Speaking of which - does Thom feels guilty for killing Moiraine's brother Taringail?

 

Doubtful, it was either kill him or allow him to kill Morgase.

yes, I don't see why he should feel guilty about that one. and Moiraine didn't seem to hold it against him either. What's interesting is how she knew that it was him who did it.

 

Lanfear is definitely weakened. Mesaana mentioned this to Demandred (WH, Ch 13) and Cyndane remarks on it herself in her only POV at the cleansing. BS also said so in interviews.

 

 

Huh? Who said she wasn't weakened? I didn't.

I said there were differing theories as to why she's weakened.

sorry, my fault. I misread that sentence. I thought you were saying that there are different theories as to whether or not Lanfear was weakened.

In any case, as I said, I personally think that Lanfear was weakened because she was drained not because of transmigration because neither Osan'gar nor Aran'gar were apparently weakened.

Where was Lanfear's hiding place when she and the other Forsaken have the meeting in the prologue of TFoH?

 

No one is sure. Not the first time we saw her come and go from that background either. We see the same when she leaves Rhuidean at the end of tSR.

 

 

 

 

Is Moridin still as strong with the OP as he was as Ishamael?

I don't have the books on hand and I can't remember whether Lanfear was weakened because of the 'finns or because the available body wasn't inherently as powerful.

 

We may never know to be honest. Moridin pretty much uses the TP exclusively.

For Lanfear, there's nothing definitive. There are theories for both.

Lanfear is definitely weakened. Mesaana mentioned this to Demandred (WH, Ch 13) and Cyndane remarks on it herself in her only POV at the cleansing. BS also said so in interviews.

Moridin is impossible to estimate as you say but I would guess that he is not weakened based on the fact that, apparently, neither Aran'gar nor Osan'gar were weakened. At least nobody remarks on it including themselves in their POVs. I'm sure it would have been mentioned otherwise.

Siuan frequently bemoans her weaker power and Cyndane remarks on hers in her single POV. Yet Aran'gar who had a number of POVs never complained and neither did Osan'gar. The reason for Lanfear's weakened power is likely that she was drained by the Finns like Moiraine not that she was transmigrated.

In KoD when Galina(posing as Alyse) was brought to Perrins tent everyone in the tent experienced a rippling or something like that, I cant remember the exact phrase, saying it felt like the world rippled,shook, whatever. But it wasnt explained. Anyone have any idea what this was?

While nobody knows for certain, IMO, most likely it was a balescream. The description is quite distinctive and pretty similar to the description of the balescream after Rand balenuked Natrin's Barrow. Also, there is another instance of such rippling that Faile feels (KoD, Ch 5). That one occurs at a different time from Perrin's (his is at night and hers is early in the morning) so it's a separate event. Both occur in the same geographical area and nothing like this is ever mentioned as happening anywhere else. The best theory on the subject that I've seen is that it's Demandred balefiring something in the same general location. he was tasked by the DO to unleash balefire in LoC prologue. He likely complied as he was never punished that we know of and he surely would have if he didn't.

 

 

Another very interesting topic is Taim's reaction when Rand almost breaks the seal that Taim gave him. Taim seems genuinely horrified and it's not really clear why given that he is a high ranking DF and maybe even Moridin himself.

Perhaps he wasn't a DF yet. I've never really been convinced by explanations on why a DF would give one of the keys to their master's prison to basically his sworn enemy. Especially since the shadow has been looking to get those seals back since only shortly after that.

I'm sure that's not it. First, I'm sure that Taim who showed up in LoC is an impostor and maybe even Moridin. Even if you don't believe that there are other clues. Right off the bat Taim displays knowledge that no lightsider should have. He knows the anti-sweating trick. Where did he learn that?! and he also knows how to test for the channeling ability. The process is quite tricky and time consuming and hardly intuitive. How could he possibly figure it out by himself?

