egwene's death was a product of sanderson. Nothing more nothing less.

 

eventually after years and the enclyopedia already out the truth will eventually merge.

 

To be honest, you could tell.

 

The lack of emotion on the super girls, the laughable taim battle, the addition of 'oh noes vora's sangreal has no buffer' last minute etc etc.

 

His refusal to come out and say outright whether he nerfed egwene or was it RJ just seals the deal.

 

If RJ intended Cads to become Amyrlin,he intended Egwene to die.Doubt tht u can blame Sanderson for it. However the manner of death was real cheesy,tht I think was pure Sanderson.

If rj intended egwene to die then sanderson wouldnt be so vague about her death, He is not answering the question. who killed egwene? him or rj?

egwene's death was a product of sanderson. Nothing more nothing less.

eventually after years and the enclyopedia already out the truth will eventually merge.

To be honest, you could tell.

The lack of emotion on the super girls, the laughable taim battle, the addition of 'oh noes vora's sangreal has no buffer' last minute etc etc.

His refusal to come out and say outright whether he nerfed egwene or was it RJ just seals the deal.

If egwene's death was RJs sanderclown would have no hesitation in saying so. The fact that he's dillydallying around the issue and leaving up in the air is his way of shirking from answering the question truthfully. He cant lie since there are other people with access to Rj's notes.

Anyways i am glad my hunches proved right from the start.

So sanderclown confirmed what we all knew. He killed egwene and gawyn. I knew it. And it's a big egg on those who claimed egwene's death was RJ.

It just didnt make any sense. when you have went through pages and pages of character development and yet be the sole death amongst the emond's fielders then it's time to be suspcious.

The lack of reaction from the characters to egwene's death and cadusuane bit in the epilogue was just the confirmation to the nth degree

All the battle hardened aes sedai are actually

The point I would like to raise is about the Green Ajah which Egwene wanted to be a member of - and how disappointing they were! All through the books they have bleated on about being "The Battle Ajah", talking with a glint in their eye how they will be the first in line to deal with the Dark One's forces at The Last Battle. They have a sea of warders between them, and their Ajah headquarters are decorated with weapons and scenes of battles. So yes, they have made their point. So for almost three thousand years they have prepared for this, and what exactly did they prepare? Pevara shows that the Red Ajah knows some pretty nifty fighting moves to handle men that can channel, multiple weaves cast at once to both incapacitate and silence a man. "What did you think the Red Ajah does with its time? Sit around and complain about men?" Brilliant quote and helped give respect to an Ajah that most people thought was full of bitchy women who loathed anything with a Y chromosome.
So here was me thinking the Greens would come into their own in the Last Battle. Now the thing is maybe they did? The air was said to be sizzling with the exchange of weaves during the battle. But never once were the Greens mentioned. All the sisters seemed to be warriors, regardless of Ajah (with the exception of the Yellows in Mayene). All seemed perfectly capable of "lobbing a fireball" or calling down a lightning bolt. If we take this as standard fighting fare - where were the Greens? Where were the nifty fighting weaves and tactics that they had presumably perfected over the millennia for just this occasion? Not a single mention was made and does beg the question - what on earth was the point of the Green Ajah? All mouth and no talk?
In my mind I had all sorts of attacks playing out - three Greens on horseback converging together at a gallop beside the front line, linking together instantly, and using the combined power to chuck out an awesome killer weave (not a fireball in sight thank you). Then dropping the link and straight away galloping away in different directions so that each could channel and defend from incoming weaves. This tactic could then be played over and over to create destruction in enemy troops over a large area. Or even better, a long line of Greens, some sending out killer weaves that no other Ajah has even thought of, whilst others defend against incoming weaves, with trained methods to disrupt the weaves.
I truly thought they would bring something jaw-dropping to the Last Battle, but was totally disappointed at the continuous lighting bolts and fireballs that were lobbed by each and every sister no matter what their Ajah.
Egwene kicked ass at the Last Battle - the Greens? Not so much...

2000 years of bickering, bitching does that to people. The aes sedai were useless for most part of the battles. Not suprised to see the sharans take out alot of them.

I found the yellows to be the most useful since they are always at the fore front healing people. The greens always talk a good game but they are clowns the majority of them

Oh man imagine having MR x as a boss. would be freakin nightmare for anyone. Dude just chill out

^^^

indeed what have they done? nothing. without the aes sedai, tamra and gitara in particular the dragon reborn would have been in the hands of blak ajah.

But hey whatever you say :p

 

mr x you're barking up the wrong tree apart from trolling like a clown as always.

 

You seem to think the aes sedai power has dimiminshed for some reason after the events of third age.

 

What you dont realise that the aes sedai actually gained instead of lost anything.

