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herid

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Posts posted by herid


  1. I really didn't like most of the Demandred arc. Admittedly, in part this was because I just can't accept the Shara thing. This has been argued before but there was absolutely nothing pointing to Demandred hiding in Shara other than the process of elimination of large military resources. But by the same token he could have been hiding in the Land of the Madmen, in the Seanchan (it's huge and both Semi and Tuon have been gone a long time) or in a portal world somewhere. There are just as many clues pointing to him being in any of those places as to Shara, which is precisely zero.  On the other hand, we actually have clues in the opposite direction coming from Graendal and her involvement in Shara. Graendal operating there however briefly but not noticing a messianic figure showing up all of a sudden and conquering the land is not tenable.  I honestly would have been far happier if Mik's Seafolk theory turned out to be true than this Shara crap. It's just a huge deux ex machina and I expected better from RJ (this one is definitely on him). As Terez mentioned in another thread BS also made a number of pretty misleading statements implying that we could figure out Demandred's alter ego but this doesn't bother me nearly as much as the deux ex machina thing.

     

    But even setting this aside I agree with Mark D that Demandred spends most of the screen time as a maniac  sitting on a hill and spraying his enemies with a huge machine gun. We are repeatedly told about his great general skills by various people including Demandred himself but we are not shown very much of that (unlike in Mat's case).  I expected something more subtle and devious. What we got from Demandred in AMOL was about as subtle and devious as a kick in the groin. I was also hoping for some hint of the mysterious very cool things that Demandred has been doing in the previous books according to BS. We got absolutely nothing in that department. The duels were pretty repetitive too. I suspect this one is on RJ as Gawyn's,  Galad's and Lan's roles in the LB were likely planned far in advance. I did enjoy the flashbacks of his fight with Lan to both TGH (sheathing the sword) and NS (Lan's fight against Ryne). I also kind of liked the Dragonslayer prohecies about Demandred in Shara. Still, this was very ad hoc and as such inappropriate for the very last book in the series IMO.

    The best part of Demandred's story line IMO was his POV in the Last Battle chapter where he thinks about Shendla and some humanity in the guy comes through.


  2.  

    In general I didn't like most of the epilogue except for the last scene with Rand and the pipe and Cadsuane becoming Amyrlin (that was totally cool!). I understand that it was written by RJ (far from his best writing IMO) and BS wanted to preserve it but I think that this once he should have worked more on it.

     

    For the record, the Cadsuane scene was written by Brandon. And Cadsuane didn't 'become' Amyrlin; that was left open-ended as well. It wasn't even an official summons.

     

    yeh, but it's pretty clear where things are going. I didn't know that this bit was written by BS. He only mentioned that most of the epilogue was RJ. I like the Cadsuane part because I find it to be a very nice plot twist.  I was sure that Egwene would survive in part because I didn't see who could reasonably become Amyrlin if she died.  Likewise, I was sure that Cadsuane would die because her mission in life would be  fulfilled when the LB was over. What ended up happening is quite satisfactory IMO even though my own predictions about both of them were totally wrong.


  3.  

    another question that's bugging me. How did Faile manifest herself as a falcon in TAR? she is not a dreamwalker.  This was different from TDR because then she wasn't using any ter'angreal this time around.

     

    I don't think she did.

    I believe it was a need thing, much in the way the wonder twins found where the Bowl of the Winds was.

     

    sorry but that doesn't make sense. the bowl of the winds is an inanimate object and had a reflection in TAR. Faile is a person so she shouldn't have unless she was asleep and could dreamwalk.

     

     

    I am surprised at the number of people who have a problem with the ending being so open.  I felt like that was the best type of ending you could possibly have.  What else did people expect?  The only closure we could have gotten would be through Rand's death and despite how I think that would have been a more emotionally satisfying ending, the scene with Rand riding off into the sunset was beautiful.

