I'm debating in my head whether its Faile or Nynaeve... definitely one of those two, though. Got to love a fiery one ;)

EDIT: After lengthy personal debate, I voted Faile ^^

 

I totally agree. I have always liked Faile, especially since she provides the impetus for one of the few genuinely emotional scenes in WOT, when she gets Perrin to grieve for his dead family. Also, the love between Faile and Perrin is a great deal more believable than the romances between Rand and his somewhat fabricated three "wives" (to say nothing of Mat and Tuon!). The Perrin-rescuing-Faile-from-Shaido plot goes on WAY too long, but that is the only complaint I have about Faile's presence in the books.

Yeah, I agree about the Shaido plotline, but I find that Perrin's scenes in that tend to drag more than Faile's- possibly because there's more of them, or possibly because his thoughts are all quite similar in them.

Faile and Elayne. Two totally unneccessary characters.

 

Yeah because saving the world by righting the weather counts for nothing?

 

Totally agreed on Faile though...

Aside from riding to gather reinforcements for the Two Rivers, in doing so saving many lives, including, most probably, one of the three ta'veren on whom the continued future of the world may depend :P And, you know, having the political and practical knowledge to do much of the management of Perrin's forces and helping him act as a leader when he seems determined not to. Yep. Faile does nothing :P

OK, in case that came across as a little snappy, not intended, I just haven't let out the Faile love for a while ;) I wouldn't label Faile as "necessary" in a sense- her role COULD have been played by another. But then, the same's true of many other characters in the book. Faile works well with Perrin because they complement each other, at least in terms of their skill sets. He is strong, cautious, he wants, or believes he wants, a simple life. Faile is political, she has knowledge of how to manage a large force of people on the move, and how to deal with other politicians- bear in mind that whilst we see Rand and Mat accomplishing a lot, not only by their ta'veren natures- Mat has his luck, Rand has his memories, and the knowledge by the world that he is the Dragon Reborn- when dealing with powerful leaders and other authority figures with much more experience behind them. Perrin, on the other hand, relies a lot on Faile in these matters- in ToM, for example, he lets Faile take the lead in negotiations with Elayne, because it is her strength, not his. Faile is very much a supporting character in a literal sense of the word- she's almost tailor made in her skills to be a good team with Perrin- and when he doesn't have her, he goes a little crazy trying to get her back- he allies with the Seanchan, he'd probably have allied with the Dark One himself. That's my thoughts on why Faile works for the plot, at least in part. I enjoy her as a character in her own right, though I recognise that most people disagree ;P

I agree that Elayne puts herself at risk a lot in the series, often unnecessarily, because she believes that she is safe because of Min's viewing. Often, she only remains safe because others rescue her, and this often costs lives, something she seems to fail to consider, which is definitely a failing on her part, I think, and one that has become more apparent the later in the series we get. She knows that she commands a kingdom now, and sometimes people have to die for her, but she doesn't seem to have quite moved beyond that to realising that this is even more of a reason not to put herself at unnecessary risk.

In a way, I think this might be left over from her time in the WT, and as AS. Bearing in mind, for the first however-many books (well, from Book 2 onward), most of what Elayne does is done as a novice/ Accepted/ AS- she passes her Accepted test, hunts for Black Ajah, she helps rescue Egwene from Falme, she takes part in obtaining and using the Bowl of Winds. In the Tower, she is almost expected to put herself in dangerous situations- what would happen, for example, if she'd died in the Accepted test? Surely going through that is irresponsible. As people have pointed out, Siuan is hardly averse to having Elayne help hunt the Black Ajah. She is one of the most powerful AS, she is expected to put her talents to good use, and help the world. I can't help feeling that if she'd known about Egwene and Nynaeve going to hunt the Black Ajah and hadn't accompanied them because it would be irresponsible, then a lot of people would be criticising her for letting her friends go off into obvious danger when she- another powerful channeler- could have helped them but chose not to. Basically, I wonder if she hasn't quite made the transition from "Novice/ Accepted/ AS who happens to be the Daughter Heir" which is how she acted in the first 2/3 of the series, to "Queen of Andor who just happens to be AS", which is what she really needs to do to be an effective ruler.

