I actually could care less (yes, that's how you use THAT phrase, lol) who Nakomi is. I NEVER cared. ... What works me up is the PRACTICE that Team Jordan has now taken in refusing to asnwer questions fans have. It is inexcusable. See my above post. It is sickening.

 

 

Fish

You could care less about who she is? So you do care some? 

My first thought was, can we even all agree on rand? Personally I'm only a fan of "Dark Rand" whom I prefer to refer too as "Logical Rand".

Who hates Moraine? Or Thom? Oh yea and I've never heard anyone say the pay hate Flinn.

Okay I was re-reading Winter's Heart and in one of the first chapters (perhaps the first) we find out Rand is asking about Shara in Rhuidean. Do we find out why? Does it come up later in the book and I just forgot?

Wasn't this when he was still Emo Rand, and he was disturbed about how his existence affected the world negatively? He heard that a place he had never heard of, or seen was rioting just because he existed. He was bemoaning the loss, pain, and violence that he coming brought.

What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

Where does this knowledge come from? In particular, I mean:

1. That wolfkinship is tied to the soul.
    
   
2. That a soul always manifests such properties when they exist in the world.
   

I'm assuming it's an assumption because of the fact that hopper tells him the soul of wolves come to the wolf dream when they die, and I'm pretty sure he says or implys that Perrin's soul would as well. So while I would question it as well, it is strongly implied that Perirn, being basically a wolf (within the wolf dream and such), he should always be one right?

We know channeling run in bloodlines, if a channeler have a child it is a bigger chance that child will be a channeler or that their children will be, but what about other abilities, if you have a sniffer is there a bigger chance a sniffer's children will inherit the ability? What about wolf brothers do that run in family lines?

That's a popular assumption by the characters in the books but it's by no means certain. There is evidence. Like Rand's children from Aviendha, Morgase-Elayne, Ayyad in Shara, Emarin-Algarin (there is mention of the family's male ancestors having an unnamed problem, most likely it's channeling) , or from AMoL Prologue:

 

Samma N'Sei

 

AFAIK there is no definitive answer to it in the interview database, someone correct me if I'm wrong. What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

 

Also can a woman be a sniffer?

Most likely. But we have only seen one sniffer, so I don't know. There can be wolfsisters though.

This is right on. There are a couple threads with people debating, myself included, on how can it be heridatary. Basically the math doesn't add up. But RJ strongly implys that it is able to be passed down when he says the WT has "culled" the ability out by gentling men. (Which makes 0 sense, but I won't debate that here again).

1) Theres no real location that it comes from. The Channeler sees it coming from right in front of them, people watching see it coming from their body. Like my comment earlier about shielding and a endlessly vast space that's impossibly small. It comes from all places and none

2) No one knows what worms become. We never will. It would be cool to know however.

3) I don't think the game can be won. I think it's a game meant to teach kids a lesson, and it cannot be won without cheating. I can make up a game that's impossible to win. I don't think it's a pure luck thing

4) No. Nothing says his future glory has to be in serivce of the light. However I'd think if she saw glory in the service on the DO, it would have blackness around it or something.

5) We don't know that for sure, however you have to remember Lanfear is pretty damn powerful and knows things. She's too powerful a pawn to give up. I'm pretty sure he went in just go get her

6) I'm not sure if there's an answer to this. However I would speculate they picked that role because someone before them did, and thus it became known as a place for Sea Folk AS. I'd imagine they like to hang together.

Did Berelain and Rhuarc have some love thing going on with each other in Lord of Chaos?

no Rhuarc and Berelain kind of adopted each other, Amys even went as far as to give her the daughters kiss or whatever

I had the impression that Berelain tried her seducing skills on Rhuarc, but he (or someone else) nipped it in the bud pretty quickly and effectively. It never says it, but there's something in they're early dialog that seemed to hint at it. I don't have quotes.

 

Rhurac made it quite clear to her (possibly in a physical way) in the Stone of Tear that he wouldn't tolerate her flirting with him. It's mentioned in LoC - or at least alluded to.

He alluded too it when he broke up the Faile and Ber fight. He said he'd have another talk with her like the one about her flirting. (He didn't use flirting)

Thanks Vard. Another situation to suggest what I'm saying is when Elayne gets carried away by the BA. They don't seem to be Linked (for the sheer amount of different weaves, as well as the fact that Asne used the BF-rod at the same time someone else was throwing fireballs), and yet Elayne is Shielded. This isn't absolute -- it's possible two of them Linked and Shielded Elayne while the others dealt with the army -- but it remains highly suggestive.

Yep. They weren't linked. There are 0 examples of someone being linked and able to channel if they're not controlling the circle, and every person who speaks of it says they can't. Hell even the forsaken mention it, when Demandred tells someone to link with him and he notes she won't because she'd be helpless cause only he could channel then.

