Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

True Source Creator

Member
  • Content Count

    278
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by True Source Creator

  1. Just finished today. 

     

    What a book! What a series!

     

    First up, the deaths.

     

    -Siuan (didn't think she was going to die, but a fitting death)

    -Bryne (see above)

    -Gawyn (YES! Demandred is the first Forsaken to kill off a main character. About flippin' time)

    -Galad (oh wait, no he didn't die...thought he did. Kinda wished he had)

    -Bela (WTF! NOOOOOOOOO!)

    -Rhuarc (more surprised he was Compulsed than anything)

    -Romanda/Lelaine (fitting they both died on the same page)

    -Birgitte (a bit shocking)

    -Egwene (biggest surprise death IMO. I rather liked her so it was sudden an unexpected)

     

    I'm sure I'm missing a few of the good guys, but the fates of the bad guys and my reactions:

     

    -Demandred (never imagined Lan would kill him. Thought it was going to be Mat)

    -Graendal/Hesalam (liked how the DO just turned her into some ugly witch. Liked even more how her own Compulsion turned against her. A fitting end for her)

    -Lanfear (the only Forsaken I was genuinely sad to see die. For a while, I was really hoping she was going to help the good guys out. In the final scene with her, despite obvious ploys toward Perrin, I thought something in her was going to help her help Perrin help Rand defeat Moridin, but instead she took a different path and I was upset that she didn't come back to the Light as had been hypothesized by many)

    -Moghedian (she got by well enough, but it was funny to see her collared in the end)

    -Taim (booted up to Chosen. Egwene raped him in that fight)

    -Padan Fain (a bit sudden. He was in the book for like one chapter. As if forgotten the whole time. And in the same chapter he gets killed off like 5 pages later)

    -Slayer (a bit redudant. I feel like he should have been finished in Towers of Midnight instead)

    -Alviarin and co (eh, a weird conclusion for them)

    -Mellar (lol, that "fake Birgitte" you killed was actually the real one...and she killed you right back)

    -Moridin (fitting I suppose that he should get death and Rand should live)

     

     

    Anyways, Perrin's chapter were the most interesting of the three ta'veren this time around. Mat and Rand were close at second and/or third (probably Mat's were better). Rand, despite being the protagonist, had most of his focus on the DO (obviously) and those were few and far between at times, so we got a lot closer to Perrin and Mat, and I liked that.

     

    Egwene was great, especially in her demise. An unexpected but powerful one.

     

    Demandred proved to be the most badass of the Forsaken after all. The only one to kill any main characters...and the Sharan plotline. Yes, just yes! He was the most capable of the Forsaken and that makes him the best one of them all.

     

    Did the Tinkers find their song after all? Don't really care for that plot regardless, but I'm thinking it had something to do with the Ogiers...maybe?

     

    Androl and Pevara taking center stage in the first third of the book. That was interesting and they're probably the best couple in the book. 

     

    Cadsuane being asked to Amyrlin...might work.

     

    Graendal accomplishing something (with taking out the Great Generals) was pretty satisfying.

     

    Lanfear played so many heartstrings. I didn't know what side she was on but I was hopeful that it was the Light, just so we could actually have a Forsaken come back to the Light

     

    Moiraine's return got the proper reaction it deserved

     

    Mat's and Tuon's storyline definitely developed nicely

     

    Moghedien being absent for the majority of the novel fit her character very well. Should have known it was her being the spy for the Seanchan.

     

    The Dark One seems less bad than imagined. It's like an essence that exists in everyone and in a way it is necessary for balance, like Rand saw when he decided killing Shai'tan would be worse than keeping him alive.

     

    Rand's ending is a bit bizarre but rather satisfying for him. A great way to end the series with the whole wind thing. But it was a ending. GREAT!

  2. Thom and Morgasse. We never saw it on screen, but I always picture it as a silent film montage, with Thom wooing Morgasse as her court bard and then a private love develops and Thom watches over Elayne and teaches her stories and plays with her while she's a young infant. And then the tragic turn to the story where Morgasse tosses Thom out on his butt, and the final image of Thom walking solemnly away from the Caemyln Palace on a cloudy day, looking just once over his shoulder at the guards outside the gates.

  3. When did you first know Dashiva was Osan'gar/Aginor? On my initial read through, I didn't really pay much attention to him, especially as the books he's featured in are mostly ACoS, TPoD, and WH, which kind of lost my interest a bit. But in WH we find out Dashiva is really Osan'gar, who was first seen in LoC before Dashiva came to Taim, or Taim to him?, to the Black Tower. And we learn in WH that Osan'gar was really Aginor reincarnated.