One way or the other I'm certain that Taim was a DF from the beginning and a very high ranking one too. I suspect the reason he gave Rand the seal was because the shadow knew that in order for Rand to seal the bore he had to break the seals. That's why Fel was killed -- because he figured it out. of course, the DO does want to break the seals and break free eventually but only in his own time - once everything decays to the point that no credible resistance can be organized. The new zen Rand finally realized this but the Rand of LoC would have no idea about it. That is likely why Taim was so shocked when Rand wanted to break the seal. The mere fact that Taim knew about importance of breaking the seals says a lot about him.

Two short questions that came to my mind while listening to the audiobooks again.

 

1. While the Kin get much older than the Aes Sedai (because of no oaths) is there anything known about this with the Aiel? I think Bair told a story about a famous Wise One, Mora, who was able to channel and who got very old (it was rumored about 300 years), till she died through a snake bite. But Bair wasn't sure about the age, she even was calling it kind of a legend. So why do we not know about Wise Ones getting much older than Aes Sedai? It seems unlikely that they did not tell anyone about it because of Bairs doubts - and she seems to be the oldest of Amys (second), Melaine and hers. So maybe only Sorilea (who can channel different from Bair) seems to be older than Bair.

Is it due to the living conditions of the Aiel - as it was indicated, that this very old Wise One just died because of a snake bite?

 

AFAIK, neither RJ nor BS ever commented on this. The issue has been discussed on the forums before and the general consensus seems to be that a lot of the Wise Ones (like Mora) died before their times due to harsh conditions of living in the Aiel waste. The only problem with that explanation is that it really makes no sense at all that Sorilea who can barely channel turned out to be the oldest Wise One. She is at the end of her natural lifespan but there should be a LOT of Aiel Wise Ones (pretty much all of the ones that can channel) who have much longer natural lifespans (500 years+). From statistical point of view it's extremely unlikely that every single one of them died before their time because of snakebites etc.

 

2. This is a question, I came up several times while rereading:

The story, Padan Fain told High Lord Turak about himself gaining the Horn of Valere, seems very similar to the story Mazrim Taim told Rand about how he gained one of the Great Seals.

 

Fain told Turak that it was in possession of his family for ages and that they swore the oaths to Hawkwing. They had been Lords in the time of Hawkwing, but now they are just small people. IRRC he said that his family was from the Borderlands (? not sure) and that he brought it to Turak because they were the legitimate followers of Hawkwing.

 

Taim told Rand that he got the seal from a farmer in Saldea who claimed that the seal was in possession of his family for ages. When Taim came to his farm he gave the seal to Taim because he thought Taim was the Dragon Reborn.

 

To me this stories sound very similar. While in the first way Fain could easyly tell the Horn was in the possession of his own family, Taim needed a proxy for his story, because otherwise it had been even more unlikely than the original story.

 

And to me both seem to be lies - for Fain's story there's no doubt - and for Taim we know that he is really certain a darkfriend (or maybe more - no, not Demandred ;) ), and that he maybe had a good reason to give the seal to Rand (gaining his trust and also Moridin wanting Rand to break the seals).

 

So my question about this is: Was RJ or BS or Team Jordan ever questioned about this one? Or can I find some further and enlightening discussion about it somewhere?

(otherwise there was a theroy in my mind, that is resembling my name and very unlikly, too ;) )

I don't believe there were any "official" comments on this issue either. Fain's story was of course a lie. Taim's was probably a lie too but it's hard to be sure. But I don't think there is anything in this beyond the seeming similarity that you mention. If you are implying some sort of hidden connection between Taim and Fain (or that they are even the same person?) I'm absolutely certain that there isn't one.

But there are certainly interesting questions related to these episodes. Namely, how did Fain know that the flag over Turak's residence was basically the same as that of Hawkwing's son Luthair. Mordeth was imprisoned in SH about a thousand years before Hawkwing's time.

The only somewhat reasonable explanation I've seen was that Mordeth talked to visitors to SH during his years there.

Another very interesting topic is Taim's reaction when Rand almost breaks the seal that Taim gave him. Taim seems genuinely horrified and it's not really clear why given that he is a high ranking DF and maybe even Moridin himself.

