On 7/12/2019 at 11:14 AM, DemandredFO said:

Which is among the problems with that interlude also somewhere along the line Mat develops stockholm syndrome. Also one of the themes is the inability of some male characters to hurt women so while he has the quickness and skills to escape, he lacks the will.

You want to see Stockholm syndrome, look among the damane. Mat? I’m not buying it. He lacks the will for sure, but because he’s having lots of sex with a woman he’s attracted to, not because he’s affraid to hurt women. He bundles up Tuon after a bit of a brawl, right? And I’m sure she’s quicker than Tylin, no matter how many hands she seems to have. And later we see him turning Joline(?) over his knee and spanking her till his hand is sore. 

Anyway, my main point is if they include this plot line they can do it in a way that isn’t a #mattoo. I agree the optics aren’t great, but I interpret RJ’s intent as a prolific chaser of women getting some of his own medicine. If anything they’ll have to be more careful at how they portray Mat’s flirtations up to that point.

If they leave the Mat / Tylin relationship in there it wouldn’t be too hard to make it less rapey. As it is, I feel like a lot of that can be explained by Mat as an unreliable narrator. For all his talk about supposedly not being able to stop her, it’s clear he has the quickness and fighting abilities that he would be able to fend her off with next to no effort. It’s also clear that despite complaining about it, he’s a more than willing participant*. I mean, one of the reason Mat is a favorite character is that he’s unable to admit things that are clear to the audience. Just unfortunately in this case it’s not so obvious to the reader. To me I just interpret it in a way that makes me OK with it, and that is that Mat is enjoying the experience immensely (besides the embarrassment of everyone knowing) and just tells himself (and us) otherwise. Portray it that way on screen and it becomes much less problematic. 

*I’m saying all this with the caveat that if this situation was gender reversed, it would absolutely be terrible and none of these arguments would apply. 

I don’t know why people keep saying that Thom + Moiraine was out of nowhere or tacked on at the end. At some point early on I realized that RJ was going to give just about every main character a love interest, and since Lan was obviously going to Nynaeve, who would Moiraine end up with? The clues were pretty obvious. No there weren’t sparks flying, but they’re both mature, calculating people. So if fits their personalities to fall in love with their minds rather than in a fit of passion.

I would prefer that they don’t change anything there, but having Siuan as a lover doesn’t need to affect this.

On 7/4/2019 at 7:08 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

Accent and culture are two different things dude.  RJ mixed several different cultures into all different regions.  

 

But RJ himssaid stated that the two rivers accent was irish.  

 

Andor is british

Cairhien is french

Tear is Spanish.  

Illian is Dutch (though it reads more like a heavy scottish accent on paper)

Seanchan is texan

Aiel is slavic

 

 

But that is all ACCENT.  He then mixed different cultures together. 

 

This is why the Seanchan speak in a texan accent but have a culture based on the Chinese Empire, and why people of Domani use chop sticks but are not asian in culture or in ethnicity.  And why the Shinarans wear samurai armor, but asn't japanese by ethnicity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I alway hear Illian accent more like pirates (thanks to Domon and all his “do be”s and so forth).

13 minutes ago, Jaglover said:

From memory Aviendha spent enough time with Rand to full in love the old fashioned way.  Wasn't she responsible for teaching him Aiel ways?

Yes, and to me her’s was the best falling in love journey of the three. After they hooked up their relationship was quite boring for a long time though. Min was the best relationship, but the leading up to it wasn’t as entertaining. Then there’s Elayne, who I don’t mind as a character but overall has the most boring story arc of any of the secondary characters, including her relationship with Rand. Her relationship with Aviendha is far more interesting. So yeah, I could see them turning that into a romantic thing.

I’ll be surprised if the show addresses the ageless look beyond maybe a comment about not being able to put an age to someone. RJ was great in describing it in words, but it’s something else entirely trying to pull it off visually. It could get expensive (Marvel has done some excellent de-aging CGI, but I doubt it was cheap), or just look terrible, or both. Movie makeup and lighting are great at making people look good. They just need to have Aes Sedai look young for their age, and (more importantly) carry their year and maturity in their acting.

In P&P she played sweet/demure and pulled it off, in GG she was a manipulative sociopath and was nominated for an Oscar for it. So I’m pretty sure she can manage a little mystery if that’s how she’s directed. Rafe mentioned that he was convinced after a conversation with her about the character that she was the one. If you don’t at least somewhat trust Rafe’s judgement on such things, there’s no way this show will be to your liking.

YES! As I said when it was still just a rumour, I’m totally on board with Pike. Plus it just gives me more confidence in the adaptation when the first casting announced is an Oscar-nominated actor.

If the Rosamund Pike news turns out to be true, and she accepts the role, and the role is indeed Moiraine, I totally support it. She wouldn’t have been my first choice, but she’s a talented actor and will no doubt do an excellent job. If you have a problem with this casting, I’m sorry but you’re not going to like the series. It could (and inevitably for some other casting choices WILL) be worse. If any of us want a chance of enjoying this adaptation, we’re going to have to shelf our vivid mental pictures.

