Unless they actually change it, I think this will be a moot discussion in about 9 days assuming they don't do some annoying cliffhanger.

25 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

There's a real dearth of critical analyses that take into account the differences with the books. Most of the reviews that even mention the books are along the lines of "the show is more diverse, inclusive, and does away with the gender essentialism of the books, therefore it is objectively better in every way."

 

I also noticed that every time there is a controversial change in an episode, ScreenRant comes out with an article saying, "Here's Why That Change Was Incredible and Exactly the Right Choice!!!"

I think the best place for that is forums like these. The books are popular, I doubt that many journalists have read the entire series (especially vs something like LOTR/Harry Potter). Game of Thrones kind of got itself a pass on this too because the series is unfinished which gave the show more freedom, especially as it went on.

As for the critical analysis, my opinion overall is that the show is following the broad strokes of the books. I'm tired of the "hide the dragon game" they are playing. It's a super easy spoiler to find out and in my opinion it's caused the character development of the Emonds Fielders to be less than it could be because they don't want to give too much away that would make it obvious who it is.

On 1/11/2019 at 7:25 AM, tkarrde421 said:

 

It's that very "innocence" that I'm worried might sink the show.  People who are trying to compare this to Game of Thrones are seriously delusional.  Many people joined the GoT band wagon only because of the sex and brutal violence.  I'm not in any way demeaning the actual content of the show (and books), but it's a different audience that will appreciate the almost-Romantic vision of Jordan's pre-industrialized world.  I think many of those people were tricked into liking a fantasy series (perhaps for the first time).  The brilliance of WoT lies in foregoing cheap "jump scares" and "overly mature themes" in favor of creating a living, breathing alt-reality with amazing new rules ... and then proceeds to show us how heroes/villains can cleverly break (or bend) those rules.  For this reason, I feel it's more Harry Potter than GoT.  I'm hoping that the show succeeds without sinking to artificially-darkening the series.

On 1/11/2019 at 8:30 AM, Lethira said:

I really hope that they don't go down the road of overly sexualising/presenting us with wall to wall carnage.  It is a difficult balance to strike when you have stakeholders wanting the best results for their money.  

 

I hope they keep Robert Jordans version of swearing -blood and ashes! Fishguts! etc. for me, that is a staple of the world building. 

One of the things,  IMHO, that added to the cultures of the world RJ created was that different countries had very different views of things when it came to sex & nudity.  I think that should be preserved. The Two Rivers was ULTRA conservative in this regard. When  the group first got  to Sheinar, they were all shocked by the bathing practices. This helps distinguish Sheinar and also acted as something that kept them from being a generic super honorable soldier culture from peasant to lord.

Looking through the series sex is used a lot, but also in a much more subtle way. Just because it wasn't on screen doesn't mean it wasn't there. This is especially the case once Rand accepts and truly takes up the mantle of TDR. Berelain and many of the High Lords/Ladies try to find ways to seduce him. Lady Colavare in Cairhein tried to do the same. It's even implied that that's what the Wise Ones were up to with Aviendha. A big part of who Rand is and how his personal morals and honor works is that he never gives in. On the flip side, chasing women is a big part of who Mat is... and let's not forget about Tylin.

So just because the books aren't filled with sex scenes doesn't mean that things weren't stronly implied to be going on off screen. RJ saved his on screen nudity/sex for more key moments like Rand/Aviendha.

All in all, just sticking to what's on the pages will sexualize things plenty. The only thing that's tricky about it in WoT is that it doesn't show up in the first book much at all, which is somewhat opposite from shows/movies in that it's usually there in the first few episodes to help get people watching.

On 11/24/2018 at 8:30 PM, Cillian said:

 

Moiraine (and Lan) are only mysterious from the POV of the Emond's Fielders. She can't remain that mysterious if she's the central character.