Sorry if this has been covered already, but did we ever find out why Annoura went to meet with Masema?

no, we haven't. Luckers has a theory that Annoura is a DF and was meeting not with Masema but with somebody who Moggy set to watch over Masema.

if a channeler is 13x13'd over to the DO's side, do they just become an evil person, or is it more akin to compulsion i.e., follow all orders from DF, BA, and the Chosen?

it would be the former. RJ explained the effects in an interview

Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

Actually, Isam seemed to say that it could be done, and implied he knew how to, but Perrin only managed to replenish his blood supply:

"You can’t heal yourself," Slayer said. "There are ways, but simply imagining yourself well does not work. You do seem to have figured out how to replenish your blood, however, which is useful."

the strange thing is that this is exactly what Egwene did and it worked for her. Also, as far as I understand, Slayer is in TAR in the flesh just as Egwene was on her trip to Salidar so whatever worked for her should work for him too.

Egwene heals herself in TAR on the way to Salidar (LoC, Ch 34) but Perrin can't do the same when fighting Slayer in ToM and Slayer also claims that it can't be done. Is there a difference? or is this a mistake?

I'm not sure. Egwene was in TaR in the flesh at that point and Perrin was dreaming. I seem to recall that Perrin's injury was a bit more severe than Egwene's was

I really don't think that's it. Egwene was switched quite soundly and she apparently got rid of her injuries while in TAR completely, she had a pretty long ride too.

, and that he succeeded in making it feel better for a short time before it came back to him.

It might have to do with where the injuries occurred, as Egwene was able to heal injuries from the real world in TaR, but Perrin suffered those injuries in TaR and couldn't heal them?

yes, I've thought about that but it seems strange why this should matter.

 

 

Verin still has that scar that never healed properly that was from an injury in TaR.

that's a different matter. I was only asking about healing yourself while in TAR. when Egwene got back to the real world whatever she did to herself in TAR disappeared.

 

 

Also if its possible Moggy didn't know how when shot by Birgettes arrow....

true. but this is a different situation too. as I mentioned, the changes that Egwene made to herself didn't last after she left TAR and the same would be certainly be true for Moggy. she would have to heal her body in real world else she was going to die while asleep even if she could heal herself in TAR.

Egwene heals herself in TAR on the way to Salidar (LoC, Ch 34) but Perrin can't do the same when fighting Slayer in ToM and Slayer also claims that it can't be done. Is there a difference? or is this a mistake?

is there a list of the weaves we have seen? and who can perform them?

 

And if Nynaeve can heal the madness, if she tried to do it to someone who was a darkfriend, would she see a reduced/no dark thorns in their head?

not a complete list by any measure but here is the best list I've seen

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/main/true_source/weaves.html

In Knife of Dreams, in chapter 4 or 5, Faile is talking to a wise one - and suddenly the world "ripples" three times.

 

Do we know the reason behind those ripples?

 

It seems very likely that this is a result of belefire abuse, but if it is that, who used it on whom or what?

nothing is known for certain but I believe in the theory that this was balescream from somebody (likely Demandred) balefiring something in the area. Perrin feels another of those ripples on a different day so this is a repeatable and localized phenomena. The description is also similar to how the balescream after Nartin's barrow destruction is described.

When Taringail became Morgase's husband, he married into House Trakand. Dobraine mentioned it in LoC:

 

She knows as well as any that the Lord Dragon means the Sun Throne for Elayne Trakand.” He grimaced. “Elayne Damodred, she should be. Taringail should have insisted Morgase marry into Damodred instead of marrying into Trakand himself

 

Thus all their children are Trakands. Maybe Tigraine married into House Damodred, though this seems unlikely given that she was the Daughter-Heir. More likely the marriage contract between Taringail and Tigraine has unique clauses because it was intended to bring long term peace between Andor and Cairhien - none of them really marrying into the other House, male children (or at least the elder of them) getting the family name Damodred (thus helping their claim for the Sun Throne), the female Mantear.

