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Entreri

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Everything posted by Entreri

  1. "I agree with the rankings, but don't think there's a huge skill-gap." I would say there is a large enough skill gap. Keep in mind that Lan has decades of experience and was born with a sword in his hands. Lan has been wrecking Blade masters, Fades, Aiel and Trollocs before Gawyn was born. Lan destroyed Toram Riatin with barely a mark on him. Riatin was nearly equal to Rand, who is better than Galad...Galad is better than Gawyn. However, that by itself will not determine a fight every time (in the real world, see GSP vs. Serra I, WoT Lan vs. that other Malkier blade master 20+ years ago). A fight is "100% mental" (quoted from Fedor). Others would say it is 90%+ mental. In comparison to Lan, Gawyn is very weak (mentally), very soft (physically), and slower (see Lan practicing and Egwene et al watching in amazement). Lan would kill Gawyn in under a minute. He would give no quarter and would not toy like Valda. While fighters generally peak at 30-35 years of age, I do not ever see Galad or Gawyn catching up to Lan's level. Both of them are too soft and weak relatively speaking.
  2. I agree with your rankings but the 2 blood knives were def going all out at the end. Yes at the end and that is why Gawyn was getting his rear end handed to him after that. He would have definitely died if not for taking out that 'lamp'. Lan would be soooo much better than Gawyn given the fact that Rand > Galad and that Galad > Gawyn. If Gawyn last more than a minute with Lan I would be shocked.
  3. The important part is that Gawyn went 2/2 against Sleete and another Warder at the same time. That is a pretty big deal. If Sleete on his own could beat Lan, but couldn't beat Gawyn even with help, Gawyn seems stronger. The catch, as pointed out, is that Lan vs. Sleete was a long time ago, and it makes sense for Lan to have gotten stronger, to say nothing of more experienced. We know he became focused on becoming as strong as possible after Moiraine appeared to have died. You are completely discounting the effect that age has on Sleet. Without almost any exceptions in the real world (i.e. Randy Couture of the UFC), age slows down a fighter a lot and one becomes weaker. WoT exception is Lan and Rhuarc. Lan was the best in the world, and has only gotten better after the death of Moraine. Lan would destroy both Galad and Gawyn at once.
  4. Interesting point on the ta'averen affect. We will have to find out in AMoL if that is indeed the case or if it is something else altogether. I wonder if Ishamael has the other sa'angreal hidden away for a rainy occasion...He had a very impressive collection of OP items and had nearly 3000 years on and off to collect them. We saw that even Lanfear had a near sa'angreal on her...which Moraine now has.
  5. The best blade master in the world with 100% certainty is Lan. Lan after losing Moraine went to another level, I put it beyond Jearom. Why? Simply put RJ said so. RJ said that Lan was better than Rand. Subsequently he said Rand (before losing his arm) was better than Galad. Sanderson said Lan > Galad > Gawyn. Lan > Rand > Galad > Gawyn Q.E.D As for the blood knife, it is essentially equal to 1 Fade. If the 2 blood knives were going full out on Gawyn he would be dead. Certainly Gawyn is more than a match for 1 Fade. Gawyn > Blood Knife = Fade Gawyn is an elite blade master, one of the top 10 in the world without a doubt, if not top 5.
  6. RJ said Rand (before losing arm) is better than Galad and that Lan is better than Rand. Sanderson said Galad is better than Gawyn. So the greatest blademasters in the world: Lan > Rand (with all limbs) > Galad > Gawyn Only one that may be a match for Lan is Mat...before losing his eye that is. His skill, with all those memories is probably somewhat close to Lan, he is very strongly ta'avern and his luck makes up for almost everything he lacks.
