Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

mdnyttokr

Member
  • Posts

    370
  • Joined

  • Last visited

News item Comments posted by mdnyttokr

  1. I must (very) respectfully disagree with the idea of Lan or any other Warder as the Broken Wolf, and I also have a minor issue with the phrase "whom death has known" referring to Moiraine's death. Seems a bit of a stretch for me, and here's why:

     

    While it's true that warders are often referred to as wolves, there's nothing in the simile to single out Lan as being the "Broken Wolf" mentioned in that prophecy OTHER THAN Moiraine's death possibly being the way that Lan has "known death."

     

    The part that loses me is that Lan isn't the only warder who has lost his Aes Sedai. By this rationale, ANY warder that has lost his Aes Sedai could be the "Broken Wolf that death has known."

     

    I think "knowing death" in the Shadow's Prophecies means something much more personal. The only ones that could say they have "known death" personally in this series (out of the major characters) on the side of the LIght are Rand, Mat, & Aviendha. Rand knows Moridin, whose name means literally "Death" and Mat & Aviendha both died were brought back by Rand at the end of TFoH. Mat also died (or nearly so) in TSR in Rhuidean.

     

    Is there any possibility that the "Broken Wolf" is currently someone working for the Dark One? That expands the list of those who have "known death" to include all of the surviving Forsaken, or possibly just the ones the DO has brought back at some point and are still alive.

     

    We should make a list. A "Broken Wolf" list of possible contenders.

  2. I'm too lazy to re-read the entire comment thread, but has anyone else noticed that in the phrase "whom Death has known..." death is capitalized?

     

    Moridin's name means "death" in the old tongue, which I recall from book 6 when he's first introduced to the other Forsaken, either Moghedian or Demandred makes that observation. Something about "any fool can call themselves 'Death.'" Easy to remember for us Californians, since the Spanish word "morir" means "to die."

     

    The Broken Wolf... whom Death has known. So assuming that "Death" in this case refers to Moridin, Rand is the only broken thing that Moridin could be said to have "known." Their mysterious link has resulted in them being able to influence one another, sometimes without even realizing it. More credence to the theory that Rand is the Broken Wolf.

     

    As for first among vermin, has anyone suggested that might be referring to Taim or Egwene? This really could mean anything since I don't believe there's a context for "first among vermin" or "him who will destroy." So I'm assuming that "him who will destroy" would be the Dark One. "First among vermin" could be a reference to either the Aes Sedai (first among servants) or the Asha'man (universally reviled by almost everyone including Aes Sedai, hence vermin). Taim, as a darkfriend would have an obvious reason to set the Dark One free, even if he doesn't realize that breaking the remaining seals would help Rand to "clear away the rubble." Or it could mean that Rand is able to convince Egwene that not only do the seals need to be broken, but perhaps he also convinces her that she has to be the one to do it.

     

    There's just so many cool ways this could play out!

     

    Another thought about the Broken Wolf. Assuming it's Rand, Rand was obviously broken (he said as much, as jack pointed out), and now has found his sense of purpose and reclaimed his compassion. If he was broken before, he certainly isn't broken now. My point is that the dark prophecies might only hint at how the shadow COULD win, and not how they WILL win. In order for the shadow to win, Rand would have to be considered "broken" in some way at the start of the Last Battle, but that doesn't look like it's going to be the case. We've already seen that since Veins of Gold, Rand is a lean mean shadow-stompin' machine. Remember Maradon?

     

    Good theories, folks!

  3. We are stronger together than we are apart, and by working together, we accomplish great things.

     

    I've always felt that's one of the central themes to this series, and it echoes here on this site, and in Team Jordan. This is RJ's vision, but bless everyone who helped to bring his idea to fruition. I'm sad to see the story finally end, but I'm also happy to see RJ's vision fulfilled.

     

    Thanks to Harriet, Maria, Alan, Jason, Team Jordan, Team Dragonmount, and most especially, Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, for completing this turn of the wheel.

     

    Light shine upon you all!

  4. Oh, ye of little faith. There shall be an epic throwdown between Moiraine & Lanfear. There is unfinished business between those two...