     

    But now on my second read through, I can see a lot of subtle hints that Dashiva was a Forsaken. In ACoS, we learn that he was pushing Flinn to learn things that most of the Asha'man didn't know how to do, and that's how Flinn (I think it was Flinn) was able to Heal Rand after the Shadar Logoth knife stab wound. Later we hear from Rand's PoV that Dashiva was holding almost as much of the One Power as Rand himself possibly could when Rand awakens from his wounds. And when, in the same chapter, Rand discusses going to attack Sammael that very day, Dashiva seems concerned and the only one unhappy with the plan.

     

    So how did you first know Dashiva was a Forsaken, and that he was Osan'gar?

  4. I'm on this one in my re-read too. I have about 250 pages left. Just finished the first chapter where Mat has moved into the Tarasin Palace and is trying to avoid Tylin's frivolous behavior.

     

    So far I really like the Mindtrap chapter. It gives us our first description of Moridin, but we receive a viewpoint from Moridin as a watcher who spies on Sammael and Graendal at the meeting with Sevanna and the Shaido a few chapters prior.

     

    And I like the scene where Nynaeve and Elayne are first taken to the Kin and Reanne Corley and everyone believes they're not Aes Sedai, and a few chapters later when Nynaeve and Elayne come back with the Aes Sedai from the Tarasin Palace and then the Kin realizes they were wrong and had abused real Aes Sedai.

  5.  

    Except Taim was already on the scene way before Asmodean was murdered.

     

    Also, I don't think the DO would bring back Asmodean, seeing as he was pretty much a betrayer.

    Well no, not necessarily (to the first part). The original Mazrim Taim may actually have been killed/removed and a proxy of Taim may have been created, really being Asmodean...but no, Asmodean is a goner for good, I'm certain of it. But doesn't mean this Taim is the original Taim.

  6. You know what would be awesome?

     

    The first time we see Demandred in AMoL, we get taken immediately back to that day at Shayol Ghul, in a flashback scene where the DO asks if Demandred would unleash balefire for him, then we see bits and pieces, through the italicized flashbacks that have been used sometimes in the books, of Demandred going here and there and everywhere and balefiring things the DO asks, some little snippits of him going to Shayol Ghul and asking if he's done well (hence the laughter), see what he's been up to.

     

    That would be great, but unlikely.

  7. As to where Demandred is: Roedran, king of Murandy, seems the best possibility.

    And the lamest.

     

    ...and it also doesn't explain why he did something in LoC that warranted the DO to laugh when Demandred inquires if he has done well on his visit to Shayol Ghul at the end of LoC.

     

    Laughing because Demandred has established himself as Roedran, king of Murandy? I think not.

  8. I still think Bela is the DO. The DO's prison is actually a horse's form. Don't ask me what the bore is? This is a family board.

     

    Has the DO's presense and Bela ever been "on screen" at the same time? Nope. Hmmmm.

    Very valid point.

     

     

    ...except obviously Narg is the DO.

  9. I know a lot of you joke about Bela being The Creator. That's great and all, but it's time you get serious for a moment.

     

    ...because it's no joke. I appreciate that there are some of you who realize this and are not joking, because it is so obvious. RJ has clearly shown us in the past that Bela is The Creator. Let's take a look.

     

    Example one: From Lord of Chaos Chapter 34

     

    Villages and towns appeared and vanished in a blur' date=' great cities - one she thought sure was Caemlyn, walls silvery white in the night - and once, in forested hills, the head and shoulders of a huge statue rearing out of the earth, a remnant of a land lost in history, appearing so suddenly at Bela's side with a weathered grimace that Egwene nearly screamed, only it was gone before she could.[/quote']

     

    Now do you see what I see?

     

    It's so obvious that RJ meant this as a subtle hint, but when you look at the wording here, we see some clues that Bela is The Creator. Look:

     

    Villages and towns appeared and vanished in a blur' date=' great cities - one she thought sure was Caemlyn, walls silvery white in the night - and once, in forested hills, the head and shoulders of a huge statue rearing out of the earth, a remnant of a land lost in history, appearing so suddenly at Bela's side with a weathered grimace that Egwene nearly screamed, only it was gone before she could.