     

    I have to agree. I feel like the parts that were not ended - Like Hawkwing's chat to Tuon being left off=screen - were done the best, be it Jordan or Sanderson. The things I found unsatisfying were the things that were tied up, like the Binding of the Nine Moons/bowing to crystal throne. 

     

    I thought the series benefited much from leaving so much left open, instead of having rushed, unsatisfying conclusions. 

     

    I agree about the binding the Nine Moons/ bowing to the crystal throne thing. It felt like a check mark on a to do list more than anything. I also found it to be written worse than the first Rand Tuon meeting.

    I didn't mind the ending being open so much as I didn't like a number of  things that actually finished happening offscreen but were left unexplained. We shouldn't have to ask the author in interviews to find out what happened to a certain character  between points A and points B in the book. that's just unacceptable. How  did Alanna end up at Shayol Ghul? what was in Verin's letter to her and how did she get out of Tear?  what was in Verin's letter to Galad? it seemed to play no role at all so why  was it introduced in the previous book in the first place? where was Talaan all that time? I  suspect Alanna will be in the River of Souls but even if she is I don't find this justifiable.


  4.  

    Since reading the AMOL prologue I was leaning toward Nakomi being an Aiel hero of the Horn. She could be Verin at the same time although  I'm not sure how that's supposed to fit into the timeline.

     

    There is no timeline.

     

    Yes, I know. So this wasn't really an honest objection but just a gripe at this point. Nakomi being both Verin and an Aiel Hero of the Horn could work and is far less objectionable than a Creator avatar. But I don't much like it either.  I also don't see any point of her being in the tunnel. what the heck was that for? she didn't really do anything to affect anything there.

     

     

    It was written to seem like Mat didn't even care that Rand was seemingly dying.  Mat would tell himself and everyone around him that he doesn't care about Rand but as we've seen time and time again this denial of Mat's usually means the reverse.  He constantly tells himself all sorts of things that we know not to be the case.  When he tells himself he wouldn't lift a finger to save someone, someone's gonna get saved soon.  When he's told that Elayne has died his heart lurches while thinking Rand... I'm sorry.  But then 5 mins later we need the Heroes of the Horn to remind Mat that Rand's an all right kind of guy and that he should probably go save his life?  And instead of saying goodbye to him like the other 'originals' he goes off smiling to give Tuon a fireworks display?  Perrin's wife was pretty much assumed dead and he managed to pop his head in the tent for a bit.

     

    +1. I found it  weird too. In general I didn't like most of the epilogue except for the last scene with Rand and the pipe and Cadsuane becoming Amyrlin (that was totally cool!). I understand that it was written by RJ (far from his best writing IMO) and BS wanted to preserve it but I think that this once he should have worked more on it. It's far too abbreviated and feels really incomplete. Nynaeve starts sniffing about Rand's girls reaction to his death and then nothing? Neither Perrin nor Mat register any feelings about Rand's death? what's up with that? That's taking being anti Tolkien WAY too far IMO.

     

    The Perrin/Slayer stuff took up way too much of the book.  

     

     

    I mostly agree with that too. Perrin's story arc had some very interesting twists but a lot of his confrontation with Slayer was very repetitive and a copy of what happened in ToM. I found it boring and with a few exceptions written much worse than their duel in ToM. But if you look at the page count Perrin is a lot less in the AMOL than the other major characters. he really got a short shrift in AMOL IMO.


  5. Since reading the AMOL prologue I was leaning toward Nakomi being an Aiel hero of the Horn. She could be Verin at the same time although  I'm not sure how that's supposed to fit into the timeline. But given all the crazy  things that happened in AMOL I wouldn't rule out her being a Creator avatar even though it certainly would be a huge deus ex machina.  Can't really think of anything else even allowing really crazy things. A Jenn Aiel dreamwalker? she wouldn't be able to get into the tunnel because of the dreamspike. whatever happened to the dreamspike btw? Lanfear didn't disable it so it was there till the end.


  6.  