Here’s an idea: Cairhienan could be Asian — short, dark hair and eyes. Could work. I don’t know what her acting chops are like, but I could see Bingbing Li as Moiraine. 

Did Berelain and Rhuarc have some love thing going on with each other in Lord of Chaos?

no Rhuarc and Berelain kind of adopted each other, Amys even went as far as to give her the daughters kiss or whatever

I had the impression that Berelain tried her seducing skills on Rhuarc, but he (or someone else) nipped it in the bud pretty quickly and effectively. It never says it, but there's something in they're early dialog that seemed to hint at it. I don't have quotes.

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

 

Yes from the age of Legends. Nothing further explaining exactly what it was then? Just like a middle name?

earning a third name in the age of legends reflected great deeds done for others. i dont think there is all that much about it but it seems to me that the names were bestowed not chosen by the one who earned them. for lews therin the name he earned was telamon which literaly means "the dragon". i like to think he earned it in battle against the shadow, but it might have been before the war as far as i know. but lews therin's title as far as i can tell was lord of the morning, although he once, apparently not at the time of the strike at sg, wore the ring of tamyrlin, and commanded the nine rods of dominion, and lots of people on this site think of the rods of dominion as governors in the regions of the world, and as such it would mean that at one point lews was leader of the world. it would be hard to say king because there is so little information.

 

EDIT: oh and of course lews therin also earned a fourth name: kinslayer

 

He got the third name before, since Lanfear was jealous of it before he even got with his wife. Hmm, didn't know it meant dragon. So was it known he was the Dragon before the battle with the Shadow then? Did they know what the Dragon was? (Since the battle between the Dragon the the DO was eternal, blah blah blah)

Sorry if this has topic has been exhausted already, but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the above. So i guess he was known as the Dragon before the battle with the shadow. But to them I doubt the "Dragon" meant Champion of light. Since they didn't know who the dark one was, they likely didn't know that there was a champion reborn to fight him in each age. It's only since LTT and his title that the term Dragon came to describe the Light's champion. At some point it will be forgotten, along with the knowledge of the DO.

I am doing my first re-read and am on Winter's Heart. Rand had just been triple-bonded, and Min and Avi are out walking and they run into Birgitte. Min acts as if this is the first time she has seen her since Falme (when Mat blew the horn). Weren't they were together in Salidar before Min left with the emissary to Rand? I thought I remember Min and Birgitte playing together with Moghedien's 'children'.

Yeah, that seems to be a mistake. Read footnote 3 on the chapter summary encyclopaedia WoT

In CoT chapter 17, it is stated of Sharina's potential, "some thought she might become as strong as it was possible to be". Is there an established limit to a woman's strength in the OP?

I don't know if that's real or just something aes sedai of the current age think, but i recall cyndane thinking something about alivia when she encounters her when Rand was cleansing saidin. Something about being as strong as herself before the finns held her and thinking that was unlikely. Maybe Lanfear was as strong as it's possible for a female to be (as per a wish from the finns back in the day?), and here's alivia, just as strong. anyway i don't have it in front of me, but i'd look in that chapter of winter's heart.

i don't think we know if Sharina will be that strong though

When was Verin captured and turned to the Black Ajah? Was it before TEOTW or sometime during the series of books?

She wasn't "turned". She was studying them and found herself faced with actually taking the oaths or being found out and killed. That, i believe, is the "mistake" she refers to several times that she made 70 (?) years ago. So it was way before. Someone could probably provide the specific passages.

EDIT: i see Suttree already did

Unicorn City

It's an indie comedy about gamers. Seriously, if y'all aren't gamers you certainly know people who are. It's been gaining accolades at various comedy film festivals all over, and it was just theatrically released in Utah (where it was filmed). Depending on how it does there it may go to other markets as well. Anyway if you get a chance you should for sure see this film. Jon Gries is excellent. The leading lady Jaclyn Hales does an amazing job (won best actress at LA comedy film festival).

Since Rand was bonded by Alanna and then by Elayne, Avienda, Min. If one of these ladies were to die, would he suffer the same type of depression that other Warders do when their Aes Sedai dies and they lose their will to live?

I think the closest thing we have seen is Lan's bond being passed. He was still depressed and turned into death walking, but still having a bond with someone else compelled him to not seek death in avenging Moiraine. and she did it because she knew that was his best chance for survival. So I would say having still 3 remaining bonds (assuming only one dies) would buffer him somewhat from the warder depression.

