows inventive changes with those diverse weaves while Nyn disdains all else aside from healing. how much channeling Eggy did since beeing Amerilin ??? (i asked it atleast 3 time allready yet you still ignore that point) beside discovering Traveling and cuandilar(sp?) making please show any inventive use of weave by Eggy ??? and when ever did Eggy was in a OP duel !!! ??? i honestly dont rem 1 time she was in actual OP duel, unless you count the fight in Tar which has MUCH more to do with dreaming then in OP, and yes in Tar Eggy win against anyone exept Perrin. Fianwe please remind me. did Eggy tought she can solo Mess in OP duel or in a TAR fight ?
  11. a. about Memorising spell not counting as skill: Nyn not just memorise her weave she is able tto modify and innovate them in stressfull situatuion , to me it show that her memorising the weave also give her full controll and skill at those weave. b. Nyn Dwelling: Nyn not only master healing but master dwelling which at least in my opinion require finnece and not just brute streangth c. Nyn linking. the problem Nyn had wasnt in mastering the skill but in surrendering /passing the control, Nyn is a control freak and had trouble in surrendering to other in ANY situation power relared /social related...... d. Egy more skilled and dexterious AGAIN show me where it say Egy has more dexterity ? yup Egy is dexterious no argue, but that dont refer to Nyn beeing less. and about skilled -> after beeing Raised Egy hardly practice channeling (beeing buisy in learning history /dais daimer / politic /scheaming /Mogy questioning/ dreaming / doing Ameralin duties...) while Nyn never stopped practicing
  12. a. about Memorising spell not counting as skill: Nyn not just memorise her weave she is able tto modify and innovate them in stressfull situatuion , to me it show that her memorising the weave also give her full controll and skill at those weave. b. Nyn Dwelling: Nyn not only master healing but master dwelling which at least in my opinion require finnece and not just brute streangth c. Nyn linking. the problem Nyn had wasnt in mastering the skill but in surrendering /passing the control, Nyn is a control freak and had trouble in surrendering to other in ANY situation power relared /social related...... d. Egy more skilled and dexterious AGAIN show me where it say Egy has more dexterity ? yup Egy is dexterious no argue, but that dont refer to Nyn beeing less. and about skilled -> after beeing Raised Egy hardly practice channeling (beeing buisy in learning history /dais daimer / politic /scheaming /Mogy questioning/ dreaming / doing Ameralin duties...) while Nyn never stopped practicing
  13. Suit it was said so in the book Nyn won 1st round. the sea falk watching told Tal ->" she use your power against u, it like wrestling and u know how to wrestle" -> Tal won the next 2 rounds. Ent i will bet on GSP against Silva every day of the week and twice on sunday :) and on Frank Shemrok against any of them but under UFC 1-10 rules (the everything go rules)
  14. join the dark side they pay well in the dark side it warm and fuzzy in the dark side :))) i think it a combination of 2 reasons 1. greed , as was said DF is networking u get some benefit social/monitary/ super natural... dpend on your value to the dark one and on what u want 2. i think Hag earlier respond demonstrate it the BEST. Hag respond to the "imagine if 1/2 your professor been devil worshipper" was "cool man" :) most ppl dont really believe in the Dark one , the LB ..... and certaintly that it is so near . say i come to you and offer u a valid good job with better pay and perks and all u have to do is take an oath to the devil. will u do it ? out of 1000 how many will agrea ? out of 1000 how many will actually believe that this oath actually have any consequences ? and that without the immortality hook which play on humanity most base fear ;)