Ah, good catch! Thanks a lot. This does clarify the situation somewhat. So they can choose who marries into which house and it's not automatic as I thought. But as you say it is strange that Taringail did not marry into Mantear given that Tigraine was daughter-heir. The options you suggest about special clauses are possible but kind of murky and were certainly never explained.

I still wonder how the rest of the people (commoners and other nobles) choose last names. I think they mostly go by their father's last name but given that it's WoT, I'm not sure. Perrin and Faile did something weird which I didn't quite get.

He is now Perrin t'Bashere Aybara and she is Faile ni Bashere t'Aybara. Did Faile marry "into Perrin's House"? Perrin didn't even have a House at the time although he's got one now. will their kids be Aybaras or Basheres? I assume the former but it's not made very clear.

I'm somewhat confused on how last names are chosen in WoT. It seems to depend on country and/or circumstances. Does it go by father or by mother in Andor? Why is Gawyn Trakand but Galad is Damodred? If it goes by father they should both be Damodreds. If it goes by mother Galad should be Mantear. The other circumstances seem to be very similar. Galad's mother was daughter-heir of Andor, sure to become a queen some day and the high seat of her house. Gawyn's mother was already the queen but that seems to be the only difference.

Do we know anything on how Rand being bonded affects Moridin?

 

Moridin seems to suffer from Rand's wounds. In TGS Graendal notes that Moridin's hand seems to be bother him.

 

Not sure if you understood what I was referring to. I realize there's a blending of sorts going on. What I'm curious about is how the bond with the superwomen and Alanna affects the situation. Does that give Moridin a boost of sorts too? or something along those lines?

I don't think we've seen anything of that in Moridin. AFAIK, the only indications of the bond affects through the link (if that's what they are) are related to Taim=Moridin theory. There are a couple of instances where Taim is described as having something like warder's grace (see the link above). Since Taim is not a swordsman and has not bonded anybody this is used as one of the arguments in favor of Taim being Moridin. But I don't remember anything similar when Moridin is described directly. I have not looked for such signs in Moridin though so they might be present.

Is there a basis for assuming that Min would have seen the viewing and told Moiraine about it, prior to her going to the TR?

That would imply that Min not only saw the viewing but that she either saw Moi+ Thom together in real life and hence, could say "Hey, Mss! You're going to marry that gleeman."

Or that Min not only knew who Thom was, she could describe him in enough detail for Moiraine to know Thom's id.

 

Also given Moi's two decades worth of hunting, would she have deviated from her search in order to follow Thom to the TR?

If she was passing through Baerlon, she was probably headed for the TR anyways.

Seems much more likely that Min's vision was sparked after they fled the TR since she did see Moi + Thom together at that stage.

+1

Also, there is no reason to believe that Thom has ever been to the Stag and Lion before he got there with the Two Rivers party. He doesn't recognize the place (he comments on that specifically) and nobody there recognizes him. Master Fitch doesn't recognize him when they arrive and neither do the servants. When Perrin tells Ara that Thom is a gleeman, Ara says he realized that because he saw his cloak. There would certainly be no need for that exchange if they knew each other. So for Min to have seen Thom together with Moiraine before would be something completely improbable. and Min doesn't recognize Thom either, at least she shows no hint that she's seen him before. She is quite ready to tell Rand that she knows Moiraine and Lan and saw viewings about them yet she says nothing of the sort about Thom. she does mention (and so does master Fitch) that Moiraine was on the way to the Two Rivers when she stopped at their inn last time.

Does Rand still have access to the memories of his lives before LTT? I was sure that I saw an interview quote somewhere that he does not but I can't find it.

Quick question because I'm an inattentive reader:

 

When did Mat start carrying all those knives? At first, he leaves TR with nothing but a long bow. At some point I seem to remember him acquiring a quarterstaff. Then, all of a sudden, BAM! He's like Bullseye from Marvel comics and has more knives than a cutlery store.