     

    Is it a coincidence that you can find the word "Creator" spelled in the same sentence as Bela's name, probably multiple times (but that one there stood out the most obvious to me)? I think not.

     

    And obviously Bela's appearance by the statue is a sign that Bela is The Creator, because as we can see, Egwene screams at the sight of it, but Bela is not deterred in the slightest. Bela knew it was there, and only The Creator could have known that.

     

     

    Now brace yourselves. If you have your copy of LoC available, I would definitely recommend turning to Ch 34 and on the same page, you'll find this.

     

    Example 2:

     

    "You did run like the wind," [Egwene] murmured, hugging Bela a last time. "I wish I could take you with me." A useless fancy, of course. What was made in Tel'aran'rhiod could exist only there. This was not really Bela, after all; this was The Creator.

     

    I know, I was surprised too when I read that. You might have to re-read it a couple times before you see it, because it may look like, in your book, the next words after "after all." are "Even so, she felt a twinge of regret...", but if you're seeing that then you're just not looking hard enough at the fine print.

     

     

    Ok, neigh we are not finished yet. If that impressed you, then you better make sure you're sitting for this one (and honestly, who would be reading this forum standing up anyways?), because this is the most obvious example of RJ's subtlety concerning the true identity of Bela.

     

    Example 3: also from LoC Ch 34 (same paragraph)

     

    Even so, she felt a twinge of regret as she turned her back - she would not stop imagining Bela, let her exist as long as she could - and wove her shimmering certain of Spirit. I am the Creator. Head high, she stepped through, ready to face what came with her Aiel heart.

     

    Oh RJ you sly fox you. You see how that was put in there. I made it look larger than it appears in the text, because when you look at it in the book it's actually like size 2 font...but it's obviously not Egwene's thought because she's not The Creator, and the only other being there is Bela, who we could tell was amused by the fact that Egwene thought she didn't exist in TAR. Because Bela exists everywhere.

     

     

    So there you have it. There is no refuting this evidence.

  10. I think the scene where Bela turns out to be the Creator will be cut

    It hasn't been cut. In fact, if you've been reading the series, you'll know it's already been revealed. RJ just makes us rely on context clues rather than coming straight out and saying it. It's like Mat killing Couladin off-screen. Just as that was indirectly occurring, so too is Bela's role as the Creator indirectly mentioned.

  11. In an expansion of my thoughts on Demandred's activities in LoC (which can be seen in the "Where's Waldo...I mean Demandred" thread in the Structured Forum), I have a theory on how the Land of the Mad Men, which has been mentioned outside the books by RJ, may have actually had some play in the books too, and perhaps this could be Demandred's role in LoC (since I feel confident he must have done something during LoC, if off-screen) and could also ratify the "things to the south had Demandred written on them" line.

     

    Ok, so when Rand first goes to "the farm" to visit Taim, Taim has gathered a few dozen possible candidates and is training them. A few chapters (about 300 pages) later, Rand returns to "The Black Tower", and Taim has at least 100 men there with most being possible channelers. Then a couple hundred pages later (perhaps weeks? in the story), Taim shows up at Dumai's Wells with 200 or more Asha'man, doubling from just about 2 weeks prior.

     

    Where did all these male channelers come from?

     

    My theory: the Land of the Mad Men. It's never mentioned in the books, but RJ has mentioned it, and I'm thinking that at least through LoC and before Moridin shows up, Demandred was pulling strings on the BT and especially Taim, so Demandred probably guided Taim to the LotM or searched himself and brought recruits from there.

  12. I don't like Slayer. In fact, I didn't even really care for this whole "Slayer chase" in Tel'aran'rhiod in ToM, which coverred a good portion of Perrin's scenes in that book. He should have died already since they got in like a half dozen fights in that book alone, and it gets redundant. He's a droll character and lame villain, IMO.

  13. Honestly, I would definitely not recommend skipping the "minor Aes Sedai" scenes, or those from other minor characters. I find them usually (but not always) refreshing because they give us different perspectives and often reveal things not known to the reader from the perspectives of the main characters. In particular, those "minor character POVs" include some from the Forsaken, so we get a glimpse of their goings-on, and I like that.