 

When rand cleansed saidin and the aes sedai and ashaman started bonding with each other it meant that the natural order of things were being restored. The aes sedai were supreme when the males and females were under a single umbrella. That process is slowly but surely coming to fruition

 

 

Not only that But egwene has set up an exhange program with the wise ones and the sea folk in addtion of recruiting the kin back to the aes sedai.

 

 

So when you think about it the aes sedai didnt lose anything. You think a force of aes sedai, ashaman, wiseones and sea folk would ever give way to seanchan then you are even more silly as per usual

 

 

 

@probe

 

you never seen egwene bowing down to someone right? i suggest you go back to book 6 and read what happens before she sets off to salidar.

 

You want humility and acknowldfement of mistakes? i suggest you read TOM and the part where she discovers a bloodied gawyn by her bedside

 

It always helps to actually read the books yknow

 

I don;t care if the power of the WT increases but the power of the white tower as an exclusively female organization has decreased.

exclusive?

its has ceased to become a female exclusive organisation once male and female channellers bonded

mr x you're barking up the wrong tree apart from trolling like a clown as always.

You seem to think the aes sedai power has dimiminshed for some reason after the events of third age.

What you dont realise that the aes sedai actually gained instead of lost anything.

When rand cleansed saidin and the aes sedai and ashaman started bonding with each other it meant that the natural order of things were being restored. The aes sedai were supreme when the males and females were under a single umbrella. That process is slowly but surely coming to fruition

Not only that But egwene has set up an exhange program with the wise ones and the sea folk in addtion of recruiting the kin back to the aes sedai.

So when you think about it the aes sedai didnt lose anything. You think a force of aes sedai, ashaman, wiseones and sea folk would ever give way to seanchan then you are even more silly as per usual

@probe

you never seen egwene bowing down to someone right? i suggest you go back to book 6 and read what happens before she sets off to salidar.

You want humility and acknowldfement of mistakes? i suggest you read TOM and the part where she discovers a bloodied gawyn by her bedside

It always helps to actually read the books yknow

It's amusing to hear people calling egwene a poor amyrlin. Might cause a black tower conflict eh?

Really? Sometimes when i look upon these threads i can only wonder what book i am reading.

Then it comes to me. It doesnt matter because it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things here. when you are hated you will be hated. Even your positives will be turned against you.

In a way it's good egwene went out in a blaze of glory. fitting end to a fitting character. which can't be said about 90% of WOT characters and that includes the dragon reborn

Think what you want.Looks like great mother Egwene is dead and crystalized? LOL. Remember the conversation we had months back when I predicted that Egwene will be dead meat while Logain will rule for a long time?

Give yourself a pat in the back for that prediction.

As for logain well let's just say without egwene logain would have been stilled or executed by arangar.

Egwene is the worst character from the series. From her selfishness to her insistence on the seals not being broken then to be broken by her(?) to wanting Saiden to be tainted again(that would be convinent for her eh?) to wanting the white tower to have leadership of the light's forces. Her ending was also cr@p. Thankfully she died while Tuon lives. 

Tuon  you say,

tuon dead or alive is not in the same league as egwene.

I personally feel that there was no real justification for Egwene’s death. Killing Taim and the Sharans? Bah! It just doesn’t sit with me. The reasons seemed forced and like it was just used for shock value. Egwene had SO much more ahead of her. Yes she sometimes acted a bit immaturely, but she was really young! She would only have kept maturing. And she was always held up as this character that you KNEW was going to go a long way, and was going to become one of the great Amyrlin’s.

 

For me the series is just ruined by this. I will never be able to read her storylines the same way again. Also, she was the only main character to die, and while many other fantasy series have main characters disposed of left right and centre, it is just isn’t fitting for this fantasy series. Nothing so drastic has ever happened before, it just doesn’t feel right or complement the previous books.

I agree. There was absolutely no reason for her death.

After all she has done, she died facing alright i admit a crazy new age chosen. But where is the reward for it? what did she save?

To me it felt like harriet and sanderson were stung by criticism of no major character hitting the bucket and they went through a list of emond fielder's and thought.

cant have him,

nope

err no

outrriger sigh no

hmph possibly......

Personally i feel though her death is not even the major issue. The issue we have is how brandon literally ruined her as a character.  Just like he ruined mat and aviendha. The last book i genuinely thought was egwene was way back in TGS which unsurprisingly was all jordan.

The only person he got remotely right was perrin which suprise suprise was his fave character

barid,

the issue here is you dont build up a character so much give them so much achievements only to die off in the end. Rand the male half of egwene himself made it out alive

Then you have no funerals for her. Just a glancing remark by nynaeve of egwene's death and perrin tearing up.

after all she has done what did she gain? lost her warder in a brutal fashion and died in a middle of nowhere.