The earliest I can remember of Mat showcasing his skills with knives is when he pinned the playing cards with his knives during the bubble of evil in Tear (TSR, Ch 1). He seemed to be mostly using his quarterstaff before. as for his special skills with knives part he may have learned something from Thom and or Lan as others suggested. But also he is extremely lucky and that often works just as good as skill (as in "rabbit for supper" in ToM). Lastly, he definitely picked up some skills with knives once he got all those memories in Rhuidean. He mentioned that specifically during the fight in Maderin in KoD.

It was pretty much the same thing with the kerchief trick. Aviendha could do it, but Min and Birgitte couldn't manage it.

it took me some time to figure out which kerchief trick you meant but yes, you are right, it seems to be the same there. Except that the kerchief trick didn't seem to work for Min at all while the anti-sweating trick seems to work for Siuan at least a little. It was that half way business that I found confusing.

I'm surprised you didn't mention that Maria agrees with you (though it doesn't seem like she was going by the notes):

Luckers: Min says she was never able to master the ‘ignoring heat/cold’ trick, and we’ve never seen any non-channeler master it. Is it something only a channeler can do?

Maria: It shouldn’t be. Of course, it’s been kept secret from most non-channelers, so that’s not really evidence. I think that part of it is that a channeler is used to controlling things more – they have to have more focus and self-discipline just to manage the One Power, so they are better at controlling their reactions in general, and the trick works better for them because of it.

I don't see that quote as agreeing with what terez said. Maria is saying there that channeling ability is not necessary and it's all concentration and focus, but the Aes Sedai are good at it because they need those things to channel. Maria seems to be inventing

there and it looks wrong to me. If that's all it was Siuan should have lost none of her abilities in ignoring heat after she was stilled. She had years practicing focus and self-discipline. stilling would not affect any of that. This is just a wrong explanation IMO and terez gave the right one.

Herid, I don't see those two sentences as conflicting. She mentioned being envious of their dry brows, not their ability to ignore the heat. Indeed, her second comment confirmed that while she could usually do it, she couldn't under that much pressure. And that's not the first time we've seen an AS break concentration under pressure.

I disagree. Old Siuan would never crack that way. She was Amyrlin and faced all kinds of pressure in her life. we've never seen her loose her cool like that. r It's quite clear that her loss of channeling ability plays a role in this.

I get the impression that it's a matter of concentration, but it's made much easier if you can channel.

ah, ok, you are probably right.

In FoH Siuan regrets that she can't use the anti-sweating trick since being stilled.

Siuan told herself that she did not envy these women their ability to channel—she was past that, surely—but she did envy the way none of them perspired. Her own face was quite damp.

-FoH, Ch 27

This would seem to prove that the anti-sweating trick is related to the ability to channel. However later in the very same chapter she thinks something suggesting the opposite

Siuan thought she might sweat down to nothing if she could not find another way. She still had enough control of herself to ignore the heat, usually, but not while trying to drag these women along without letting them notice her fist in their hair.

-FoH, Ch 27

I'm confused. Which way is it? Can she use the anti-sweating trick after being stilled or not?

Maybe Elayne and Nynaeve don't shield their dreams to allow Egwene a way to contact them easily with urgent messages.

 

Though given that Moghedien, who has a reputation of a master of using TAR and dreams, is really mad at them, that would be reckless even by WoT's standards. ;)

Exactly. I rather suspect that they never learned how to do it. Their study in the White Tower was quite abbreviated and there are a number of things they never learned. And they showed on some occasions (like with not asking Moggy about Traveling) that they could miss asking to be taught even some very useful things.

Lanfear mentioned to Rand "I have examined the Aielwomen’s dreams. These so-called Wise Ones. They do not know how to shield themselves very well.". So it seems that they use some kind of shielding, but it's not really effective, if we are to believe Lanfear. Maybe that's intentional to allow them to Dreamwalk.