 

WoT is an ensemble series, sure, and Moraine can get plenty of screentime, but at the center of that ensemble is Rand, Perrin & Mat followed by Egwene & Nynaeve. The Emond's Field crew are the audience surrogate into this world, their community has been basically cut off from the outside world from the outside world for 2 thousand years. It is through those 5 that we really discover this world, not Moiraine. The 5 are the heroes going on a journey, Moiraine is the stranger come to town. Making her the central character would be a mistake, IMO.

 

 

Also, It's been about 6 and a half years since I've posted here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it matters as much in an on screen format. Because of a distinct lack of a point of view vs a book it's possible for someone to be a central character AND mysterious. If they just follow the first several chapters Moiriane show's she can be both a "good guy" and morally grey. For instance, her and Lan are very real when talking to each other when Rand approaches to ask her help in healing Tam. The conversation they have with Rand while doing the healing is also down to earth. Then a few chapters later she destroys the ferry and pretty much says she'd kill all of them if it meant stopping the Shadow.

She's very much the leader of the group between Emond's field and Shadar Logoth. My only concern would be if they show too much of her motivations/intentions. Just like the books the possibility that one of the boys may be TDR isn't even brought up by anyone until the epilogue. Even then it doesn't initially occur to Rand that he isn't anything more than a man that can channel. 

On 11/9/2018 at 1:05 PM, Maedelin said:

 

That's a really good idea, Dex.  I'm not all that invested in most of Rand's relationships for many reasons that are not necessary to get into here, so I'd have no complaints about it, though some shi

For most intents and purposes, this is how it was in the books. I don't think Rand ever really spent time with more than one of them at a time for any length of time... and he definitely wasn't "with" more then one at a time.

Really the only odd thing about it, from the point of view of our culture, is that all 3 were not only OK with it but friends with each other.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:49 PM, David Taulbee said:

Mayim Bialik for Verin Mathwin

Really good choice. 

On 11/4/2018 at 7:53 AM, Occams whiskey bottle said:

 

They can keep pretty much the entire relationships intact with minimal changes. Egwene and Rand become more like a brother/sister relationship, while Elayne and Aviendha could be close friendships. The pregnancies could either be written out or explained as one night stands. Perhaps Rand takes on more of Mats personality and is more of a promiscuous ladies man. 

They could still keep them as 3 lovers, just not 3 ongoing simultaneous lovers. Relationships end amicably and they remain friends/allies.

On 10/13/2018 at 1:16 PM, Agitel said:

I will be thinking of specifics more, but I'm okay with significant condensing, so long as the tone and character development is on point. I can imagine season two ending in the Stone of Tear, for example.

 

I was fine with what was originally proposed for the Dornish plot in A Game of Thrones, for example, but felt that what we got was just terrible television and didn't feel remotely correct.

Some specifics... let's just talk Eye of the World for now but chapters like the dinner at the Grinwell's while great character building in a book are bloat in a show. A lot of the parts where Rand/Mat are on their own could be cut/condensed to a montage to bring them to Four Kings. 

On a series level... I'd be fine without the Coramoor plotline. The Rebel AS politics got very tedious and probably could be simplified once they pick Egwene and just back her up. That would get to the tower siege sooner. The Perrin/Bornhold story was always frustrating. Faile's time while captured wasn't exactly exciting either.

Looking at the books... 1 through 5 I think translate fairly well. 6-14 cover much less time and is where most of the TV editing would be needed. Those you'd want to focus on the high points. So in my breakdown I'd do Seasons 1-4 would cover the first 5 books and mostly following the books because the main characters are all in a few groups. After that... when everyone is split and basically has their own stories is when you could condense it.

S5 would be LOC/CoS.

S6 would include the following main events:

Rand cleansing Saidin

Matt/Tuon up to the point where she rejoins the Seanchan.

Tower Seige up through the Egwene being captured.

Perrin's story up through the Faile rescue.

Elayne's Caemlyn battles.

S7:

Rand to VoG

Matt to Moiriane rescue

Perrin\Galad unifying white cloaks

Egwene through Mesaana

S8:

The last battle.