She proves she is willing to do chores- she does a lot of the cooking and sewing for Nynaeve and Egwene on their travels. She doesn't expect special treatment from them- when she feels Nynaeve is being unnecessarily bossy in TDR, she simply holds up her ring to remind Nyn that they're both Accepted, and carries on as normal, other than this, she accepts Nynaeve's leadership role over the group, and often agrees with her - often enough that it annoys Egwene, who then admits to herself that its only when Nynaeve is right. She wants Nynaeve to be her AS advisor, she supports Egwene as Amyrlin happily. Neither of them always agree with her. She suffers from the "Men are woolheads" school of thought, but many of the WoT women do.

As for the relations between Andor and the WT- I doubt very much Elaida on her own would have been able to stop Rahvin, even had Morgase still been in contact with the WT, she was under Compulsion, Rahvin would likely have gained Andor anyway, and I imagine he would have found some way of splitting her from the WT if he thought it was a risk. Similarly, had Elaida been in Andor rather than in the WT, Mesaana was already established there, doubtless she, Alviarin and co. would have found another sister dissatisfied with Siuan's secrecy and plotting (please remember, the Tower split in half over this, plenty of sisters clearly agreed with the sentiment), and had them do as Elaida did.

So, yeah, I agree Elayne has many faults, and they have become more pronounced as the series goes on. She is stubborn, and doesn't always act as the ruler of a nation should responsibly act. But I don't think she's the immature, spoiled, self important fool that a lot of people seem to think of her as. Just my opinion, but she's far from my least favourite character.

Kind of gone off topic again here, I guess...

OK, here's one thing that annoys me slightly, though its more about a character than the books themselves. Berelain initially goes after Rand, is turned down, and sets her sights on Perrin, who also isn't interested. Now, she admits she's not in love with him, any feelings at all between them seem to be respect, and possibly friendship at a push, brought on after they have travelled together with Perrin's army. The only explanation that we're given is that she seeks a strong ally for Mayene, and yet she pursues Perrin all the way until Book 13 of the series, when she meets Galad. She knows Perrin is married, that he is in love with Faile, and if Berelain has even the slightest chance of getting him, its going to take a lot of time. So why does she not leave Perrin aside and try and find another suitable alliance as soon as she is turned away, as she does with Rand? She spends months chasing after something that she knows is probably hopeless, when, if she really wants to make an alliance through marriage, she could be approaching other rulers. It just seems to give off waves of "Well, I don't really like Faile, and I DEFINITELY don't like being turned down this often, so I want to win this game", rather than "My nation needs an ally and marriage is the easiest option!"

Tower Law in theory gives the Amyrlin almost unlimited power over the Aes Sedai and openly defying her orders is considered treason. Though in practice the situation is much different and the custom gives the Aes Sedai plenty of ways to evade following the orders of the Amyrlin. And a monarch Aes Sedai would be considered an unique case probably - Elayne at least thinks so.

PoD, Ch. 20

 

Necessary and right, though; when she sat on the Lion Throne, she would still be Aes Sedai, and subject to the laws and rules and customs of Aes Sedai. Not for Andor — she would not give her land to the White Tower — but for herself. "

OK, I'm about to be a bit off-topic, but I really don't see how Andor isn't, in some way, subject to the White Tower if their Queen is. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure there was at least one mention where either Morgase or Gareth Bryne, or both, had some sort of plan that the WT disagreed with, and Elaida and Siuan ended up half ordering them out of it- I could be remembering wrong, someone please enlighten me if they have any idea what I'm talking about XD But either way, Morgase wasn't even part of the Tower at this point. If Elayne sees a course of action that will benefit Andor, but harm/ inconvenience/ whatever, the White Tower, then surely if she goes ahead and does it anyway, especially if Egwene/ whoever is Amyrlin at that point, tells her to do otherwise, then she is breaking a law/ rule/ custom of Aes Sedai, and if she doesn't follow the course of action, she will be putting the White Tower ahead of Andor, and thus, in a way, making Andor subject to the rule of the White Tower. Now, don't get me wrong, it may well be that such a situation never arises, and it may well be that the Amyrlin will avoid putting Elayne in any such awkward position due to not wanting to lose a very powerful AS from the ranks.

Mind you, that's more a beef with the Andoran policy of the Daughter-Heir training in the White Tower, as this kind of situation has always been a possibility if the girl had enough power and dedication to rise to the rank of AS. But I really think that perhaps Elayne needs to consider this kind of situation, as it seems simplistic to think that she can let herself be subject to Aes Sedai laws but be able to keep her country free of them. Especially since, as we have been discussing in this very thread, the buck stops with the ruler of a country, if Andor does anything against the interests of the White Tower, and Elayne is not putting a stop to it, then she is, in some way, skirting around the law or customs of the AS. Which apparently she doesn't intend to do...

