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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

wcbrooks

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Posts posted by wcbrooks

  1.  

    The way you win a battle is more important than winning a battle - why do you think every army in the world and through out history was to protect there homeland..yes it would be easy for them "nuke it" and move on...but Caemlyn is a symbol to the people...they would fight as much if they lost their morale and they definitely would lose the Last Battle anyway. Think as a solider you just see your home, your future, your life and family destoryed would you really like to move on at full energy and help another nations homeland, as a solider you would be saddened and depressed and lost hope....Plus that would resort to the Dark Ones tactics and that is what they are opposing and Rand has tried to create.

     

    Would there be guaranteed victory if they did "nuke" Caemlyn and helped Lan? Then you would have 2 corrupted General Captains leading an army (which would be harder to track and prove there mistakes) and I think the Dark one would then move his forces to counter this and been so close to the Blight etc easier... 

    The way you win a battle is immaterial if losing it means the end of existence.

     

    Not when it can cost you everything on this earth, stravation, raping, pillaging, more endless killing for survival, diseases...what then is the point of living...to live that life is even worse.

  2. And speaking of the Waygate, and The Ways... Did Machin Shin decide to take the month off to go lighten-up in Disneyland? How did all those dambed Shadowspawn get through in the FIRST place???

     

    haha it might have...I was wondering was it just so focused on Rand and did not care about anything else...I remember I discussion around 'after the Taint was cleansed what will happen to the Ways' - did anything came out from that disussion  

  3.  

    Someone here suggest to get the Channelers to oliberate Caemlyn - you never want to that it will lose morale and would you like to basically destroy your know Town - if something is lost you can take it back, if something is burned then you can rebuild and regrow....but once people morale has gone then they lose hope and won't know what they are fighting for.

     

    You know what really hurts morale? Losing the Last Battle. Oh, and also loosing an army of trollocs on half of Andor and Caemlyn. I don't think there's a soldier alive that would prefer to keep a city infested with trollocs intact in exchange for their lives and tens of thousands of their comrades. Nuke the waygate, go fight somewhere else... say perhaps saving Lan's army from destruction. Might even have saved Fal Dara and Fal Moran. How was that on morale btw?

     

    The way you win a battle is more important than winning a battle - why do you think every army in the world and through out history was to protect there homeland..yes it would be easy for them "nuke it" and move on...but Caemlyn is a symbol to the people...they would fight as much if they lost their morale and they definitely would lose the Last Battle anyway. Think as a solider you just see your home, your future, your life and family destoryed would you really like to move on at full energy and help another nations homeland, as a solider you would be saddened and depressed and lost hope....Plus that would resort to the Dark Ones tactics and that is what they are opposing and Rand has tried to create.

     

    Would there be guaranteed victory if they did "nuke" Caemlyn and helped Lan? Then you would have 2 corrupted General Captains leading an army (which would be harder to track and prove there mistakes) and I think the Dark one would then move his forces to counter this and been so close to the Blight etc easier... 

  4. My Opinion about the Battle Strategy ------

     

    One thing Channelers have limits they will get tired using that much of the one power and not all Channelers can create gateways or one big enough for an army.  and then you also have to keep some aside for healing. you do not want to waste a valuable resources just to move a huge force.

     

    which leads into having a huge force from different nations in one area it can cause problems in both coodinations and maneuvers and supplying the army with new weapons or repairing weapons or even food is also harder.

     

    To break it down into 4 battlefronts is better for a short term solution. hold off 3 and eliminate one and keep going. Caemlyn is a logical choice as if you destory them they won't spread out and attack nations whose army has gone, create a base in your home territory, and won't attack from behind and join the force either at Tarwins Gap or Kandor. Also with Kandor and Tarwins Gap been close to the Blight they will have an endless supply of reinforcements

     

    Someone here suggest to get the Channelers to oliberate Caemlyn - you never want to that it will lose morale and would you like to basically destroy your know Town - if something is lost you can take it back, if something is burned then you can rebuild and regrow....but once people morale has gone then they lose hope and won't know what they are fighting for.