On 10/7/2018 at 9:48 AM, Elgee said:

One of the best realistic suggestions for Thom Merrilin that I've come accross, is Neil Patrick Harris. Thom has to be able to do all kinds of acrobatics, take down a Fade in a knife-fight, etc. The old favourites to play him are just that - too old.

 

 

This is a really good idea.

28 minutes ago, Maedelin said:

Lucy Lawless has played a redhead before, maybe she could be Morgase?  It'd be a lovely refreshing role for her, a little more passive than some she has played in the past.

 

Or, instead of Lucy Lawless there (She could be a Wise One, like Amys instead!) Polly Walker could be Morgase.  Or a Wise One.  Either would work, because both are great actresses.

I'd say both are a little to old to be Morgase... she's like mid-late 30's in the books. Both of them are 50+.

18 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

Seems to me that most of the things that are mentioned on the list simply can not be cut. actually the only things that might be reasonable are"

 

"

number of AS is limited to <10

number of Fs is limited to <3

number of WOs is limited to <3

 

I do not think that the numbers actual numbers are accurate but limiting then actual number of AS,Fs or WO's that actually get air time vs those that appear in the books is a likely neccessity. 

 

 

So there are lots of ways to limit all 3 of these organically. In a book where you're not limited in any way in number of characters or screen time you have a ton of freedom. 

That said... let's take one example and look at the Wise Ones. Does Egwene need 4 Wise One dreamwalker mentors or could that be done with Amys alone? Doesn't mean that there aren't 4 and that the other 3 are cut completely just that the screen time is really only devoted to Amys.

The FS can definitely done in a similar fashion in that they could be condensed into fewer characters... as in some of them doing double duty. 

AS... the best way might be for their to be fewer Ajahs... Blue/Grey are fairly similar. So are Brown/White. Yellow/Green go together well too... Really the only outlier their is the Red.

There's been a lot of talk on this in the "Other Meda" board before the show became official, but there is a significant amount of trimming just from the show being a visual medium. I'd say that you're probably about 1.5 books per season if it just focused on the main characters and their through lines. Possibly 2 books if they do 13 Episode seasons.

On 10/2/2018 at 3:30 PM, Songstress said:

 

I read the Q&A along with some follow up exchanges on Twitter, and I expect Rafe Judkins wants to be rather faithful to the books  (within the usual constraints of adapting to a different medium and having to work with time and budget limitations).

 

I can see this summary being a part tease to keep non-book fans from knowing which of the Emonds Fielders is the Dragon Reborn for a bit longer, and part emphasis on Moiraine's role in the first book.

 

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Book 1 is from Rand's perspective,  Moiraine's quest is pretty integral to the story, and focusing on her role in the first season/first book doesn't strike me as changing the story at all, really. 

If you're referring to the summary's put out by the press it may just be their simplified interpretations based on talking to Rafe and not being familiar with the books.

My belief is that for all of the long lived, major characters you'd want unknowns. I'd imagine if this show is successful it's going to go for at least 7 years. If you're going to incorporate some bigger names I'd leave them for smaller roles that have a big impact yet would be killed off (Ishy/Baalzamon, Lanfear)... Think Sean Bean as Ned Stark.

As much as Sam Elliot is the spitting image of what I have in mind for Thom, I don't think he's a good choice. He's 74, so his longevity may be an issue. Plus, his southern drawl doesn't quite fit the character and I've never seen him in a role that didn't feature it.

I'd also potentially rule out the following:

Any actor with a semi-promenent role in GoT. Love GoT and it's really well cast... but I'd hate the show to feel too much like GoT by having the same actor portray a similar character in WoT. IE... we don't want Emilia Clarke to play Moiriane even though she'd be good for the part with her natural hair color.

Could have also been some sort of innate bond that they created for themselves before they really knew what they were doing.

On 4/11/2018 at 7:53 AM, Rednalloc said:

 

If that's the case we can only hope that Jeff Bezos personally champions it because I can't see it making any business sense for them to green light both this and LOTR and they have already committed to 5 seasons of LOTR...