  7. Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much. Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really? Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now. I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made. Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength. Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :) But she hasn't been reborn yet. She was transmigrated by the DO straight into a new body. So it is possibly still in the temporary phase. This. It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up), so in a sense the DO interferes with the souls progression to whatever the afterworld/waiting to be re-spun out anew is. Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually, and obviously when souls are naturally respun they have no memories of what happened in former lives etc (The Dragon aside of course). Clearly transmigration short circuits the natural order of things, so Lanfears soul never gets to the afterlife to be healed. As far as what the Finns do- there is no reason to believe that because they can drain they can also enhance. You could bash somebody's head in so that their brain is damaged and they can't think well... that doesn't prove that you can do something else that would make their brain work better. I go with the part not being reborn, thus Lanfear is still weaker. Ok with most of the rest. However, once balefired, permanently erased from the Pattern from what I gathered.
  8. "Rand isn't using any power to affect apples and so forth, its some manifestation of Ta'veren imo." What about Perrin and Matt? Or other ta'avern in history? As if this is based on ta'avern strength, then what about LTT? I did not read anything on LTT being able to do what Rand can. When DR was remade in Dragonmount. I go with what someone on here said, a mini-Creator like ability. So I would say it is his mere presence that affects reality without it being ta'avern. If that makes sense.
  9. The problem I have with Rand's effect being ta'avern is that neither Mat or Perrin effect the Pattern this way. The Dragon was remade and he is something greater than he was in AoL.
  10. Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much. Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really? Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now. I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made. Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength. Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)
  11. And yet in Lanfear/Cyndane's own POV in WH she thinks to herself that Alivia was stronger than her before the Finns held her. She was only stronger because she had an angreal, but I doubt that Lanfear herself was mistaken when saying that Alivia was stronger. And significantly weaker is speculative. We know that she was weaker but we also know from Graendal's POV that Cyndane is still stronger than Graendal, which was rare even in the AoL. So Cyndane is still very strong. "The girl was stronger in the One Power than she [Graendal] herself! Even in her own Age, that had been uncommon among men, and very rare indeed among women." I speculate "very rare indeed" to mean more like 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 than 1 in 1000 or 1 in 100. "Indeed" really emphasizes how rare it is to find someone who is stronger than Grandeal. "At first he had been sure that Cyndane was Lanfear reincarnated, until Mesaana told him the girl was weaker than Lanfear". So certainly is merely weaker than Lanfear and not by much, likely close to Lanfear's strength. "Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling? Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability." So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength. "She [Alivia] was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn had held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too." "An angreal, TOO": It has been speculated that Lanfear was enhancing her natural strength with a very weak angreal all the time. "Hiding he strength"... That Cyndane is now Lanfear's actual natural strength level. Alivia is likely as strong as Lanfear at her natural non-angreal enhanced level.
  12. No offence, but this is not a very good theory. "LTT and Ishamael were equal in strength but not in skill. [...] Demandred was very close on both fronts to LTT." From what I remember, Ishy was close behind LTT in strengh, not skill. I would even go further and say that it is logical to say that most people in AoL that channeled had somewhat equal skill (besides special talents that is). The speculation on 1/2 mil of trollocs is not bad one, i think, but I would argue that there is a lot more than 1/2 mil. Rand has how many Aiel (at least 250K from what I remember if not a lot more than that). I'd say 1 to 2 Aiel vs. Trollocs is an easy win for Aiel, IMO. So, my guess, in order for light to be pressed hard, there has to be around 3-5 mil of Trollocs coming from the blight, if there to be a direct confrontation of armies. There is a differential in skill, even in AoL...which would make logical sense since in the real world, even with 7+ billion people there are talent differentials even at the elite level. We know that there is a female maximum for OP strength: Lanfear saying "no woman could be stronger". So there would be a male maximum. Obviously the Creator would choose the strongest to be his champion = LTT, same goes for the Dark One, Ishamael. With sooo many channelers in AoL, it is very likely that LTT = Ishamael in strength. With that many channelers people of equal strength will arise. Some speculation on numbers: Randland probably has around 10,000 channelers (WT 2000-3000, Aiel&Kin&Winfinders =1000-2000, Asha'man= 1000, damane=3000-5000, Shara=1000-3000), population of WoT, with mainland Seanchan & Shara at most 100-200 million. AoL probably had 1,000,000+ channelers with a population over 10+ billion. Greater proportion of channelers in AoL because the males were not culled and likely they caught almost everyone with the ability to channel. Keep in mind for the real world, population projection is 9 billion by 2040. AoL tech I would think was about 100 years more advanced than we are now. With that kind of massive channeler population you are bound to find channelers that are equal in Power, even at the top tier. Speculation on size of armies in Randland: The forces of Light can probably field an army of 1-2 million. Aiel 100,000-150,000; Borderlanders 250,000-300,000 (the ones left behind), Andor (including Cairhein) 100,000, Tar Valon 100,000, Tear 75,000, rest of nations say 200,000-250,000, Seanchan 500,000-600,000, Shara 200,000-300,000? If the Sharans become involved. Trollocs and everything else in the Blight will field at least 10 times that number, similar to the Trolloc War. 10+ million.