    Rand kneeling to the Crystal throne has obviously been fulfilled when Rand knelt to Tuon in chapter 17. It was never proved conclusively that this was a false prophecy. Perhaps it was but perhaps not. I rather think it wasn't. It's not really important as it was fulfilled either way. The three on a boat one was a dream  and not a prophecy. Those need not be fulfilled and some weren't. I find the metaphorical explanations such as the ones offered earlier completely unacceptable so I prefer to think of this as an unfulfilled dream even though two different  dreamwalkers had it.

     

    It was a Foretelling by Nicola, which is absolute. It just happened to be backed up by two different dreamers.

    oops, sorry, you are quite right. I remembered that this was a dream but for a moment forgot that it was in Nicola's foretelling too. Well then, this sucks even more. Badly.

     

     

    I hate the "fulfillment" of Nicola's foretelling too because the world post the LB is not teetering on an edge of a blade.

    I think the "great battle" in that prophecy is the Battle of Merrilor. The one at SG is ongoing and in the situation with Rand vs DO it can literally be said that the world is teetering on the edge of a blade, Callandor.

     

    Mostly because of this:

    >>And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

    when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

    that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

    and all that is, all that was,

    and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

    while the winds of the Shadow grow.

     

     

    This was what I thought before AMOL as i believed this prophecy to be coupled with Nicola's foretelling. This was one of the many reasons I was so sure that Rand was going to die before the LB was over. The problem is that it doesn't fit the rest of Nicola's foretelling which in full was this

     

    The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.

     

    So this is after Rand's death and after the Last Battle. I guess we have to take it that the future is still extremely unsettled and can slip into something like what Avi saw in her second trip to Rhuidean. Bair saw similar things so perhaps the Aiel (and likely the rest of the world) will have to walk a very fine line to keep things from deteriorating in the future and will use the crystal columns in Rhuidean as a test for that purpose.


  7.  I would say Egwene's death was the most emotional for me. I found a number of other death scenes surprisingly unmoving for various reasons. Some characters (like Siuan) had too little to do in the book and had no definable story arcs.  They showed up briefly and died. That diminished the impact of their deaths on me as a reader in a big way. Another problem was that most of them died in somebody else's POV's with little  to no psychological  buildup. That was true of Birgitte's death among others. That was supposed to be the horrific GRRM moment BS warned us about. But it came on too quickly and unexpectedly and lacked an emotional punch as a result. Compare this to Masema's death in tGS for example. WAY WAY more emotional  and better written than Birgitte's death. And that's too bad. Should have definitely been  the other way around.


  8. Rand kneeling to the Crystal throne has obviously been fulfilled when Rand knelt to Tuon in chapter 17. It was never proved conclusively that this was a false prophecy. Perhaps it was but perhaps not. I rather think it wasn't. It's not really important as it was fulfilled either way. The three on a boat one was a dream  and not a prophecy. Those need not be fulfilled and some weren't. I find the metaphorical explanations such as the ones offered earlier completely unacceptable so I prefer to think of this as an unfulfilled dream even though two different  dreamwalkers had it.

     

    The Dark prophecies are more confusing. In the first one Lanfear's new lover is Perrin but he didn't die so I don't understand how that is supposed to have worked. The second one is also unclear. I agree with the suggestions above that the Broken Wolf is Demandred. He was  the only person whose death can be said to have brought fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shaken their very will itself. His death seriously shook the Sharans. none of the others even remotely fit. Rand's death occurred much later so he is out for chronological reasons. I guess we have to accept that the Midnight Towers means the seven Towers of Malkier although I don't think they've ever been described that way either in the books or in interviews. I really hate that part for that reason.

     

    I hate the "fulfillment" of Nicola's foretelling too because the world post the LB is not teetering on an edge of a blade.


  9.  

     

     

    One question here, does Rand essentially light a pipe at the end with the Pattern? I was pretty sleep deprived by that point lol. He definitely didn't use the power, but it was like, oh I need this pipe lit? lol

     

    I may be incorrect.