Also, having quite enjoyed Elayne in earlier books, it would be nice to see her having to face this issue and make a decision between her country and the White Tower in AMoL, as I've found her quite dull in the last few books.

No- I'm sure Egwene wanted Elayne to bring the majority of her armies to the FoM meeting, given what she was telling other rulers, and I'm sure as Elayne is an AS, and Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat, Elayne will probably have done just that, however, as Queen of both Andor and Cairhien, it is her duty to look out for her people, first and foremost, and to choose where to deploy her forces. Other monarchs have obviously refused Egwene, otherwise she wouldn't be trying to persuade them. We don't even know that Elayne has done so. It may be that Elayne decides that being a ruler and an Aes Sedai is a conflict of interests, and chooses to retire from the White Tower as a result of this attack. Who knows?

I'm not saying that its a great idea for Egwene to tell all the rulers to bring all their armies to persuade Rand, when half of them have Seanchan on their doorstep, and the Borderlands are being overrun with Trollocs. She certainly has no right to think about removing legitimate rulers simply because they disagree with her. But it is up to those rulers to deal with their countries, in this case, Elayne.

Hmmm... well, there are characters I dislike, but that's going to be the case in any book. As far as what I think could be improved, I think the relationships could definitely have been improved upon. People seem to fall wildly in love almost out of nowhere, all major characters end up being paired off, and, as people have mentioned, there's very little in the way of platonic relationships between males and females in the series. Mat- Birgitte and Nynaeve- Rand are the only two that jump to mind. That said, those two friendships, I do enjoy very much. More so than a lot of the same- gender friendships. Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne were supposedly a friendship group, at least Egwene calls Elayne and Nynaeve her friends, but by the gods, most of the time they don't seem to like each other.

So yes, I think the friendships/ romances between characters aren't always well written or believable, though there are many, like the two aforementioned friendships, and the Perrin/ Faile relationship (yes, really :P) that I love and think were done well.

I find Perrin's "Anything for Faile, and the world can go to hell before I let her come to harm!" attitude grating at times, too. But, sorry, the blame lies on Perrin's shoulders for that. He's very in love with Faile, that's how he sees her. I imagine he would have the same attitude had he fallen in love with any other woman in the series- Berelain, Alliandre, Egwene, Nynaeve, anyone. Its simply how he is. Its not necessarily a good thing, and he does feel bad about it afterwards, as I recall, but I don't blame Faile for it.

I think Perrin and Faile are possibly the "closest" relationship in the series, which might explain Perrin's very strong attachment to, and determination when it comes to his wife. Not to imply that the other characters love each other less, but the two of them have been married since Book 4, spent time together in the Two Rivers, have been together for a lot of the time since then, and work very closely together. There is Faile's capture, of course, by the Shaido, and various other points at which they are separated, but apart from the Shaido arc, they're together for the majority of the time, across a large part of the series. Its not so surprising that Perrin felt lost without her.

Inspired by the "Praise for Egwene" thread:

OK, so Faile is one of my favourite characters, she also seems to be one of the least popular major characters of the series. So, I thought those of us that do like her can share why we love her, and even those who aren't so keen could mention some redeeming features- if she has any in their eyes.

So, for me, just off the top of my head...

I like her bravery. Yes, early on, I think a lot of her behaviour was quite blustering, she wanted to be a hero, and adventurer, rather than live the political life her family was set up for. But she's definitely shown guts throughout the series. She keeps her head, by and large, during her capture by the Aiel. She gathers an army to take back to the battle of Emond's Field, and rides at their head, when she could have done as Perrin asked and rode further for help, saving herself, and probably returning too late.