  5. Rand should make the people at his schools focus on the problem of food spoilage. But like all autocrats, he has little concern for the every day needs of tme people. He sees grand visions of a return to the way things used to be. With greater centralization, we see greater innovation, but this innovation is forced on people. Very few people care about recapturing old technologies when the demands for living day to day are so pressing. The more you remove the individual's desires government, the more government can focus on steam engines and the like.

     

    Nice point - didn't Rand also spot a ploughing machine that can do four or fine at a time?? sorry no reference just a vague memory

  6. Mr. Ares: yeah, I'm not really concerned with the perception of randlands population, they have less schooling and no scientific method, little mathematical modeling, that we saw growing up, exponential growth graphs etc... they may not have understood how broken their population growth was, we do and it is not subtle.

    Their population should have been growing, but it fell dramatically.

    It fell dramatically over the course of 1,000 years. That's precisely why I term it subtle. Yes, it has a very noticeable effect over a prolonged period, but it needs a long period to become apparent. Over a short period, it is not noticeable. A definition of subtle: "fine or delicate in meaning or intent; difficult to perceive or understand". The population decline is difficult to perceive. It requires centuries of information.

     

    I apologize for not reading every post, but this technological stagnation (and really economic balance in my opinion) is the premise of a lot of fantasy. I tend to believe that social and technological stagnation is a necessary evil of magic. If you think about it, what reason is there to develop complicated medical science when when our best medical efforts in the real world pale in comparison to those of Nynaeve and the Yellow Ajah.

    The Yellow Ajah are not always available. Only 1% of the population can channel at all, not all of them will become channelers, not all of them have great strength, not all of them will have any noteable degree of skill with Healing (some strong AS lack enough Talent in Healing to Heal a bruise). Unless useful magic is readily available, there is an incentive to find non-magical solutions to problems.

     

    While I appreciate these points, I don't believe they would matter to the population of the world at large. Almost every single disease has already been conquered. What is the point of more medical advancement. Medicine akin to our in such a world would really only be seen as the advil of the curative world. It would only be useful for a quick fix. Almost every kind of terminal disease is curable with a pilgrimage to the White Tower in the North and Central of the continent. Those in the South can simply go visit a Ring member near them. I believe this would be similar to the doctor shortage we currently have. Because we suffer from a dearth of doctors, to cure most serious recurring disease takes months. But most people don't see too much with it because we know that if we had a truly large problem, we could get it fixed with enough perseverance. This kind of mindset is endemic.

     

    I really think that it would affect a magic using world in a serious way causing lethargy and general malaise with regard to technology. The best and easiest way to advance technology is to identify magic users and utilize them to their fullest the way the Seanchan empire does. Why create a bulldozer when you can leash a woman who can do much the same thing and more. Further, this tool won't break down for 300+ years. In the world of the Wheel of Time, I believe that the Seanchan solution is the most likely progression.

     

    Yellow Ajah arrogance - I remember reading that they were the only really useful Ajah (they thought not me) - So over time all the major diseases are cured and nothing else to cure hence the weaves are the same, over time they become arrogant and closed off from anything and only cure major things and let the Wisdom/Wise Women etc to cure the colds, with herbs etc and to keep them informed if any other major epidemic happens. This a reflective theme in the real world as Medivial doctors used leeches to cure everything and anything....they was no other way to cure anyone...then after centuries of time new ways developed.

     

     

    I agree that they have replaced technology with Magic (as with most fantasy themes) because of that very reason, why would they create a bulldozer when you can have a channeller leashed to do it...except that the some of the general popualtion (non magic users) must be thnking it and doing it...as in evidence in the Schools Rand started, and even in the Age of Legends - Jo-cars or Sho-Wings - why create them if magic was all around and gateways could be created???

  7. Benevolent:

    In Two Rivers, I think only the distant mountains have taboo, and the western farms have stony soil, but if you recall Perrin's tours of the the center of two rivers, it all seems very fertile and sparsely populated.