She sacrificed everything and she got nothing in the end. Even rand got peace and annoynimity to live his life in peace for the rest of his days.

reeks of last minute dot com death. It looked like maria and co thought we need to get rid of a major character.

Rand obviously no

Mat outrriger

perrin outrigger

nynaeve tied to lan and malkier.

that left egwene as the sole remaining member of the the five.

 

 

duskfire, would u say egwene's death was a violent one? would u say gawyn caused her death when it is plainly obvious it was the balefire mayhem from taim? we got no viewinga from min on eggy's death and possibilities of her death didnt match her battlefield death at all. Egwene's death to me looked like it was a sanderson/harriet planned death rather than RJ

 

That's not possible, since the entire epilogue was written by Robert Jordan, and Egwene's death is clearly mentioned in that.

RJ also tried to downplay callandors important defect by claiming it was a manufacturing flaw.

authors tell fibs. RJ may have wrote the epilogue but insertions and additions can be done

duskfire,

would u say egwene's death was a violent one? would u say gawyn caused her death when it is plainly obvious it was the balefire mayhem from taim?

we got no viewinga from min on eggy's death and possibilities of her death didnt match her battlefield death at all.

Egwene's death to me looked like it was a sanderson/harriet planned death rather than RJ

 

 

 

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

someone give this man a medal

 

perhaps we should ask our resident wise one terez to chase this issue with brandon and co.

 

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

 

even moridin/rand body swap was hinted by min in book 7!!

 

Actually, I'm almost positive that it was foreshadowed in one of Min's viewings.  I don't remember exactly- I've read the books over the past few months- but I do remember a scene where Egwene is walking among pillars of glass, and Min see's "an explosion of light" from Egwene, or something similar. 

 

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure on that one.

egwene's death has not even been foreshadowed once.

There's nothing.

Either RJ planned a suprise major character death or brandon killed her off. Nothing could explain the bulding up of character and achievements of egwene.

Even the male rival counterpart rand survived!

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

someone give this man a medal

perhaps we should ask our resident wise one terez to chase this issue with brandon and co.

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

even moridin/rand body swap was hinted by min in book 7!!

Speak for yourself

I dont like rand. Certainly not mat or that wolf doofus.

The male heroes in these books are utterly unlikable.

I like rhuarc and talmanes though

yar sut we have had this discussion a million times at least well subtract few hundreds but we have all agreed that she has had a very shoddy character development both from RJ and BS. She was an unlikeable character right form the beginning, but so were so many other characters. I mean Mat would not have been among anyone's favorite character in first three books. For me at least his first best scene was his fight with Galad and Gawyn. Look at him I can bet he is among the top three characters for almost 90% of the posters. There are other characters like nyn, Siuan was very overbearing at the beginning, but she is again a well liked character now. I think it was ELRIC IN AN EARLIER POST WHO POINTED OUT QUITE RIGHTLY THAT EVERY CHARACTER HAS AN ALTER EGO THAT SERVES TO BRING HIM or her DOWN A COUPLE OF PEGS WHEN HE or she STARTS GETTING TOO BIG FOR HER BREACHES. Eggy on the other hand does not allow anyone that privilege. So the fans take it upon themselves to play that role

speak for yourself. Egwene's character arc took off from book 6 till book 12. I say book 12 because the egwene portrayed in TGS was mainly RJ.

She tanked in other parts but that's no suprise given that we are dealing with an inept author called sanderson

Problem with Egwene is that she is “gray” character in ridiculously black and white setting. And narrative refuses to acknowledge her moral ambiguity. She could be solid magnificent bastard in hands of some other writer, in some other series. But she is not, so she ends up as just a huge bastard. Ad to that spotlight steeling squad factor for her, supergirls and AS in general and fact that she is such humongous bastard (yes, I said that just sentence ago, but she is such a jerk that it warrants multiple mentions) all backlash is really no surprise. Concerning “Eghaters are just Randfanboyz” comments, I’d suppose that, yes, a number, probably a great number of those who like Rand dislike Egwene and vice versa, but criticism of Egwene goes beyond “Wah! She’s mean to may fav!” For me, what really drives the nail in is mixture of her obnoxious personality and storyarc that so thoroughly stretches suspension of disbelief and lasts so long.

Hallelaluyah the truth finally comes out. Grudgingly. Unfortunately it's all rand al thor fanboys. Not a number of them. And they know deep down inside even if they are afraid to admit it here on this mesage board. Dont be shy guys. Tell what's on your mind. State your allegience to the lord dragon. There's nothing to be ashamed off. Certainly not being called an al thor fanboy. Its better to be honest with people and yourselves rather than strike a cloak of being fair and unbiased. And making such ridiciulous reasons or excuses for egwene hate which has been debunked time and time again on this board.