I like her approach to relationships. I mean, hers and Perrin's relationship isn't ideal, I would agree that relationships are not a strong point of the Wheel of Time, but I like that she and Perrin love each other. I like that she wants a man who stands up to her. I like that she doesn't want someone she can walk all over. Admittedly, her ways of going about it aren't the best, but she's young, she's Saldaean, and they do like to fight out their issues, and she is still living in a world where sexism towards men is fairly commonplace. I guess different people will see things differently, such is the joy of variety, but to my eyes, that's how I read it. I mean, what's the fun of being powerful, fiery and strong willed if your partner's just going to roll over and say "Yes dear" to everything you say? :P

I like that she's realistic in her talents. She is very, very good at politics, having trained for it her entire life. And yet, she admits that Berelain is her superior in that, much as she dislikes it. I like that she is capable- Perrin does spend a lot of time denying that he's a Lord, wanting out, and Faile, in the meantime, is seeing to the day to day running of things, and getting shit done. And, of course, she is ruthless where Perrin isn't- see Masema for details :P Another scene where I was nodding to myself and smiling.

And finally, back to the battle of Emond's Field, I seem to recall that scene where Faile and the army ride in to be one of the few scenes that I got up to, read, put the book down, stood up and said "Shit yeah!" before I continued reading- always good!

So, yeah- I know there are at least a couple of other Faile fans out there, come share ^^

I vary wildly between really loathing Cadsuane, and finding her kind of cool. She's a tricky one to place.

On the one hand, she doesn't seem to have the Aes Sedai focus of "The Tower must be respected and powerful above all and what's good for the Tower is good for the world!" She genuinely seems to be working for the good of the world- as Rand says, she does what she does because she wants Rand to fight the Last Battle, and she wants him not to destroy the world in the meantime. She doesn't seem to believe that the Tower as an organisation knows what is best for Rand. Of course, she is arrogant in the sense that she believes that SHE knows what is best for Rand, and that SHE should be respected... but unlike certain other AS, she has been around for hundreds of years, and become a legend amongst AS- in a lot of cases, she really does know what she is talking about, and is right irritatingly often.

The problem is, she is a bully, and she is hugely proud. If someone doesn't show her respect and, in many cases, deference, then she's quite happy to manipulate, scold, humiliate and bully them until they do. In some cases, this can be a good thing- being someone who isn't bowing and scraping to Rand, and telling him some harsh truths when neccessary, her figuring out how to deal with Semirhage, etc. In some cases- her treatment of Tam when he grows angry with her, her refusal to apologise after the incident with the a'dam, etc- it really, really isn't. She is quite willing how to teach other people- Nynaeve, etc.- to swallow their pride when circumstance (or SHE) demands it, but it seems like, in her opinion, she's gone through life, she's done a lot, she's past the point where she's going to swallow her pride for someone else- and the fact is, it is neccessary for everyone, in day to day life, to swallow their pride sometimes, but especially when dealing with someone as volatile as Rand has been up to this point.

I think at the end of the day, she is working with Rand for the right reasons. Some of her advice is very helpful, and even some of her actions may have helped Rand, but her attitude in general towards him and pretty much everyone else is terrible, she IS a bully, and she has a bucketload of the AS arrogance. I can't wait for her to meet the Tower AS- those she hasn't already met at least. She is both terribly frustrating and extremely entertaining to read. She's unflappable and often sarcastic, she is quite real, as a character- the grandma who has been there, done that, seen it all, and, as a consequence, thinks she knows it all, and makes sure everyone else knows her opinion... and turns out to be right frustratingly often. There's a few things I want to see happen with Cadsuane for her to make the progression to a great character in the last book.

- I want to see her in battle. This is an extremely powerful AS, one who has faced down a Forsaken, albeit shielded, from the Ajah that's supposed purpose is to prepare for and fight the Last Battle.

- I want to see her speak- to the other AS, perhaps, or to some nations, or perhaps all of them- in support of Rand, at some point. They are working together, now, Rand has lost the hardness that she wanted him rid of. It would be nice to see them working together rather than fighting each other.

- I do NOT, NOT want her dumbed down so that another character can look good. She's an unlikeable character, yes, and she makes mistakes, and I would be quite happy to see her called on them at some point, but do not dumb her down to do it.

So, yeah... Cadsuane has the potential to be awesome. In some ways she is. And yet, half the time I still want to slap her :P She is a puzzling character.

"What difference?"

He smiled. "This time I was raised better."

Min found herself smiling as well.

"You know me, Min. Well, I promise you, I feel more like myself now that I have in months. I feel more like myself than I ever did as Lews Therin, if that makes any kind of sense. It's because of Tam, because of the people around me. You, Perrin, Nynaeve, Mat, Aviendha, Elayne, Moiraine..."