     

    I'm in the camp that says Lanfear is NOT going to help Rand, and that her begging Rand to rescue her is a ploy. Moridin has her mindtrap, so she cannot do anything without him knowing about it. Her reaching out to Rand the way she did, I don't think Moridin would allow that unless he's using her as bait. That's what I think is going on. And I think if Moiraine were to find out about Lanfear's attempt to get Rand to help her, she'd say: "Don't EVER trust Lanfear. She is still the same person she was" And now she has the Dark One's champion pulling her strings directly. No way is she going to turn away from the Shadow. I'd believe that Moridin would turn to the Light before Lanfear does.

  5. Thanks, Mashiara! Great theories.

     

    Even if Fain doesn't end up getting locked in with the DO, I still think there must be some kind of direct confrontation between Fain and the DO. It may be brief, but it's got to be there somewhere. There's just too much foreshadowing for that not to happen. I like the idea that the DO may attempt to re-taint saidin (or saidar, or both), but the flow of the taint gets redirected to Fain. That could be it. But I also have a feeling that whatever dooms Fain will also ultimately be the same thing that dooms the DO.

     

    This book will be epic. EPIC, I tell you!

  6. Gwenifer, I think you may have touched on something important. "When the bore is unmade."

     

    We know that the DO, if he wins, plans to un-make the world, and he would presumably use the True Power to do this. So the True Power can be used to "unmake" things. And we know that Rand can access the True Power.

     

    Conclusion: Rand could use the True Power to unmake the Bore, restoring the Dark One's prison to the same condition it was in before the Bore was made.

     

    This also could tie in nicely with an earlier theory about there being a "Dark Callandor" or some other kind of sa'angreal for the True Power, and the body-swap theory.

     

    So here's how this would work, briefly:

    1. Rand, along with Callandor, Nynaeve, and Alivia, faces Moridin at Shayol Ghul. Moridin reveals his own sa'angreal.

     

    2. They fight, it looks like Moridin might win. Then, somehow, the body swap happens. Moridin is now in Rand's damaged body, bleeding all over "the rocks of Shayol Ghul." He's now firmly under the control of Nynaeve and Alivia. Nynaeve and Alivia notice that something is wrong, but Nynaeve won't act to finish off Moridin because he looks like Rand. Alivia, however, sees what has happened, and finishes Moridin off when Nynaeve will not.

     

    3. Rand, in Moridin's body, has unrestricted access to the TP, and a dark sa'angreal. He uses both to channel the TP, and un-make the bore itself, trapping Padan Fain inside, along with any remaining surviving Forsaken (though I doubt that any of them will survive).

     

    4. Rand survives the Last Battle and lives out the rest of his life in Moridin's body.

     

    Maybe. Or not.

  7. Mashiara, I just want to say that I was a big fan of Despothera's blogs. I was disappointed when he couldn't continue, and so I was also determined not to like your blog as much. "What?!?! Who is this Mashy-chick, and what the heck does she think she's doing to Despothera's blog?!"

     

    You totally won me over, and you did it very quickly. You blog is every bit as good. You come up with extremely cool theories that are completely plausible, and that's not so easy to do this close to the end of the series. I am sorry that I ever doubted you. You ROCK! \m/

  8. Metal Head does have good points.

     

    Yes, on occasion, I manage to come up with the odd good idea here and there. Don't tell anybody, though. Wouldn't want people thinking that I know what I'm doing, then it's nothing but work, work, work all the time :)

     

    As far as what would have happened if Perrin had gone to the Waste with Rand, there are only a handful of changes that would have been certain.

     

    Aram would never have re-encountered Perrin, and might never have given up the Way of the Leaf (or he might have been killed).

     

    Without Perrin becoming Lord of the Two Rivers, Perrin's army would now be smaller, and have much fewer great archers. His efforts to rescue Faile might have failed (heh), which might have either resulted in her death, or else he being taken back to the Waste as gai'shain, along with Morgase. Which means that Morgase would not have been able to serve as judge at Perrin's trial, which means he probably would have fought and probably killed Galad (or the other way around), unless Berelain had stepped in (which she might have done anyway).

     

    Very interesting line of thought. I wonder what else might have been different.

     

    I have won again, Lews Therin.

  9. Ha ha! I am immortalized in WoT Fandom! My moniker has appeared in the Dragonmount Theory blog! It's like James Hetfield calling out my name at a Metallica concert while they're recording a live album. Woot x2! Thank you, Mashiara!