  14. So I was thinking about it, and in the earlier books Ishamael, as Ba'alzamon, said he could have Rand much more easily if he were dead, because he claims the dead are his...he assuming the identity of the Dark One, Shai'tan. But in later books, rather than try to have Rand killed, Moridin tries to have him converted to The Shadow. I think then that Ba'alzamon...the real Shai'tan, not Ishamael, but the Dark One himself...is lying when he says he has control of the dead. As we have seen, some souls pass on into TAR after death, and I believe all souls can be reborn, so they're not likely in a hell controlled by the Dark One if they're to be reborn. Afterall, the Dark One is the Father of Lies, so I'm thinking that the reason they never had Rand killed was because the DO doesn't really control death...or maybe it's similar to a lot of religious mythologies, like Christianity, where the DO = Satan, and has control of evil doers when they die, and The Creator is like God/Heaven. So DO wouldn't have Rand when he dies. Which means Rand being converted to the Shadow must be crucial to the DO's escape.

  15. Sammael, Be'lal, and Demandred really seem quite like the same person. That being said, I like Demandred best of the three.

     

    Also, as for who I think is "least evil"...Asmodean does come to mind, even if he caused chaos (in the AoL and by breaking the Aiel in the 3rd Age), he still seems less evil than most of the others. I'm hoping Lanfear is "less evil" too and is willing to come back to the Light. Sure she did evil acts, but in the 3rd Age she actually helped Rand out a lot and only turned on him after she found out he had slept with aviendha. And it's true that Demandred may not really be among the more evil simply because his actions are caused by jealousy more than evil. Possibly the same of Be'lal...maybe Sammael.

     

    Basically, I would say the most evil ones: Ishamael (obvious), Semirhage (obvious), Mesaana (obvious), Aginor, Graendal (went over really early).

     

    Rahvin, Moghedian, and Balthamel are more of wild-cards IMO. They're definitely evil, but they don't seem as evil as those listed above, nor perhaps as benign as some of the others I mentioned.

  16. Not just in the current age, but in all the time they were active in the Age of Legends, which Forsaken did the most horrific deeds.

     

    My vote goes to Aginor. I mean, he sacrified like 50 million people to make the Trollocs, and with the Trollocs, the Shadow had an army to fight for them and kill countless millions more. Aginor, the Mad Scientist, definitely gets top vote for doing the most evil act.

     

    But I have to say that Semirhage seems more evil. Her descriptions of torturing people are fantastically chilling. We've seen some of that torture and heard rumors of others, far worse than what we've seen. I definitely think she is the scariest Forsaken. Her deeds are surely terrifying and terrible, but again it's hard to match slaying 50 million people to make the Trollocs.

     

     

    Also, can we get a basic list of what bad deeds each Forsaken is known for. These are some I know:

     

    Lanfear - used TAR to enter people's dreams and kill them. Made people afraid to sleep

     

    Moghedian - funnelled information about the Light to the Shadow...not as evil as the others, but what evil deeds has she done?

     

    Mesaana - established schools where children were taught the Shadow was right, and would kill lesser people

     

    Graendal - used Compulsion on people to make them into witless slaves. What else has she done?

     

    Balthamel - I believe he was a master spy. Also wasn't he a womanizer/rapist? What else and how much damage did his spying inflict?

     

    Ishamael - not sure what particular bad thing he was best at, but he was the main baddy.

     

     

    And what deeds in particular have these done: Sammael, Rahvin, Demandred, Be'lal, Asmodean.

     

    I know all are said to have fed cities to Trollocs, or at least people. I believe I read somewhere that Demandred (or was it Sammael...or both) fed entire cities to the Trollocs. I think it was Demandred and because they had spited him. Also, they ocassionally all used balefire but were afraid of it.

     

    So who gets your pick?

     

    And can someone provide me with information on the most significant bad deeds (mostly during the AoL) of each of the Forsaken.

  17. Firstly, I have to say that nothing in TFoH bored me (best book, IMO), and that includes Nynaeve/Elayne's storyline with the traveling menegarie.

     

    Secondly, I've also never been bored by Egwene's storylines. I find them rather interesting, especially in TGS.

     

    Now, ones that do bore me:

     

    -Most of Perrin's storylines after TSR, even some in TOM. In particular, the books long Shaido story arc that was unnecessary and a total bore.

     

    -The Bowl of Winds storyline. Ugh. It has some good parts, but for the most part it drags on too long and felt like filler so that Nynaeve/Elayne and Mat had something to do in ACoS.

     

    -Most of Crossroads of Twilight. I honestly don't even remember what it was about.

     

    -And most of Gawyn's plots period. And Galad's. And a lot of the POVs from Morgasse and the Children.

×
×
  • Create New...