     

    You're correct.  I think its just a little easter egg to spark mystery with the ending.  Best speculation is that considering all he just went through he has gained some TAR-like abilities in the real world now.  He spent a long time inbetween worlds and wove his own pattern in there, etc.

     

    I dont think its meant to be anything that is explainable nor do I think its something that was meant to be thought a lot about.  It's just a quirk at the end.

     

     this is clearly the hook RJ was talking about and  it was done specifically to make the fans speculate. I'm sure they will too. I agree though that this is not explainable, or, at least, it will never be explained by the authors. Could be a TAR like ability as you say. or a new type of power Rand seemed to use at the end in the sealing. or is this happening in a Pattern that Rand created during his battle with the DO? I suspect people will think of other possibilities too.

    Isn't this a bit Neo from the Matrix?

     

    lol, I didn't think of that comparison but yeh, it does sound like it. but I don't insist on any of the the theories I mentioned. as I said this is clearly a hook to encourage endless reader speculation. I'm not even sure RJ left an explanation for it really is or that he even had a firm pinion about it himself.


  10.  

    One question here, does Rand essentially light a pipe at the end with the Pattern? I was pretty sleep deprived by that point lol. He definitely didn't use the power, but it was like, oh I need this pipe lit? lol

     

    I may be incorrect.

     

    You're correct.  I think its just a little easter egg to spark mystery with the ending.  Best speculation is that considering all he just went through he has gained some TAR-like abilities in the real world now.  He spent a long time inbetween worlds and wove his own pattern in there, etc.

     

    I dont think its meant to be anything that is explainable nor do I think its something that was meant to be thought a lot about.  It's just a quirk at the end.

     

     this is clearly the hook RJ was talking about and  it was done specifically to make the fans speculate. I'm sure they will too. I agree though that this is not explainable, or, at least, it will never be explained by the authors. Could be a TAR like ability as you say. or a new type of power Rand seemed to use at the end in the sealing. or is this happening in a Pattern that Rand created during his battle with the DO? I suspect people will think of other possibilities too.


  11. The seanchan were intentionally left wide open and the damane thing was also intentionally left wide open as something for the Fourth Age to deal with it.  The Nakomi thing also bothers me though, and there are plenty of other things that were left wide open or unxplained entirely that should have been.

     

    Honestly, it's not the lack of resolution that bothers me in this book as much as it is how poorly some of the resolution was written in and integrated.  Lanfear, Moridin, Alanna, Padan Fain, Darkhounds and Wolves, Moiraine, etc.  They all felt just dropped in and wrapped up in the least amount of effort possible just for the sake of resolution.  It really is terrible how casually "oh and there are darkhounds at shayol ghul now...and now padan fain and his mist is here..." some of these major plot points were finalized.

     

    +1.  instead of hundreds of pages of rather repetitive  battle scenes I would have much preferred seeing more time  spent fleshing out  various plot points.

    As for what's left unexplained. Alanna is not explained at all. Perhaps she will be in the River of Souls. Verin's letter to Galad is not explained at all. Nakomi is not explained at all (Luckers was right about her in his predictions). Talaan's story is unexplained.  How the seals were stolen was not explained.

    Unless I missed it the DFs going mad at Maradon is not explained.  The light stuff in Rand's mind is unexplained. The channeling sickness before VoG and its abscence after VoG is not explained as far as I can tell.

    Lots of things that happened in previous books are left unexplained too: the attack on Algarin's manor, who betrayed Egwene in CoT, possible balescreams that Faile and Perrin felt in KoD, Slayer's employer in WH and so on. A lot of it was clearly intentional to leave as theory fodder for the fans. That's ok for some things but definitely not for others (such as Nakomi or Alanna).


  12. I'm still reading the book so this may have been mentioned already (I don't want to read the thread to avoid spoilers) but In chapter 4 Pevara tells an outright lie when she says that Dobser (hate that name) can't hear them right after she makes it possible for him to hear their conversation.