     

    I'm wondering if the intense pull that Perrin and Mat both felt while in Tear was a function of their proximity to Rand, amplified by how desperately Rand needed at least one of them, and but then lessened by their own internal willpower. Here's what I mean:

     

    Both felt Rand's pull while in Tear, and clearly, Rand needed at least one of them for his trip to Rhuidean. The pattern might not have cared which of the two accompanied Rand, so it tugs at both of them. Between the two, Perrin has the willpower to do what he must, mainly because he feels that the mess in the Two Rivers is his doing (Whitecloaks), so he has an extra incentive to resist Rand's pull. Mat would LIKE to leave, but he has no incentive like Perrin does, and at this point in the series, he still was probably the least mature of the three, and didn't have the will to resist Rand's pull. Mat might have gone with Perrin out of a sense of loyalty to his home, but not out of any sense of guilt or obligation like Perrin had going on.

     

    As for the other occasions where one or the other was able to resist Rand's ta'veren pull, and at other times could NOT resist it, my previous "formula" still applies: their proximity to Rand, amplified by the degree of Rand's need at that time, then reduced by their own willpower (or their personal need to resist). In LoC, when Perrin feels Rand tugging at him, Rand's need is extremely great. But Perrin is also very far away from Rand, so the pull isn't so strong. Add in the fact that Perrin had already calmed down events in the Two Rivers, and Perrin has no reason to stay.

     

    The need of the ta'veren is, I believe, the largest factor. In some way, Mat needed Verin in TGS, or really, he needed the note that Verin left for him.

     

    As usual, none of my stuff has references, and is therefore probably wrong, but it's still fun to speculate.

  10. SOME ADULT CONTENT FOLLOWS.

     

    I kind of agree with snowball on this. Saying that Rand is channeling "The Light" is akin to Masema saying that Rand is "The Light made flesh." Neither is literal, even if Masema thinks it is.

     

    Or for a contemporary "real world" comparison, it's like the first time you experience a screaming, earth-shattering orgasm. You might feel like you've had a spiritual experience, but it's really just biochemistry. REALLY GOOD biochemistry. With Rand, he's not literally channeling "THE LIGHT." He's channeling saidin, which is merely one-half of the power that drives the Wheel of Time. It only FEELS like he's channeling "THE LIGHT" because of the ecstasy that comes along with channeling. At least, that's how I always understood it.

  11. @Grifterz - My beef with the comics is that I already PAID for them. Haven't seen them. I'm sure I'll order the EotW graphic novels, but only when the first novel is complete. We're looking at 2 years for each novel, so at this pace, the entire series won't be available in graphic format for 28 years. Quality is paramount, but I think someone can do better than that even while maintaining quality.

     

    As for the rest, you're right. I should have specified that I was referring to media: film, games, etc. I'm really looking at the super high-profile merch.

     

    I appreciate what those other vendors you mentioned are doing. Ta'veren tees is certainly putting out a lot of stuff. Not really my thing, so I haven't bought one, but I'm not knocking them. If I WERE going to buy WoT clothing, I would certainly start there and encourage everyone else to do so as well. Much love for them.

     

    Same with those other vendors you mentioned. I'm not really a jewelry guy, and my wife picks all the art in our place, although I'd like to make a desktop slide show of some artists' work I've seen.

     

    The fan-created stuff, especially the art, has been awesome. I'm just hoping for something a little more immersive, like a movie or a VG. The quality of the comics is really good, I'm just not happy with the pace of release. I think I would have preferred it if they had skipped releasing the comics as individual episodes, and just gone directly to the graphic novel format, even if it took a little longer. WoT has been a best-seller for about 2 decades. I think I got the WoT issue #0 almost 3 years ago, but now the first book is still not completed in graphic format?

  12. Excuses aside, this series has been around for more than 20 years. In all that time, there really has been only one bit of merchandise spun off from it that made me run out and spend money: The first WoT PC game that Legend produced.

     

    The comics looked great, but they're a little hard to get a hold of IRL. And my one attempt to buy them online resulted in a rip-off.