  13. Source? Source? #1 some speculation, however is pretty evident from the books and the Guide. #2 speculation. #2: Ituralde is one of five great captains. Even Bashere is impressed at what he has accomplished and Rand is amazed. Keep in mind that Ituralde completely annihilated a massive Seanchan army of 100,000 that included damane. Ituralde may be the best of the great captains and in his opinion: "Light! Ituralde whispered. "If that force gets past us, there won't be anything in Saldaea, Andor or Arad Doman that can stop it. Please tell me the Lord Dragon made peace with the Seanchan, as he promised?" He believes that those nations would be insufficient to stop this army of Trollocs and that they would need the Seanchan. Ituralde also had great successes against the Trollocs with a relatively tiny human force, so his words would carry even more weight. So clearly the Trolloc force has to number much much greater than 100,000 for someone like Ituralde to come to this conclusion. It has to be truly titanic in size for him to say that. Think of the size of the army Saldaea can field (at least 50,000 if not up to 100,000...Borderlander army is 250,000 and Queen did not take all her force), Andor should be able to field around 100,000, Arad Doman (probably 50,000). Even a force of 200,000 Trollocs would be insufficient to plow through Andor, Saldaea and Arad Domon or even a force of 300,000 Trollocs...since at each stage of battle the Trollocs would have many casualties. This was a truly titanic force of Trollocs that the DR defeated. Someone like Perrin easily defeated 50,000 Trollocs with somewhat similar number of warriors. Men have an advantage against similar number of Trollocs, due to tactics and channelers. According to Rand: "He(Dark One) struck far harder than he otherwise would have because he wanted to break my spirit". So my estimate was 1/2 million Trolloc army, that would certainly plow through any resistance offered by Andor, Saldea and Arad Domon.
  14. LTT and Ishamael were equal in strength but not in skill. Demandred was very close on both fronts to LTT. Rand however is on another level now. He completely wrecked an massive army of Trollocs possibly number close to 1/2 million by himself, without any aid. "An army of channellers" and Asha'man Naeff could not count the number of weaves...Rand is a titan. He would have to be in order to face what comes, beside the Dark One, there is Shadar Haran, Ishamael wielding the TP, Fain with his powers...
  15. From what I gathered Jordan said Rand was better than Galad, before losing his hand. Toram Riatin was nearly equal to Rand. Lan destroyed him easily. So there is a very large gap between Lan and Galad. Lan may be even better than Jearom. At their best/peak fighting prowess, Lan is easily the greatest blademaster in the world. The other blademasters are soft (physically), weak (mentally) and slow (see Egwene et al looking at Lan practicing the sword in amazement) in comparison to Lan: All of which will result in death. In the real world at the elite level, it all comes down to mental toughness.
  16. "Gawyn was pure lucky to finish of the Bloodknives and was basically dead anyway." Luck and skill go together. He easily held off 1 bloodknive and was facing off against 2. That is pure awesomeness. What the Seanchan sul'dam would say is "impossible", against one bloodknive. When Lan vs. Sleet, Sleet was a young man...Almost always fighters tend to become slower and weaker with age (exceptions in WoT is Lan, Rhuarc, real world somebody like Randy Couture, obviously age catches up with everyone eventually)...So Gawyn's victory while impressive was not that impressive in this case. If God says it is Galad > Gawyn, oh well.