As for suspension of disbelief, please, the most powerful forsaken in AOL falls three times to bumbling shepherder. Now that's suspension of disbelief or whatever you want to call it

I doubt people actually know the true meaning of the word arrogance.

If egwene is arrogant then what was elaida?

and special lololol for the person who said egwene thrives on her shortcomings and mistakes. I guess the poor lass who felt guily and regret when she saw her dying warder who nearly got finished by seanchan assasasins, was right after all was some figment of my imagination.

Which brings me back to an interesting new theory i have developed. Apart from the haters being rand al thor fanboys they also have developed this uncanny ability to gloss over anything and everything good the mother has done in the space of 6 books from the moment she was crowned amyrlin in salidar.

Not even grudging respect. Not that i am complaining ofcourse. I sincerely thank robert jordan and harriet for creating the finest mary sue character the world has ever seen. The best in the business. Enough to make people froth at the mouth!

I don't know why others hate Egwene so much, but I haven't liked her since I read the first book for the first time. It always bugged me how she just forced herself into the party leaving because she wanted adventure, and then became obsessed with becoming an Aes Sedai. There a few moments in the first few books where she's okay, like how she gets excited Rand could be her Warder (because I just think that little scene in the Blight is cute =3) and I feel sympathy for her when she's a damane because she didn't deserve that, and it wasn't nice to read how she was treated.

 

The biggest problem I have with her, though, is her pretentiousness. As soon as she finds out she can dream, she's a strong channeler, she begins to constantly argue with Nynaeve in tDR, she gets trained by the Wise Ones for reasons I never understood and then manages to deal with everything because she spent a few months with them. I dunno, her character just grates on me. I can't even like her when she's saving the White Tower from destruction in the Gathering Storm, because it's her who saves the day. Ugh.

 

In fact, the only time I kind of like her in the latter part of the series is when she bests Elaida in so many ways during her captivity. But then she's just the lesser of two evils, so... =P

Egwene haters are nothing more rand al thor fanboys. Nothing more nothing less. Notice how they constantly moan about all thinsg aes sedai and the white tower and yet have no problems singing the praises of those sisters who are rand al thor lackeys.

No matter how much they try to give pitiful reasons for their hate or try and justify it, deep down they know that's the main reason. And they will seldom admit it. But you dont have to take my word for it. Every single poster on this board with the egwene hate blinders is a confirmed al thor fanboy

Most bad ass would be if she turned. Which would be consistent with the WoT-as-retelling-of-Authurian-legend theme. And would make her probably my favorite character. Which she currently...isn't, quite.

 

but what if she murders rand and nyneve in the process? ;)

 

That would be fine. Rand, in particular, is clearly going to die. And I don't know that we need happy endings for all. This is the difference between people like you and Kael and most of the rest of us. You're so invested with your love for a particular character that you will only be satisfied by that character's complete triumph and universal acknowledgement of her awesomeness. Nynaeve happens to be my favorite character currently, but if she dies, so be it.

 

she could be thirteen thirteened but that is just going to hand us lot more ammunition as to how incompetent she really is and even I do not want that lol

 

You do not heal a broken tower by being incompetent ;)

 

No, you heal it through amazingly contrived idiocy on the part of your adversaries, combined with Mary-Sue-ness, all amounting to something barely short of deus ex machina. "Egwene saved the Tower, because."

heh, you have the audacity to accuse me of investing so much in a character when half of your entire posts is all about egwene bashing with a little gawyn hatred thrown in the mix. Please. Save me this holier than thou attitude. Your user name in itself proves my point.

It's also ironic that you credit egwene's success on the author/ deus ex machina blah blah when the same can be labelled pretty much on any of the emond's field characters. But hey don't let such things get into your way.

And finally no need to be so vindictive and angry on here half the time. Your jesus rand will still save the world. He will fulfil your inner christian hopes in AMOL. So chill the fuck out

no you just need to be blue eyed girl of the writer and you do not have to make any sense.

such anger and hate. One step closer to using the dark side of the force!

Seriously though it is sounding a bit like jumping the shark to me. All her negatives is attributed to her. All her positives are attributed to her being the blue eyed or in this case brown eyed girl of the writer :)

Most bad ass would be if she turned. Which would be consistent with the WoT-as-retelling-of-Authurian-legend theme. And would make her probably my favorite character. Which she currently...isn't, quite.

but what if she murders rand and nyneve in the process? ;)

she could be thirteen thirteened but that is just going to hand us lot more ammunition as to how incompetent she really is and even I do not want that lol

You do not heal a broken tower by being incompetent ;)