     

    Every single novel since LoC (and maybe before that) has been on the NY Times best seller list, including several at number 1. Do you know how hard that is to do even once? And a novel in the middle of the longest epic fantasy series of our time (perhaps EVER)?

     

    Knowing all of that, I cannot accept any excuse for weak quantity and quality of merchandise releases related to Wheel of Time. This entire franchise is SCREAMING for the Bioware treatment.

     

    @ablacquiere I'm not questioning REE's dedication. I'm questioning their business competence. They clearly WANT to release WoT games, but they have been unable to do so, primarily due to lack of funding. And they also seem unable to secure that funding from outside investors. An ethical company would have sold the rights to another production company that has a better chance of releasing product. But instead, REE has held on to the rights to WoT, knowing full well they cannot fund (much less complete) any of the products that they have promised, and as a result, the fans are the ones who get punished. We get no releases, and when it does appear that one SMALL WoT release might actually happen, suddenly we fans are asked to... pay in advance...? Ex-squeeze me? Can they make these games or can't they? If they can't, then they need to step aside and make room for someone who can.

  13. I'm starting get a little frustrated not only with REE and REG, but pretty much all product development related to WoT.

     

    Item the First: I signed up for a comic book subscription back when Dabel Bros was in the picture. Dabel Bros posted at the time that WoT would be their flagship title. I paid $35 for it. I got 4 comics, then never heard from anyone again. Sent emails, made complaints, I was completely ignored. I don't even know who is producing the comic book now. I see absolutely zero promotion of the WoT comic in comic social circles or in book stores, and find that even many WoT fans don't even know it exists! I actually went to a physical comic store and asked, and was told "We used to carry some of that." How many years has it been since New Spring FIRST appeared as a comic, and we don't even yet have a complete set of graphic novels yet for EoTW. It's been YEARS now. EPIC EPIC fail.

     

    Item the Second: The WoT trading card game died a fiery death. That could have been huge, but... nope. No marketing, no signage at any bookstore that I visited, and barely any mention of it at all that I could find. I only knew about it because I saw it in a comic store while on vacation YEARS ago. You cannot simply pass out flyers at Jordan-Con and expect that will be sufficient advertising. And if they could not afford more sufficient advertising, then they were not ready to release.

     

    Item the Third: The WoT movie. I can understand that funding for a project like this could be tough, but there has been no communication at all except to say "We're working on it." No you're not. WHAT PART of it are you working on today? Anytime Red Eagle gets cornered, they dodge the question, and fail to provide any kind of cogent answer.

     

    Item the Fourth: WoT video game. On the one hand, there actually has been one fairly good WoT video game, produced a few years by by Legend Entertainment. I thought it was well-done for the time, though not canon. It was fun to play, and the different factions were pretty well represented. The Children of the Light were a lot of fun to fight, especially the ones that keep shouting "CONFESS!!" as you try to fight them off. But you would think that WoT would lend itself to (at least) a HUGE RPG style game, on par with Dragon Age, Skyrim, or even Diablo 3. Something with 80+ hours of gameplay. BUT NOOOOO! Red Eagle bought the rights, and then sat on them so that NO ONE BUT THEM would be able to make any money on some crappy mobile app game? I remain thoroughly unimpressed, and underwhelmed.

     

    I'm sure there's more that I'm missing. But the bottom line is that this franchise deserves a whole lot better treatment than it has received from third party promotions. Just off the top of my head, LOTR has made at least 5 video games already that were all pretty good, and successful. If REG, Obsidian, or ANYONE AT ALL, had been truly working full-time on a high end console (or better yet, PC) game for WoT, it would have been done by now, or at least have beta screen-shots and possibly a soft release-date. But REG won't even comment on it unless cornered, and even then their only answer is "We're working on it."

     

    That answer no longer suffices. I move for a vote of no-confidence in Red Eagle's ability to produce anything worthy of this franchise's name.

  14. I really don't think that Rand's (or the Creator's) goal is to break the Wheel, especially not after Rand's epiphany. Seems to me that what Rand finally figured out in Veins of Gold is that love is what makes the Wheel a good thing, worth preserving and protecting.

     

    I really like the idea that the Aes Sedai who made the eye could have left a direct message for the next Dragon. I don't think that is the case, mainly because of the use of pronouns that Mashiara pointed out ("I" vs. "WE"), but it would have been an EXTREMELY cool turn if the story had gone that way.