Yoni is correct about linking. There are many examples, especially when Ny and Elayne learn about linking. It forms one single weave ,one channeler cannot tie off part of a linked weave, because when linked only one person can channel. That part is not up for debate. It's fact, in the book.

Now back to the shields, Recall how the "channeling conduit" is described. The same as the river of Sadiar, impossibly narrow yet vastly endless (Or some such drivel), in other words, it's difficult to discern the size of it. Those individual "soft points" he was feeling were individual shields. If each point was a piece of a shield, like pieces of a pizza, he would only need to shatter one to be able to channel again, since something would flow through it.

I believe it's just a quirky nature of channeling, the conduit doesn't have a size to it, persay, so when you shield someone and cut them off, the shield because as vast as the conduit, multiple shields meet at some point in that endless vastness, and yet each completely shut off the flow.

You kinda have to look beyond the pipe everyone is picturing in their minds. It's not exactly like that. It's not 3 dimensional.

That's about as good as I can explain it in text, the soft points meeting was how Rand's mind rationalized it.

Huh, I always interpreted the shielding as 6 Aes sedai linked to form the shield. Am I incorrect? Is the shielding at the end of LoC really 6 individual shields woven together?

Definitely six separate Shields. They've tied them off at different times, each doing so only when her abilities were deemed necessary to fend of the Shaido. Otherwise there couldn't have been both hard and soft dots there at the same time.

 

So, then, the strength of the shields must stack upon one another? That is to say, the strength of the shield upon Rand must have been a sum of each of the individual shields. What would function would linking to form shield serve, as done in ToM?

I think they're all seperate shields, but since you can't break thru all at once it lends extra strength. When you initally shield, it would be easier to use a linked shield, it'll break thru, but once he's shielded, 6 separate shields are stronger than 1 linked shield with 6 sisters, since he'd have to break thru all 6, giving them time to reshield him.

If that makes sense.

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

 

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

 

Actually the more likely reason was not the amount of Power drawn (far more saidin was used than saidar [an ant/mole hill next to a mountain]), or the strength of the channeler who used it (Nynaeve is cited as having sufficient strength, and the point you're referencing (Moghedien's comment) about the Choedan Kal being used at great strength for a long period of time is just as applicable to the male one--more so, because more Power was used). The most likely reason was the USE to which saidar was put.

 

Specifically, in the Cleansing Rand used saidar to wring the Taint from saidin--as if saidin were a wet towel, the Taint were the water, and saidar were the hands that wrung it. Of course it's actually more complex than that, and far worse--saidin and saidar cannot mix and Rand used that concept to generate the force that compressed the Taint out of saidin--and saidar was the side of the Power he used to generate that force.

 

Hence, saidar was the stressor, whilst saidin was largely passive--the effects on it being the result of the application of force upon it by saidar. And, as a result, though more saidin was used, it was saidar that expended the effort, and thus the saidar Choedan Kal that felt the strain of it (and like you might snap a tendon in your hand if you wrung a towel too forcefully, so too did the Choedan Kal break)

Damn Luck beat me too it. I was about to say, I really doubt it was a time thing, I mean, who knows how long it would take to destroy the Armies of the Shadow and seal the boar, it had to be the taint itself or something of the sort.

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

 

Touche ya got me.

 

Interesting!

Hahaha! I'm sure you've gotten me already. Yeah, what's more interesting is that somewhere either in that book or the one previous, the Forsaken are at a meeting and someone says that Choeden Kal is indestructible - but maybe they meant the actual sarangreal and not the terangreal keys.

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

Touche ya got me.

Interesting!

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

Oh well.

Re-reading tPoD. When Rand rains fire and lightning on his own troops (and kills Adley) using Callandor, do we know definitively if this is due to Saidin being "alive" following the use of the Bowl of the Winds or is it due to the flaw in Callandor?

 

combination of both, imo. We saw where another Asha'man lost control of his weave because of how "alive" saidin is. But there is no doubt that the magnification of the taint was on display, as Rand is out of control until Bashere breaks through.

A better question is, why did using the bowl cause Sadain to come alive? Was that ever explained?

What did the dice no longer spinning in mats head symbolise?

He wasn't in danger at that point.

The problem is, if villains acted competantly or didnt have a major character flaw, they would in general be unbeatable.

 

The reason for this is, for a good character to be heroic they have to be up against the odds, fighting against superior forces or vastly outnumbered. If the villain didnt do something stupid to screw it up, they'd never win and a lot of people wouldnt enjoy the story.

 

Myself i've always prefered characters which embody both darkness and light, even evil characters have to have reasons for what they do, and they must have good chracteristics to an extent, even if its just something as silly as a fondness for white fluffy cats. Purely evil characters are one dimensional and poorly written.