Good catch. Although, by how Egwene describes the Wise Ones dreams later it sounds like they don't shield their dreams at all. and yes, it's natural to assume that shielding her dreams could interfere with her ability to dreamwalk. The only somewhat strange thing about it is that neither Nynaeve nor Elayne ever seem to do it either and might not even know how. Possibly, they didn't have time to learn. The Aes Sedai in Salidar might not have been willing to teach them until they were properly raised. But it's still strange though as Egewene could surely order somebody (say, Siuan) to teach them. and they themselves could order Merilille and co to teach them in Ebou Dar or in Caemlyn once they asserted their authority with that group.

I got the impression that it interferes with Dreamwalking somehow.

I've thought of that but Nynaeve and especially Elayne don't do that much of dreamwalking and they never seem to shield their dreams either. At least Egwene can speak into their dreams any time she needs to.

Does Egwene know how to shield her dreams? She never seems to do so even late in the series and neither do Nynaeve and Elayne. the Wise Ones don't shield their dreams either. Surely Moiraine could have easily taught Egwene how to shield dreams before her disappearance at the end of FoH. And the other Aes Sedai could have done it after Egwene became Amyrlin. By what Moiraine said shielding dreams is a standard practice among Aes Sedai.

Perrin might have been mentioned like a few paragraphs before, but Rand had been talking quite a bit after this before the colours struck. Maybe there was a severe delayed reaction when the colours first started? Suppose that's the most likely explanation.

I made a guess on this about five years ago and I haven't seen an alternate option that makes more sense yet. Anyway, I figure it was because the scene with Berelain was staged so that she could secretly sneak off with Perrin to go after Masema, which is revealed a few chapters later. This made Rand think (indirectly) of Perrin, and he didn't really understand the colors at that point so he didn't make the connection.

That would explain it but it doesn't seem to be the case based on the full context of the conversation. It's pretty clear that Rand's original order to Berelain was to return to Mayene and he only changed it after she complained. This did not looked staged as the whole thing is told from Rand's POV and looks quite straightforward. He is genuinely puzzled by her reaction which would not be the case if the scene was staged.

“What is the meaning of this, my Lord Dragon?” she demanded, brandishing the letter he had had delivered to her this morning. She stalked across the floor to shake it under his nose. “Why am I to return to Mayene? I have governed well here in your name, and you know it. I could not stop Colavaere having herself crowned, but at least I stopped her changing the laws you made. Why am I to be sent away? And why am I told by letter? Not to my face. By letter! Thanked for my services and dismissed like a clerk who’s done collecting the taxes!”

 

....

 

Rand stared. Why was she struggling so hard to keep a difficult job that had offered few thanks from Cairhienin even before some began wanting to kill her? She was a ruler, used to dealing with rulers and embassies, not street thugs and knives in the dark. Warm honey or no warm honey, it was not for any desire to stay near Rand al’Thor. She had . . . well, offered herself to him . . . once, but the hard fact was that Mayene was a small country, and Berelain used her beauty as a man would a sword, to keep her land from being swallowed by its more powerful neighbor, Tear. And there, simple as that, he had it. “Berelain, I don’t know what else I can do to guarantee Mayene for you, but I will write out any—” Colors swirled so strongly in his head that his tongue froze. Lews Therin cackled. A woman who knows the danger and isn’t afraid is a treasure only a madman would spurn.

 

“Guarantees.” Bleakness engulfed honey, and anger bubbled again, cold this time. Annoura plucked at Berelain’s sleeve, but she paid the Aes Sedai no heed. “While I sit in Mayene with your guarantees, others will serve you. They will ask then rewards, and the service I did here will be faded and old, while theirs is bright and new. If the High Lord Weiramon gives you Illian and asks Mayene in return, what will you say? If he gives you Murandy, and Altara, and everything clear to the Aryth Ocean?”

 

“Will you serve if it still means leaving?” he asked quietly. “You will be out of my sight, but not out of my mind.” Lews Therin laughed again, in such a way that Rand nearly blushed. He enjoyed looking, but sometimes the things Lews Therin thought . . .