So here is are a couple of scenarios of business sense. From a production standpoint between something like LOTR and WOT, many of the assets could have use for both shows. IE... similar sets, similar locations, similar stunt/special effects etc... So think of it this way: LOTR shoots in New Zealand from Jan - June. WoT shoots July-Dec. Different actors/directors/writers for each show but set construction, costume design, etc... could all be shared between two.

From an audience perspective it could also make sense. Look at what AMC does with Walking Dead/Fear the Walking Dead. Very similar shows, but aired different times of the year so the audience's attention almost always has some flavor of Walking Dead feeding it. Obviously streaming is different but binges a year apart probably don't do much for maintaining subscriptions

I don't necessarily think it has to be one of those major networks. With so many of them starting to offer their own streaming services there are more and more players. Even the big 3 (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu) streaming services are aware of this and that's why they are investing in their own programming. TV in general is moving more towards a subscriber model than an advertising model so this could still appeal to a lot of "networks" in order to bolster subscribers. 

I thought he also gave some good hints on what Rand does at the end of book 9. I might be mistaken though... I know he gave some good indications on clearing away the rubble.

The body swap shouldn't change anything (as said, the ability to channel comes from the soul) and he was still able to channel and use the one force to rebuild the DO's dungeon even after he wove the pattern.

What if the ability was taken from him hy the creator to grant him a new life in peace without Asha'man constantly searching for the powerful channeler that doesn't seem to need any training?

As for his children's abilities, I don't know if that was special in any way. Selene stated that Rand might be able to stay in the oneness forever (it was also hinted that Rhavin did the same thing so it is probable that every channeler could do this is he/she was skilled enough).

My point with the body swap is that it was something unique, originating from the crossed balefire streams. So while the swap itself didn't directly cause him not be able to channel it may have had something to do with it. Maybe because Moridin/Ishamael died in the process along with Rands body? Who knows. RJ is probably the only one that could answer that question.

I didn't get that Rand burned himself out/was severed. I think that it had to do with whatever he did manipulating the pattern and/or the body swap. So it wasn't like he was truly severed. He was just unable to channel any longer... and given his new pattern manipulation ability he probably doesn't need to.

someone tell me a dragon shows up at some point so we dont have all this alluding to  'this strange animal on the banner' 

There are no dragons in WoT, or at least none in the timeline covered by the story.

I'd have to say that one of the best and worst things about the story are the Aes Sedai.

The first one we meet is Moiriane, who's cool, competent, and completely dedicated to her cause. She's the good guy that's willing to do grey things in order for the Light to succeed against the dark. While she made her share of mistakes, she set's the tone for what I envision the ideal Aes Sedai should be.

Then as we meet more Aes Sedai and learn more about their culture things start to unravel. They politic, squable, manipulate, etc... They do this so much that in a very human way they become much less than they think they are and that they should be.

So... the parts that I least like about the series are the pages of mostly dull bickering between the various agendas of both the WT and the rebels. However, I also found their behavior very realistic in how large organizations tend to get bogged down.

well i'm sticking with her being black ajah. red herrings abound but i like that theory

She might have also just been someone that was desperate, greedy, or amoral. That was during the breaking and pre-white tower, pre-oaths. As we've seen from Aes Sedai in the current timeline many of them (non-BA) aren't necessarily good. Many are overly ambitious, greedy, power hungry, conceited, selfish, and/or just plain stupid.

At any rate, that AS could have been a dark friend or just someone that was just selfish. At any rate, she wasn't named and was only in that one scene so it's anyone's guess.

Like others, there are many. Here are some of my favorites:

ToM when Rand shows up at Maradon and saves the day... seeing this through Min's eyes and hearing the other Ashaman there being in awe of his power and number of weaves he's handling.

The "I have won again, Lews Therin" sequence in TGS stands out too.

Perrin rescuing the TR captives from the White Cloaks in TSR

Mat riding into the battle of Cairhien.

Not reading the girls you'll miss out on some subtle but very funny Nyneave humor. Especially in book 4 and 5.