 

 

Also as for WoT Villains, bear in mind that most of them were corrupted due to their stupidity/jealousy/greed/hate. They were hardly the cream of the crop, and the darkside as a whole scheme against each other 10x more than against the light.

Pretty much exactly what I said. In a fair battle, power wise, all things equal, Evil would win every time unless they do something really stupid, or get really unlucky. The whole willing to do whatever it takes to win kinda gives you a huge edge.

I haven't really gotten into GRRM yet, but you're telling me the good guys get their asses handed to them over and over? Or they are willing to do what it takes, regardless of morals, to beat evil? Because otherwise they're lucky as hell.

That's not a completely valid comparison, because we've actually seen very little of GRRM's true villains. It's his protagonists that have been slaying each other up until now.

 

And, as long as we're talking about the Forsaken, one of the most effective among them has been... wait for it... Mesaana. You simply don't see her driving hand behind the events in question until the very end.

True, but she too falls prey to her own incompetence.

So... no intelligent opposition... whatsoever...? I'm just gonna have to put up with books upon books of the main characters being awesome? :(

Most of what you see are the main characters having to deal with dumbasses and people who won't fall in line. Sammael does some good damage when Rand and the Aiel fight the Shaido at Cairhien. But, yeah, the good guys get away with plenty.

 

(rubs temples stressfully)

 

Didn't we have this discussion last week? Super VIllians are always idiots! That's life. Name a Super Villian in a series, or life, and I'll show you how dumb he/she was.

 

There has to be some exceptions, I really hate speaking in definites, but I can't think of any. :(

 

Well, I can't accept that, Vard. You ALSO said that they succesfully manage to threaten the main cast. My LIFE is based around villains. They are what I care about. They are what I enjoy. I... I... grrrrr

Lol. I feel your pain good sir! It kills me how villians are cast into the foolish bumbling idiot roll! Villians have feelings too! They need to win occasionally. You'd think if they were so idiotic they would have been stopped before they reached the supervillian level, alas they aren't.

So... no intelligent opposition... whatsoever...? I'm just gonna have to put up with books upon books of the main characters being awesome? :(

Most of what you see are the main characters having to deal with dumbasses and people who won't fall in line. Sammael does some good damage when Rand and the Aiel fight the Shaido at Cairhien. But, yeah, the good guys get away with plenty.

 

(rubs temples stressfully)

Didn't we have this discussion last week? Super VIllians are always idiots! That's life. Name a Super Villian in a series, or life, and I'll show you how dumb he/she was.

There has to be some exceptions, I really hate speaking in definites, but I can't think of any. :(

I guess I'm just bitter that Bel'al is specificallysaid to be intelligent and cunning yet we don't really see it in action. It's a phenomenon called an informed ability. He took control of Tear, sure, but all of the Forsaken appear quite capable of attaining high positions in cities. I thought he specifically stood out above the rest. Guess I was wrong.

 

His ultimate strategy of "Getting Callandor by giving it to Rand then beating him and taking it from him" seemed a bit ill thought out for a supposedly cunning schemer

He spread those rumors. He also spread about that he was the hotness, and ladies loved him.

Can you blame him? I mean, if you were evil and used compulsion freely, you wouldn't make a Rep for yourself? Pshhh I would.

Btw, when Ba'al was cornered by Rand, he cried out for the Dark One to help him. A ball of darkness then fell into his hands and Ba'al suddenly looked triumphant.

 

... then Rand stabs him.

 

Was there a purpose to that ball of darkness? Why include mention of it if he didn't do anything with it?

That was Balz (Ishy) not Be'lal. And IDK to be honest he just calls for aid, not necessarily to the DO. . Maybe TP?

... are we thinking about the same character?

Crap. No. I see we aren't, lol reading comprehension fail on my part. Be'Al wanted Callandor, Balz is just crazy.

Ba'alzamon wanted Callandor? But he started firing lightning at Rand BEFORE Rand even made a move for Callandor IIRC

Cause he's dumb! He was trying to scare him into taking it. He missed Rand on purpose. He wasn't patient enough to wait in the shadows, he wanted to make sure Rand would grab it.

It's all a little confusing it you look too deep into it. Be'al assumed (for some reason) that Rand wouldn't grab the sword (When Rand paused) so he went to scare him into taking it by making him think he had no choice. Thus the fake attack. I suppose we're supposed to think Be'Al was worried about the AIel taking the stone or something and thus running out of time? IDK.

Wait, why did Ba'alzamon NEED Calandor out of it's enclosure? I thought he just wanted Rand dead?

Only Rand's hand could remove Callandor. It's the way the weave was set up. So he wanted it, and thus needed Rand to remove it first before he killed him.