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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Alric

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Posts posted by Alric

  1. Is there an overview of the latest editions of the books so that I can check if its the latest before I buy? I'm guessing I'll have to visit a good old fashioned book store to be sure which one I get.

     

    I'd love to see a "changelog" too although I doubt they do those.

  2. Yeah I figure it will never be explained, unfortunately I latch on to the oddest things when I read, they are never of any consequence but they are the holes that bother me the most.

    I latch onto such things too. But most don't annoy me. They just simply won't get out of my mind. Some of them I have not asked about here simply because I know there aren't good answers.

  3. If it wasn't so obvious that our age is the 1st Age, the continents could easily be explained by several Breakings, and not just one. Then it suddenly makes sense that people would survive them without catching fire. But that Mercedes hood ornament and those stories are very unlikely to have survived for several more cycles.

  4. I actually don't disagree with most of what you say, but I simply think he knew enough and that that's supported in the text.

     

    But I guess we're kind of moving in circles here and that it would be better to let people pick up new aspects of this for new insights rather than to go on about things we can't prove definitely one way or the other. 

     

     

  5. ^ I don't think I called it murder, I just said it was wrong and that he had enough knowledge to be able to figure out he should stay out of it instead of willingly engage. Not sure if that was directed at me though. Clearly he rationalized it in one way or another, even though he probably knew that his emotions got the better of him.

     

    The "ultimately it led to [everything good that happened later]" argument just doesn't work, neither as a defense or as a rationalization of people's motives. RJ dishes out punishment to practically everyone who does ethically reprehensible things, no matter how it helped the Light in the end.

     

    I can't remember the exact wording of what happened with the warders, but since we know that the BA was involved, I wouldn't necessarily bet that it was Siuan's supporters who first drew blood. Gawyn says that Siuan has been declared BA, and we know they killed her warder. I think that makes it fair to assume that her allies were attacked, which would not really leave them with much choice. In fact, considering that declaration I would guess some of them figured out that they were indeed fighting a real BA plot.

     

     

  6. Just lost everything i wrote..................... :mad:

     

    Basically I disagree with those who says he didn't know better. I think he knew enough. And I can't see the proof of an obligation to fight for the Tower. Additionally the quotes show that he chose to take lead. It might be a question of interpretation, but that's what I get from the text. Seems like we will just have to agree to disagree on the interpretation.

     

    As for the comments about his siding with Elaida being technically legal... of course. But I don't think that's relevant or interesting at all. I just scratch my head about the implying that he had no way of knowing and no choice. Clearly the way RJ portrays it he _is_ conflicted, emotional, and irrational.

     

    I won't blame him for lack of backbone for not killing Siuan. That he faltered at least shows us that he has second thoughts, which is a good thing. Unfortunately it can't make up for all the lives lost because of his actions. If he had went through with that there would be no reason for him not to kill Min, who was also involved in whatever plot he thought was going on. We know he's conflicted, but at least not a sociopath. 

     

     

  7. We don't know that there's any law saying that anyone who trains with warders have to fight for the Tower. Especially not when that person is a royal and obviously has loyalties elsewhere. Like I said, there are redeeming factors, but it seems quite obvious from the text that he made a choice. There's nothing passive or reactive in what he did, it is his own choice to take the lead. That, along with the fact that he knew Elaida (whom Elayne disliked even before arriving in the Tower) and that he knew where Elayne, Min and Egwene stood, makes his actions very troubling.  

     

    Considering where RJ took this in the next books, throwing even more misery his way, sent out to be killed by Elaida, the rumors about Morgase, and running into Rand and making things worse instead of resolving them... I think the path is quite clearly laid out. Make wrong decisions for the selfish and emotional reasons = punishment. He needed to be hardened, and everything will get worse until he learns to control himself and make tough but right choices. I have no idea where this ends, because I'm only at WH, but I feel that this is heading to a place where he will have to own up to what he's done. Good people don't get away with doing bad things in this series. 

     

     

  8. I don't have the book right here, but I can't remember that anyone forced (or even asked) him and his men to fight for Elaida. Min was unsure about who he would support, and it is very much implied that he made his own choice. And I am acknowledging that he seemed a bit conflicted about his choice when they meet again the next day(?). Still, it was his choice to make and it would seem to me that he had three alternatives and chose the worst. He knew Elaida, he knew what she was like, he knew what Elayne thought about her, and he knew that Elayne, Egwene and Min were with Siuan.

     

    Edit: I read the chapter again now. There is indeed no proof that he was forced to take a stand.

     

    Min was not about to tell them that Warders from the Blue and Green Ajahs had planned to free them before they were stilled, and might have succeeded if Gawyn had not roused the students, "children" too, and led them into the Tower to stop it. The fighting had been among the deadliest, student against teacher and no mercy, no quarter.

     

    "You killed Coulin?" Siuan said in a cold tone fitting her former office. "And Hammar?"

    Min's heart sank. Be quiet, Siuan! Remember who you are now, and be quiet!

    Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with . . . with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved the paper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! Go, before I change my mind!" He slapped her mare, then darted to slap the other two as Min's horse leaped through the open gates. "Go!"

     

    While we can't be 100% sure, my impression is that by far the most likely explanation is that he chose Elaida's side out of spite (or desperation out of fear for Elayne/Egwene if you want a more redeeming reason). I think that him letting Siuan go shows us he is struggling with it and that is a redeeming factor, but all in all it doesn't make up for all the wrongs.

     

     

  9. and while his choice was pretty stupid (to support either side, or to think he actually knew what was going on) sanche and the rest of the aes sedai are much more to blame because of their obfuscation and the opacity of their organization. even his sister is to blame for not trusting him with the truth of what was happening even if it was against suian's wishes.

     

    Siuan's obfuscation does not make her _more_ to blame for his actions. There's only one person responsible for Gawyn's actions. I realize that it was difficult for him, and that is also portrayed in the text when he runs into them. While I'm glad that he spared the life of Siuan (I can't imagine he would have killed Leane or Min), that does not in any way free him of responsibility for jumping into the fray and slaughtering the warders some of whom he had trained with and had no reason to have antipathy against. There are some redeeming factors, but the responsibility for his choices, fueled by personal dislike, can not be laid on Siuan who merely did what she had to in order to protect the DR and fight the BA. Had she prioritized the feelings of the spoiled First Prince of Andor over those, things would certainly have been more disastrous.

  10. Tanchico sounds good. A decent warm climate, hilly terrain with bays and peninsulas, distinct architecture with white intricate buildings, lots of different districts, lots of cultural exchange because of trade and the fact that its a seaport, interesting exotic food, lots of history and museums with artifacts from earlier Ages.

     

    Too bad it fell to the Seanchan, I could never live under their rule.

     

     

  11. I would suggest after book 5 or 6. Then most of the info regarding the world has been gradually revealed, and you aren't spoiling that. Also, the minor characters in NS (mostly namedroppings but a few notable exceptions) will then be known to you from the main series. I also think that its a good time to flesh out the characters of Moiraine, Siuan, and Lan, since major stuff has happened to them at this point in the main series. Some suggest waiting until publication order (after book 10) but to be honest, I don't see much point in that, in fact I almost think you miss out a bit by not knowing until then (especially about the three characters mentioned).

  12. I have noticed that a very good number of characters have commented on Moiraine's beauty, more than many if not most other characters in fact. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Thom, Cetalia, Cadsuane, Siuan and I'm sure others I've forgotten. RJ obviously never meant to make her compare to Lanfear, but still he throws in quite a lot of comments on her looks. Since she hasn't been mentioned much yet, so I'll just put that out there...

     

    Siuan about Moiraine:

     

    The sight of Moiraine always made her smile. Cetalia had been wrong in one particular. She was not a pretty little porcelain doll; she was a beautiful little porcelain doll.

     

    I also love the small details about character's looks that RJ throws in, it really fleshes out the characters in your mind. For example:

     

    Bera and Kiruna were herded in by Corele Hovian, a boyishly slim Yellow with thick black eyebrows and a mass of raven hair that gave her something of a wild appearance no matter how neatly she dressed, and she always dressed for a country dance, with masses of embroidery on her sleeves and bodice and up the sides of her skirts. Corele never failed to seem amused, whatever happened, but now she wore a wide smile somewhere between disbelief and outright laughter.

     

    Mat about Aludra:

     

    She was older than he had thought, at least ten or fifteen years older than he, but pretty still, with large, dark eyes and a small, full mouth that seemed on the point of a pout. Or getting ready for a kiss.

     

    And this one, Mat does not recognize Siuan (and hilarity ensues) :laugh: :

     

    He [...] walked quickly to where a pretty, blue-eyed young woman was tapping her foot to the music. She had a sweet mouth, just right for kissing, and he bloody well wanted to enjoy himself. "I saw your eyes, and I couldn't help coming over. Will you dance?"

     

     

  13. This is going to be interesting... :laugh:

     

    The way the poll is worded, I would assume it refers to physical beauty, and according to RJ descriptions, it seems Lanfear and Berelain top that list. He goes on to point out how the beauty of several of the major characters fade compared to Lanfear.

     

    If you take into account things like personality on style, this is just another "your favorite char" poll, and we can go on forever and no one will be the wiser.

     

     

     

     

     

  14. As I said in another thread, I think it is best to read it in publication order, which would be after book 10 (Crossroads of Twilight). The second best point to read it (if you can't wait that long) would be after book 6 (Lord of Chaos).

     

    The reason is that if you read up to book 10, you will get to meet an important character introduced late in the main series before (s)he shows up in New Spring. Also, if you have at least read book 6 you will know the fates of two of the major characters in New Spring. Not knowing this makes New Spring less rewarding, even though its certainly still a good read.

     

    Another matter, which is very important to me, is to avoid spoilers. I like the gradual introduction to the world and how the Power works in the main series. If you start out with New spring before the main series, this gradual revelation is "spoiled". Not everyone cares as much about this, but since I do, I thought I'd mention it.

     

     

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