     

    Empire collapse... not really sure I have ever heard much about this, perhaps Mayan city collapse, or fall of Roman empire, the people didn't disappear, Greece and Italy continue to exist, they are not vacant lands!? There are only theories about the Mayan city collapse, but I think people just left the city to live in villages, I don't think people disappeared.

     

    There are definitely places people would not want to go, but there are so many places where people can go.

     

    A group of people can from a city...disappear....there are parts or Italy and Greece that no one or little farms...Greece did not disappear the Greek States merged as a single country, Rome the city burnt and was piilaged the people dispersed and other tribes eg Vandals, Goths, Visgoths lived there. Rome then became Italy and became a papacy state. Before there were the Mayan Cities they have found other big Cities underneath from another time and another group of people....so cities do come and go and the people either leave or merge with the new people.

  8. wc brooks: are you saying abortions and contraception are the tools of Shaitan?

    WW population were not based factual realities, but psycological realities, people had low motivation to have children during a war, but after the war, the relief and blooming hope encourages increased birth rate.

    wars depress economies, becasue people spend less. and there are fewer businesses are open so the jobs market can be even worse. increases in population grow the economy, increased demand.

     

    HAHA - funny

    abortions and contraception are not tools for Shaitan - and they have every little to do with diminshing populations and low mortality rates

    WW populations - it has nothing about low motivation, they were busy doing something else...and you will find that in the recreation countries - where soliders were sent for R&R - there is a major spike for baby births in those times.

    and it is not about the relief and blooming hope encourages birth rate - its about the majority of men returning home.

     

    There is not a WW now but most countries are having a low mortality rate and some in the negative.

     

    and war does not depress an economy (I think you are talking about an individual level but not an overall picture) before the WWs there was the depression beforehand, lets take a look at WW2 in America before WW2 low jobs and no money, they decided to enter the war men leave for war the gaps in jobs are filled by woman etc therefore maintain production levels instead of the majority goes to companies, they are serviced to the government and used in during war time - companies make money, few companies (that last) mean that companies can increase there price and decrease there costs, fewer people means more skilled or unskilled jobs means people get a good pay (for those times). and increase in population means higher unemployment levels and means more people then jobs so pay is less. After the WW many countries and companies around the world both allies and axis were boosted.

     

    There are many books and examples to reflect this

     

    Mr. Ares: yeah, I'm not really concerned with the perception of randlands population, they have less schooling and no scientific method, little mathematical modeling, that we saw growing up, exponential growth graphs etc... they may not have understood how broken their population growth was, we do and it is not subtle.

    Their population should have been growing, but it fell dramatically.

     

    you can not directly compare the real world and randland - but expontential growths and other mathematical modeling have been around for centuries - but go back 1000 years and ask them if they know that the popualtion is decreasing they have no comparsions for the last 40 years (and randland does not either) and back when mathematical formulas and models were done there was no school like we have today...and i think its the reflection back that makes it not subtle but at the time you do not see it...did it fell dramatically i thought it was a decline

  9. not going to get into a big argument over everything but I shall provide my 2 cents about the population decline :)

     

    Look at the world today alot of countries have a low or declining population and a low or declining population birth (mostly Western countries) the only thing that improves population growth within them is immigration.

    Randland has little immigration between countries that I have read about.

    Also there is a link between Western Countries, major cities, lifestyle, work life, persoanl choices and population growths - basically saying there is no 1 answer to the question

     

    now my 2 cents about economic stagnation - is not caused by war or nobility...Economic stagnation is determined by 'trade' and has a life cycle of booms and depressions (Randland has had no boom) - for example in reagrds to war; before each World War the world was entering into a depression lack of trade and investment among the nations a war happens decreases population - so same amount of jobs avaliable (more in fact) but with less people fighting over them, with a surge in growth and a nation fighting a war - innovation and creativity happens (alot of the stuff we use was or was thought about or created during war time example the internet, the jeep, the red cross etc etc the list can go on). The effects of this creates a a boom period in a life cycle and carries over after war

     

    again my 2 cents about thing in this question and again debatable no basically serves as not an answer just an opinion abuot things and hey there is more then one reason to the question :)

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