 

Egwene is noticeably absent in the people Rand lists. It cannot be because of proximity, Moiraine has been gone a long time and Rand has not had contact with Mat, Perrin and Elayne for nearly as long, Even Aviendha has not been in contact with Rand much since she went with Mat to Salidar, but still he lists all of them as a good influence on him save Egwene.

To be fair, though he hasn't seen Elayne and Aviendha in a long time, he is apparently in love with them, and is linked to them by the Warder bond, so you could argue they are still influencing each other, despite not seeing each other. Nynaeve was the only Aes Sedai Rand allowed near him during TGS, and he knows that she cares for him and wants him to survive. And Perrin and Mat were his best friends growing up.

That said, I agree, I don't think they are friends anymore, if they ever were friends in the strictest sense. A lot of their earlier interactions seemed based on the idea that they had been betrothed, and one day they would be married, when they realise that they aren't actually in love and "break it off", so to speak, they don't seem to have a lot to do with each other. I don't think they hate each other, far from it, I'd say they're probably closer than they are to the "rest of the Emond's Field people", in a sense, as they've been through more together. I'm still not sure whether they will end up coming to blows- verbal or otherwise- at the Fields of Merrilor, however. I think their relationship has become more like rival colleagues than anything. Powerful forces for the light, with the same overall aim, but they don't agree on how to get there.

I think from Rand's part- he doesn't go to Egwene because she is Egwene, his childhood sweetheart, and friend from his hometown. He goes to her because she is the Amyrlin Seat, powerful politician, and leader of one of the largest groups of female channelers in the Westlands. I suspect he is tricking her into arriving at the fields, either because he suspects his ta'veren nature will force the White Tower and their associated forces to his side, or because he wants an excuse to bring all the leaders together for some other purpose. Either way, he doesn't trust her to tell her the whole of his plans, if I'm correct. In addition, when he asks Nynaeve to link with him, because he will need two female channelers to link with, that he trusts implicitly, he mentions Avi and Elayne, but doesn't mention Egwene, even in passing. Now, you might argue there are plenty of reasons for this, but bear in mind, a) Rand wants female and male channelers working together, and what better way to symbolise that than sealing/destroying the Dark One alongside the most powerful and iconic (politically speaking) Aes Sedai, the Amyrlin Seat herself? b) Egwene is Elayne's equal in power, and as such is, behind Nynaeve, one of the most powerful female channelers of the age, and c) Aside from Nynaeve, Egwene is the female channeler who has known Rand well since long before he manifested his powers. And yet, he never once mentions her as someone he trusts.

As far as Egwene's POV goes, she is the Amyrlin Seat, and seems to have bought into the AS way of thought pretty thoroughly- in her mind, Rand needs to be controlled/ guided by the Tower. Additionally, as far as she knows, he is a madman. And, of course, he has brought male channelers together, and allowed them to bond AS, which seems to be taken as a great insult to AS as a whole. Last but not least, he is a man, and Egwene seems to be one of the more sexist characters in the series, I don't think she believes Rand is capable of fulfilling his destiny alone- even when Nynaeve sees the benefits of Rand's plan, Egwene believes its simply due to Rand's ta'veren nature. She doesn't dislike Rand, but as BS has said, Egwene sees goals rather than people, I imagine she thinks Rand will die in the Last Battle, and as such, she sets aside the fact that they were once close, to do what she feels needs to be done. I also think that, since Egwene is a very typical AS, in the sense that AS and the White Tower come first for her, Rand's actions- setting up the Black Tower, letting them bond AS, forcing AS to swear oaths to him, probably comes across as more hostile towards the WT than they were intended.

Either way, whether you like or dislike either character, I don't think they hate each other, but I don't think either of them trust the other, for different reasons. I don't think Egwene had such an impact on him as a person as he was growing up, and I don't think she's had much impact on him as a person over the series. They aren't friends. They are allies of the Light, they will, in all probability, both play important parts in the Last Battle, but assuming they both survive it, I don't see them being friends. I don't even see them being overly sad if the other dies in the Last Battle, not since Rand's List o' Women ceased to be.

This was something that really annoyed me as I was reading through the books the first time round. Saying that, I think I do have to excuse it in part, as Rand was growing more and more insane at the time...