  15. no one argue that Eggy is VERY skilled and dexterous no one argue she is one of the MOST SKILLED AS in this generation (or even any generation). where does it show that Nyn isnt one as well ? is her ability to pull miracles that AOL AS wasnt able to is such a sign ? is her passing the probably most difficult testing in the last 200 years or so, a testing where several of the tester tried to break her and force her to fail ? and btw about Taleene and Nyn fight -> Taleene use wrestling skill in this fight and it clearly said that she know how to wrestle while as far as i know Nyn never learn any type of martial art (if anyone have PDF version of WH feel free to post the "it like wrestling kid , and u know how to wrestle" quote), so it was less about OP skjill and dextirity and more about general fighting skill (between 2 channeler of roughly SAME streangth). a small out of topic remark: it was mentioned earlier in this debate woman are better at Tar then man ->i wonder what Perrin the REAL LORD of Tar think of that :))))
  16. it was the Domani King. and just to pinpoint the very correct responds above me :) who do usend to a delegation of ALEIDA (sp ?) loyal AS who been stuck for a quite sometime and probably are out of touched with recent development: a.a MALE channeler ? b.a REBEL AS ? c.a LEGENDARY AS of the HIGHEST reputation and a tendecy and ABILITY to bully other AS when she think they act stupid ? d. none of the above ? :)))
  17. Mr Ares i agrea it CAN be viewd as if referring to Nyn other chaneling area. but it ALSO CAN refer simply to her ability to be AS and to her lacking in any other AS aspect -> decorume, general knowledge .... :) it not as cut and dry as it was presented in this debate :) (i simply said it a bit sarcasticly :)) ). and keeping in mind that it a personal opinion of 1 char who been known to make mistakes here and there an opinion formed during a VERY stressfull time and that atleast to me seem more like a snide remark or stress/ mood outlet Nyn performance in the testing greatly under rated by some in this debate. her ablity as channeler and healing IS channeling her great skill in delving which atleast to me indicate skill and percision and not simply brute streangth. i do believe that counting this as the main proof to Nyn < skilled / dexterous then Eggy is a stretch.
  18. not arguing it Dur :) i agrea it was in reaso toward Mat , espeicelly if u consider that Nyn was her main source of information :)) and that with Perrin it was politic. but i still find it a bit annoying :) my main issue is the 3rd -> the to big to fast jump in ability . but again i dont hate her :) and i fully agrea her good trait are more dominant :)
  19. Sutt since my WH copy is translated paper book i took the liberty of reposting your quote Sut WH Quote "The girl had good material in her, but her training had been cut far too short. Her ability with Healing was little short of miraculous, her ability with almost anything else dismal." i admist english aint my native languege so i may be missing something but but where in this quote it say her ability with any other type of CHANNELING is dismal ? the quote clearly refer to Nyn incomplete AS training but these training include many other things beside channeling. also considering that altough they lack much of the AS knowledge the wise one casting technique is superior (no hand movment as requierment, able to unweave constructs, more focus on practice and experimenting with the force rather then follow age old traditions...) is Nyn lack of AS train a bad thing of is it an advantage ? btw considering the healing IS channeling claiming that a person is a GREAT and IMBA SKILLED healer but a lousy channeler is kind like claiming -> Hawking is a GREAT Phisicist but he a lousy scientist in everything else. this is just in regard to cadsuan remark there been several more points like where does it say Eggy is more dexrerious then Nyn ? like Bruke Leshner as Streangt vs agility and skill example and more :) Fion the Eggy vs 5 quote please remind me the book /situation and there a BIG diffrence between what one THINK he can do to what he actually can :) and Eggy never suffer from self confidence issue to say it mildly :))) and where does it say/show that Nyn is less dexterious that Eggy. she show great dexterity in her healing spells dealing with multiple weaves. i also not sure Eggy no more (and btw knowledge is not dexterity) consider she stop practicing channeling after she become amerilin.