Question: In tGS we learn that it's the ajah heads who were behind the trend of too-young sitters in both camps. We also learn that they've been working behind the scenes to rule, but that Elaida turned out to be impossible to control, and the rebellion was far more effective than they expected. Correct so far? So my question is how much did they influence? it's probably in there but i don't remember. Did they have to do with the original Elaida coup (set up an amyrlin they think they can control), or just taking advantage of the situation? They sent the too-young sitters? how did they know they'd be raised as sitters? did they send real sitters as well?

I just read the New Spring graphic novel, it's glossary says straight out that the white tower is 600 ft. Now, i don't know if this the graphic novels are considered part of WoT canon, but RJ wouldn't have let them put in completely incorrect info would he?

Another interesting tidbit from NS GN, included in the back are emails from RJ to the artist, etc. Well in one he says that the Aiel average height is 6'2". which he obviously means in OUR foot and inch. So yeah, heights weren't shorter (as per earlier debates in this thread), which means their foot is probably the same as our foot, and it's the inches that are off.

On my current re-read I just past the part where Elayne and Nynaeve get to Salidar, along with Nicola and Areina. Later they try blackmailing egwene about pretending to be Aes Sedai right? well i thought that they came to that conclusion based on Nynaeve and Elayne doing the same thing on their way to Salidar. but just reading it recently, i didn't see anything of them pretending to be AS in front of Nicola. Sure they were taking charge and ordering people about, and channeling a bit, but supposedly in a way no one would notice. So how would they have figured out any of the girls had claimed to be AS, or even gotten enough to base a hunch on?

We keep bringing up the topless towers as if that's the next tallest. But didn't Noal say (somewhere in KoD) that the 7 towers of Malkier were taller than the topless towers (which, btw, sounds like an establishment that could be found in Vegas)? Mat thinks Noal tends to exaggerate, but that's probably just because he's seen so many strange things.

I don't think it would have had to be a black sister, just someone under mild Compulsion. How noticeable that would be I don't know. Would such a task be more complex than those needed for theories 1 or 3? Bear in mind that Brandon apparently indicated that one of these three was correct.

It could also have been audio manipulation -we've seen that the AoL had various ter'angreal to do that and Saerin (?) demonstrated a weave that could do this. So udio manipulation was a known, well-understood and relatively easy thing to do. < snip > The advantage would be that she wouldn't need to grab another AS, black or not.

With such weaves available and known, you'd have thought the AS would have been on the lookout for them. Or were they so hung up on denying the existence of the BA even among themselves that they didn't think to look?

Most AS show very little creativity in what weaves they use in various situations. I'm guessing they never thought of these loopholes just now.

I'd wear a 'Moiraine for Queen' badge, if it weren't for the fact that she seems to dread the possibility more than the very end of the world (well, that's not fair. She never stopped having nightmares about Rand in NStN, she just started having new ones as well).

That was waaaaay back in New Spring. And the main reason she was scared is because she didn't want to be the first Aes Sedai queen in 1000 years. She feared mobs. Since they've already more or less accepted Elayne, that's not a problem.

I actually love the idea of Moiraine taking the throne. And who's better at the Game than Thom? they'd make a stellar ruling couple (i'm not sure what thom's title would be, but it wouldn't really matter). And I thought the main reason she didn't want to be queen way back when was that she wouldn't be able to track down and help the Dragon reborn. Now (maybe) she can help just as much as queen. However i don't think it will happen. the books have been saying elayne over and over, it doesn't seem likely it's going to change now unless the conflict is somehow important to the story.

Oh, I'm pretty sure the conflict will be important. I think Brandon was setting it up with Elayne's disgusting imperialistic tendencies in TOM.

Well here's hoping. I was actually hoping Perrin would steal the western half (well not quite THAT much, but a good portion) of Andor too. But that seems to have resolved itself peacefully. for now.

I'd wear a 'Moiraine for Queen' badge, if it weren't for the fact that she seems to dread the possibility more than the very end of the world (well, that's not fair. She never stopped having nightmares about Rand in NStN, she just started having new ones as well).

That was waaaaay back in New Spring. And the main reason she was scared is because she didn't want to be the first Aes Sedai queen in 1000 years. She feared mobs. Since they've already more or less accepted Elayne, that's not a problem.

I actually love the idea of Moiraine taking the throne. And who's better at the Game than Thom? they'd make a stellar ruling couple (i'm not sure what thom's title would be, but it wouldn't really matter). And I thought the main reason she didn't want to be queen way back when was that she wouldn't be able to track down and help the Dragon reborn. Now (maybe) she can help just as much as queen. However i don't think it will happen. the books have been saying elayne over and over, it doesn't seem likely it's going to change now unless the conflict is somehow important to the story.

WH ch. 25, at the very end Verin is making tea for Cadsuane. This time through it seemed to me Verin was about to poison her. it says she puts away a vial unopened and thinks something like she was glad to finally be sure of Cad. Thoughts? It's probably the same substance she got (from a wise one i think) for sleeping. She was told take too much of it and she'd not wake. poison? or maybe an agent to help (her inferior form of) compulsion?