On the one hand, I get that not wanting to hurt women is a "Two Rivers thing", judging by Mat and Perrin, as well as Rand. I also get that it was Rand's way of clinging to his humanity- women are less involved in the military in the Westlands (though, of course, there are many exceptions), and thus, less likely to die in combat, so in a way, its far easier to mourn just the women than everyone he sees die. In a way, of course, it seems to make him worse, because of course, people dying due to the Dragon Reborn is inevitable, there will always be women dying for his cause, or because of his cause. And by refusing to harm female Forsaken at first, plenty of women were probably killed or tortured at their hands. So, whilst I think it was his way to cling to his humanity, it just made his mental state worse, until he snaps in tGS, then realises he needs to substantially change his outlook.

On the other hand, it still kind of irritates me. I mean, I can understand mourning the women who've died senselessly- but surely everyone who dies senselessly should be mourned. And yes, mourn your fallen comrades, but only the women, again? It annoys me that Sulin (I believe thats the right name) had to point out so harshly that the Maidens want to fight, they can fight, and they shouldn't be mourned more than others. I mean, they're a trained warrior society, some of the most effective in the world. Don't hold them back from the fights, you fool! And, of course, the whole "not wanting to kill women even when they kill me". Stupid... In the end (and I'm going to phrase this horribly simplistically now, so bear with me), all of those who weren't actively involved in the battle, who died because of bubbles of evil, bad luck, etc.- they were all tragic deaths, all victims of something beyond their control. All those who were killed after going into battle knew that they might die- in Moiraine's case, perhaps worse- but they took that risk, they made that sacrifice willingly. I could understand more if Rand mourned the people who died without being directly involved in the battles. To do otherwise does give off an air of "Oh, well, the men made brave sacrifices, but the women were poor helpless victims who aren't at all responsible for the sacrifices they made". Which does seem to be kind of how he thinks of women, remembering when he and Min had sex, and Min was angry with him for being so apologetic about it, wondering if he really thought she was too weak and stupid not to tell him if she didn't want him.

So, on balance, I can understand the viewpoint- I get that Two Rivers men seem to have it, I get that Rand's humanity is slipping away and he's trying to keep a grip on it any way he can, I get that he does eventually realise this is not the way to go (which is around the time I stopped wanting to slap Rand upside the head whenever I read him), but my instinctive reaction when I read it is one of intense irritation.

I really like Faile XD I was surprised there was so much dislike for her, TBH, but each to their own.

Personally, I like her partially because she has flaws, and it seems like these are intentionally written to be obvious. Not wanting to bring other characters into this, but, for example, I find Egwene to be vexing, I think she acts arrogantly and pig-headedly on several occasions, but I always got the feeling that wasn't how she was supposed to come across. I realise, of course, that this is a subjective thing, some people probably think Egwene's great, just as some people seem to really dislike Faile. Variety's a wonderful thing.

But anyway, as I was saying: When we meet Faile in the earlier books, she's all bluster and arrogance, she's snappy and somewhat overbearing- she's written that way, and that's how she comes off, frequently making herself look daft infront of the characters for her behaviour. She's fierce, and jealous. And yet, she softens somewhat, and proves to be extremely beneficial to Perrin. But she's not made into Superwoman, again, like some characters of the series. She can handle herself in a fight, but she's not a great warrior. She advises Perrin in his new position, she has a commanding personality, and a deep knowledge of how to play politics, which is realistic from her background as a noblewoman. She's pragmatic- she loves Perrin, but she'll do what she has to to escape from the Shaido. She can be ruthless where Perrin isn't. She hates Berelain, but knows she's the best one to think of a way to get rid of the rumours surrounding her and Perrin.

And whilst I agree that her rivalry with Berelain has gone on a long time, I place a lot of that on Berelain's shoulders- she has been pursuing Perrin for a long time, it's unlikely any wife is going to sit back and go "Well, you're trying to steal my husband away from me while I'm right here (or being held captive, for some of the time), why would I have any reason to not be polite and friendly?!" And after Berelain gave up, in the 13th book, its not really the kind of thing that turns you into friends.

Lastly, I agree that the way she treats Perrin in the early books is far from ideal. But at least she actually WANTS him to stand up to her, and argue with her, which, given that a lot of the female characters exhibit a "You're a man, you're stupid to question me", I'd say is a point in her favour.

As for Perrin- I like him. Him and Faile have an "Opposites Attract" thing between them. Again, he has his flaws, in his "Only Faile matters" stance, for example, but at least the next book has him tackling his guilt over that issue.