     

    And I don't think it was the Dark One, because of "I WILL TAKE NO PART." The DO most certainly WANTS to take part, but can only influence and suggest to others. As we've seen, the DO's ability to get others to do his bidding is quite formidable, and hardly constitutes "nothing." He most certainly IS taking part, even if indirectly.

     

    Lews Therin? Maybe. I can't remember if any other characters mention that they heard the same voice Rand did. If they did hear it, then it couldn't be Lews Therin. Only Rand hears LTT. No one else ever has. Feels wrong, though.

     

    I think it has to be the Creator. My biggest question is: "What is the 'IT' the voice referred to?" I suggest that "IT" was Callandor. Every prophecy and foreshadowing we've seen indicates that Rand MUST have Callandor with him at the Last Battle. Perhaps that's what the Creator was looking for. And maybe the Creator will take no part... until the very end of the Last Battle, which would be signified by the presence of the Dragon in the Blight WITH Callandoor. Of course, all of this is total speculation. There's no way to know the true answer until January.

     

    On a side-note: Why couldn't Sammael or Aginor/Osan'gar be resurrected again? Neither was killed with balefire? We know that the DO refuses to bring back Asmodean, but he has brought back Aginor, Balthamel, Lanfear, and Ishamael. All of these except Balthamel are among the most powerful of the Forsaken. Sammael would be worth bringing back, if you think like the DO. So either the D.O. is unwilling to, or is unable to. In either case, my question is the same: WHY? Why is the DO unwilling? Why is he unable? Something to do with Mashadar, maybe? That's the only reason I can think of for not bringing back Sammael, but it hasn't really ever been explicitly stated anywhere. And Aginor is an even bigger mystery. He died for the 2nd time during the cleansing, but Aginor was one of the most powerful channelers who ever lived, nearly as powerful as Lews Therin. This close to the end, if you were the Dark One, wouldn't you want that asset on your team? Anyway, just ramblin'...

  15. @snowball

    Thanks for the right words. You're right about the Aiel/Eye timeline.

     

    One minor point of clarification:

    I agree that Lews Therin probably didn't foresee the taint backlash (although I still think he might have). Lews Therin knew that his plan for sealing the bore was flawed, because he only had saidin to work with during the Strike. He knew the seals would not hold forever, and knew that he was essentially passing the buck to the next Dragon because he really didn't have much choice without the support of the female Aes Sedai. He couldn't seal the bore permanently without them, so the best that he could do was lock the DO away for a few thousand years. That much is certain. But what I'm implying is that if Rand "knows" that he has to break the seals and clear away the rubble, there's a strong argument to be made that Lews Therin knew that would be the case from the moment he decided to go ahead with the Strike. I'm saying that Lews Therin knew the seals would have to be broken one day, in order for the next Dragon to finish what he started. It's been up to Rand (and Min) to determine HOW to finish what Lews Therin started. Even Rand isn't completely sure what that is yet. He only knows what LTT knew, which is that the seals have to be broken.

     

    Where I went off the rails was in claiming that the Eye had something to do with all of that. And with snowball's timeline check, I see now how far off the rails I went.

  16. I'm loving this discussion...

     

    Aielyn - Love the theory. I think you're on to something, but I've wondered for some time if the taint itself was what caused the seals to slowly wear away and break. What if the very act of channeling saidin, and thus the taint that used to come with it, was what weakened the seals. Aes Sedai hunting down men who could channel for 3000 years would certainly push back the expiration date on the seals, because they're reducing the amount of saidin being channeled in the world. But as you say, the seals would eventually wear down because there was still SOME male-channeling going on. So maybe Eye was actually meant to BREAK the seals intentionally. Rand has determined that the seals would have to be broken in order to truly seal up the Bore, which means Lews Therin must have known that'd be the case when he went ahead with his Strike on Shayol Ghul. Perhaps he planned ahead for the next Dragon, leaving a way to ultimately break all the seals when the next Dragon started channeling. Using up the power in the Eye started the countdown. My latest looney theory. That one's got some holes, though, obviously.