  13. an exam on the 8th? that's very strange timing. The classes at UofT start today and I'll be very busy teaching all this week. I'm still upset AMOL was not released 5 or 6 days earlier so that I could read it at ease during the break.


  14. I was disappointed in the memory tbh. Line started well but I felt the end to be meh, which annoys me. It's supposed to make you ready for shit to get serious but to me it didn't really work tbh.

     

    I disagree. I don't know whose line this is (it doesn't really matter IMO)  but I do find it to be rather well written and moving. This is a nice change given what's we've seen of AMOL so far and gives me some hope for the rest of the book.


  15. @Ford75. It's stated explicitly that she came to fulfill the bargain for the Bowl.

     

    In addition to returning with the first of the Aes Sedai (Amylia) agreed to in the bargain for use of the Bowl of the Winds, she (Zaida) also had returned with her own bargain

    --KoD, ch 22

     

     

    She also wanted to study the Sea Folk of course but that was not why she came. In any case, I'm fairly sure that BS dropped this plotline altogether and we won't see any of the Silver Swan Aes Sedai including Amylia again.


  16.  

     

     

    Two things come mind. First, Rand might've heard that VOICE before; whether he did or not, we'll finally have our answer,

     

    I'm also hoping that we will but a couple of people in this thread claimed that according to some interviews the VOICE at the end of tEoTW will never be explained.

     

    Not true. Harriet just asked Brandon to keep quiet about it, to the point that he wouldn't confirm or deny it was addressed in the book.

     

    Thanks. Nobody provided quotes in that thread supporting the claim that the VOICE would not be explained but it was still unsettling.


  17. Obviously, many people noticed this memory was a reference to Rand's first use of the Power.

     

    That was my first reaction too. But I agree with Sid - it's weird to give this line to Faile given that she's never seen Bela before.

     

    Two things come mind. First, Rand might've heard that VOICE before; whether he did or not, we'll finally have our answer,

     

    I'm also hoping that we will but a couple of people in this thread claimed that according to some interviews the VOICE at the end of tEoTW will never be explained.

     

     

     

    but more importantly -- Rand had to think that the VOICE was helping him then. How would he react to hearing it in the Pit of Doom? By the way, I don't doubt that the DO believes this about himself; as RJ once said, villains can be most insidious when telling the truth.

     

    Secondly, am I the only one whose mind jumped to Demandred, using the DO's megaphone?

     

    Lol, that's always fun to reread.

     


  18. @yoniy0 I don't have any good ideas myself but regarding your (a) maybe it's something about  reversing the 13x13 process. There is a moment in TDR where Perrin is spying on Lanfear and Ishy in TAR and thinks that she is denying the DO because he thinks that Isy IS the DO.

     

     

    Light! One of the Forsaken in my dreams! Light! And unless he had missed something, she had defied the Dark One. He had been told and taught that the Shadow could have no power over you if you denied it; but how could a Darkfriend—not just a Darkfriend; one of the Forsaken!—defy the Shadow?

    -TDR, ch 36

     

    Perhaps there is a way to reverse the 13x13 turning by doing this. This may seem to contradict a quote by RJ that reversing the 13x13 turning can not be done unaided, but perhaps if there is an outside push of some sort it can be made to work.

     

    It does seem weak, I admit, especially given that, presumably, the Aes Sedai dealt with many turned people during the Trolloc wars and never managed to reverse the turning (at least so far as we know).


  19. RJ said this in an interview

     

    Interview: Sep 4th, 2005

     

     

    Question
    Can a person who cannot channel the One Power, can they use the True Power of the Dark One?
    Robert Jordan
    No.

     

    There are no qualifiers in this answer so I think it should apply to a person that was stilled. and there has certainly never been anything to suggest that Moridin or Ishy has ever been stilled. That idea should go to the loony bin.

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