  20. there few things that annoy me with Elayne : her inital treatment of Mat. her attidute to Perrin and mostly that sharp change in skill from the totall idiot in the sea falk deal to to the genious who literally rob Matt in the cannon deal. but her good traits do over shadow her annoying ones :). i think most of the hate toward Elayne is the general hate toward the way 90% of the woman in WoT are described (espeicelly in their attidute toward the males)
  21. Nyneav would beat Eggy. experience: Nyn went trough several life or death OP duels against forsaken and LINKED BA while as far as i rem i dont recall ANY duel Eggy did (if she had plz remind me of it). battle training: Eggy 'famous' sanchean train was as i recall only few month that MOST of it was dedicated NOT to train her but to BREAK her and mold her to the collar, she simply picked few basic destruction weaves and learned she can locate mineral which indicate she good with earth. Streangth: Nyn was stated as much stronger several time from several povs and in several diffrent situation. Dexterity. where does it say Eggy is more dexterious ? yes Eggy is extremly adpet and agile, but also is Nyn. healing the taint holding each spike with a diffrent spirit weave (unknown number of spikes) and that AFTER spending lot of power cleaning the city from the flameable dust and beeing quite exhousted. healing the wounded maiden which Ellaine describe as weaving 4 dresses at once one with each limbs and that while still blocked and at the VERY START of her training. Knowledge and finesse i dont recall Eggy doing much OP learning and training. after her rising to Amerylin , most of Eggy time was spent on politic /scheaming/ learning law and history and when it does mention she practice it was in dreaming. while Nyn kept practicing and honing her channeling. about the claim that Nyn ability to learn weaves by simply looking at it once is just copying , mere copying wouldnt allow Nyn to master those new weave and to modify /innervate them with such ease. also Nyn kept discovering things that been considared IMPOSSIBLE in AOL -> healing compulsion , healing the taint maddness. also i found Nyn dwelling ability as a sign who show how honed and refine her skill become, her OP dwelling ability is all about finesse and control. Cadsuan Remark. yes Nyn is abisimal AS-> she is impulsive, she has great problem controlling her temper, she DARE to actually show emotion in public, she is the VERY STREOTYPE of the yellow Aga -> healing is the most importent all the rest is minor to it., she dont know history, she dont learn the law, her etiquette is about non existing, her patience is M.I.A.... there a LOT of thing that define u as AS and Nyn probably abisimal in most of them but to take this remark ignore the part that the channeling Nyn do is border on the legendary and jump to the conclusion that Nyn good ONLY at healing and suck at EVERYTHING else is a bit of a stretch. and about the argument the Dex rule , streangth dont play a part: take Jacky Chan/Jet li / Goerge st Pier (sp ?) / Frank Shemrock (imo Frank much better then Ken) / Royce Gracy/your favorite fighter... can u beat them probably not. now transfer their entire personality /maturity and skill set to a body of a 10 year old -> will u beat them now ??? another example that jump to mind: Bruck Lesner vs Frank Mir 1 & 2 first 1 Bruck who had zero MMA knowledge lost to Mir after dominating the early fight -> Aliv vs Cin (altough Ali WON, cin retreated) 2nd fight -> Bruck dominated the more skilled /more agile /more dexterious Mir
  22. Master Ablar i use circle becouse Sanchean CANT link (the Adam prevent it). so even if they be prepared they cant create a strong enough defence to block the power of a circle. since solo channelers cant streangthen the same weave the weave of the circle will simply overwhelm the solo defences also a circle can allow u to destroy a city in 1 shot preventing or atleast limiting the option the secure away importent leaders or the city channelers.
  23. a +5 shock+bane (shadowspawn) + flaming burst Hammer :))) it clearly a weapon with super abilities at the VERY LEAST .
  24. Mr Ares u think Galagen is the only one who command an Army in the Sanchean empire ? dont u think they have local Governor with certain Autonamy ? and if the central Goverment is destroyed (as Semy actually did) how u think it affect the Empire ? the Loyalty as far we seen is tied to the EMPRESS and her blood line , without is the empire can split into separeted Kingdoms same as what happend to Howking Empire. i sorry i cant provide quotes but i have PAPER books (who are translated from english) and with all due respect to u and our debate i have NO intention to start DLing books just to save you the time to check the scene yourself :) (the only PDF i have is GTS and ToM and when it related i do provide quotes from this 2) in the Cleansinf scene Aginor was attacked by a HUGE fireball (who was strong enough to evaporate the head of an entire hill) and guess what -> the genius Forsaken , didnt side step, didnt deflect, didnt figure a way to undone the MUCH weaker weave (the the cleansing weave) he DIED. Morden great example. let me try another analogy to describe the diffrence: building an Ice statue and throwing an ice ball are both playing in Ice. but it much diffrent issue to dirupt the statue making then to distrupt the iceball flying at u. (espaicelly if that ice ball is several ton in size)
  25. u forget Corowin have gracewonder a PATERN imbued sword. and every other prince probably have one as well (we know Eric and Blaze had). and i would add Gerard to your list. :)
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