     

    As for "How Crazy was/is Rand," I would say that Rand, if he were alive today, would need a psychologist, but not a psychiatrist. Was Rand starting to go off the deep end? Surely. Was he "padded cell" crazy? Almost. Was it CAUSED by the taint? I don't think so. I think it was caused by the pressure he was under, which was self-induced as much as it came from external sources. The analysis of Rand's self-destructive behavior in EotW is spot on, that's early signs of channeling sickness, not taint-induced madness. It was said over and over that many male channelers held off the madness for years, even decades, but here's the important part: Rand is clearly not mad now, and Nynaeve's delving proves that the taint has certainly taken hold, and had been in him for quite some time. But no one has healed Rand's madness yet. Ergo, if he is not already suffering from taint-induced madness, and has not gone through any form of healing that would reduce the impact of the taint's hold on him, then he could not have been suffering from taint-induced madness at any other point in the series. Whatever madness he was dealing with was a function of stress and pressure, like normal people deal with, and not saidin.

     

    Also, I really like the idea of love being the veins of gold that are possibly holding off the madness. This explains a lot more about why the Dragon needed three lovers. He'll carry more of the taint, and thus the pattern gave him 3 times the lovin'. And also Rand as an Aiel gives him a precedent for polygamy in his own time. Love is the shield that slows the taint. I like that a lot.

  17. I am also reminded that Artur Hawkwing himself did most of the talking for the dead heroes. And Tuon is one of his direct descendants. And she married Mat. And he blew the horn.

     

    I wonder what influence this will have on Tuon if she should actually witness Mat blow the horn again, recalling Hawkwing, and then seeing the Dragon issue commands to Hawkwing. That could possibly change a few things about those pesky altered Seanchan Prophecies, don't you think?

     

    As for the Eye, perhaps it served to shield Rand from the taint all this time? Or at least, it did once he accepted his own history. The brilliant lines that Nynaeve sees in Rands mind along with the shadow tendrils... hasn't anyone wondered exactly which veins the chapter "Veins of Gold" referred to? I don't recall that phrase actually appearing in that chapter, except for the title. Perhaps those are the "veins" referred to? I'm probably wrong. I'm often wrong. It's part of my charm.

  18. I think it's mild shame about the kibosh being put on any future WoT stories. I feel there is still some room for stories to be told. There were two other prequels that RJ mused about that I was still very much interested in reading.

     

    One was about Tam al Thor and his story from the time he left Emmond's Field as a young man up to the point where he found Rand and returned home. That would have covered the Aiel War in some detail.

     

    The second was another Moiraine & Lan story, about how they came to find Rand, Mat and Perrin and arrive at Emmond's Field mere hours before the Trolloc attack.

     

    I would definitely buy those books if B.S. writes them, and probably even if Harriet hand-picks another author to write them.

     

    The Encyclopedia will be an interesting book, if it clears up all unanswered questions. I would assume that if there will be no more books after the encyclopedia, then we won't get anymore "RAFO" responses. And we can have our every question answered.

     

    In fact, if Team Jordan (B.S. included), were to embark on a sort of "WoT Q&A" tour (after the last WoT publication), and spend 90 minutes fielding questions from fans in each city without a single "RAFO," I bet that'd be pretty successful. I know I would pay $15 or $20 to attend that. Just a thought, Team Jordan...

  19. Dear Brandon Sanderson:

     

    Thank you for taking this on. Thank you for seeing it through to the end. And most of all, thank you for HITTING IT OUT OF THE EFFING PARK! You are, officially, a literary giant. From this point on, I will read anything with your name on it.

     

    Sincerely,

    Me

  20. There's been a lot of talk about Taim being a "new" Forsaken (dreadlord). But what if Taim himself was turned via the 13x13 method? If that's the case, when would that have happened? Certainly before he joined Rand. Perhaps RIGHT before he joined Rand.

     

    I'm not actually sure this has any bearing on the current state of the plot. He's serving the DO either way, but if he was turned, and is not serving willingly, then perhaps he could be turned back...? And if he can be turned back, then couldn't all the other Asha'Man? Imagine the full and complete strength of a united Black Tower saving Caemlyn, then joining the Last Battle.

     

    Maybe that will be Nynaeve's next big discovery. Da**it what the heck am I going to do with myself when this series is over?!?!

×
×
  • Create New...