  17. Note the Brandon quote on the previous page that indicates that Galad is still better than Gawyn. Sanderson ranked Lan, Galad then Gawyn. Fine. However, rankings can fluctuate in the real world, fighters get better, reach their prime. IMO, Gawyn has reached his and is the better swordsman. Nobody holds a candle to Lan.
  18. I certainly have no doubt whatsoever that Lan is the greatest blademaster in WoT. Lan was probably modeled after Lancelot/greatest knight of Camelot. Prime Lan > Prime any other blademaster. Lan the young man took out one of the top blademasters of the world at that time (possibly top 3). Keep in mind that soon after Lan became a Warder and wrecking blademaster Warders in combat. Warders = the most elite fighting force in WoT. In the real world, prime fighting prowess occurs around age 30, although with exceptions (Randy Couture of the UFC at nearly age 50). Lan took out a true blademaster in Toram Riatin with a minor scratch. Lan should be around 40 years of age by now. Gawyne probably similar, one of the great knights of Camelot, Gawayne. I think he has surpassed Galad in abilities with the sword and probably only second to Lan.
  19. Logain is an interesting character. In one of the earlier books, Min said Logain would have glory greater than any...or something along those lines. He could be one of the great generals of the past reborn. Hopefully he does not fight Ishamael, he would be too over matched. The other Forsaken, why not.
  20. Agreed. While I'm still extremely frustrated that Entreri won't acknowledge several of the points I've made. Lol. This started with "How did Rand gain so much badassery?" and somehow went from that to "Lanfear is the bomb! No she's just an arrogant witch!" We really should get back on topic though. I just don't really know where to start. I am not sure what points you are mentioning, I think I addressed them. I just showed why Lanfear is as strong as a woman can get. Anyway, Lanfear will play a critical part in AMoL.
  21. Lanfear is as strong as one can get for a female. According to Granedal it was "very rare indeed" even in AoL for someone to be stronger than Granedal (this is when she is measuring "weaker" Cyndane) Yes, Alivia who is "considerably" stronger than Nyaneve had an angreal when she fought Cyndane. He said he could have killed Lanfear...Yes, using balefire. There was no other way, Lanfear was far stronger than, and was completely man handling him, he could not believe her strength. Why? Lanfear had a near sa'angreal strength angreal (which Moraine now has), while Rand only had an average angreal and had now gained his full power (plus lack of knowledge in OP). Anyway, in raw strength males are much stronger, having several levels more than the females. However, the strongest women can do pretty much anything the strongest men can, according to RJ. I would say the male maximum is LTT/Ishamael level. IMO, Rand had some how gone above that maximum, as shown in ToM. We will see more conclusive evidence either way in AMoL. Aginor died because he was greedy, trying to handle too much of the OP.
  22. FarShainMael beat me to my point here but to put it a different way, Lanfear was arrogant and power hungry in the extreme. She assumes no woman can be stronger because she thinks of herself as the pinnacle of female achievement in the One Power and has never met her equal before Alivia. You can't point to Lanfear's fallacy and claim it as fact. She knows she is the pinnacle of women strength because she lived in the AoL, when there were far far more channelers and likely research was conducted in this area. In such an advance age, they would have a plethora of data on soooo many subjects. Channeling was not taboo back then and the variety of research done on the OP would have been massive. Granedal when she gauged Cyndane's strength (weaker than Lanfear), said it was "very rare indeed" for a woman to be stronger than her and uncommon among men, even in AoL. However, current AS are certainly ignorant of the limits on strength, saying for instance that Sharina (stronger potential than Nyaneve) may be as strong as a woman can get. We have yet to see any female of Lanfear's strength. Even Alivia who is "considerably stronger" than Nynaeve is likely Cyndane strength level instead of Lanfear's. Here is a website that has done through research on female strength level: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html I only read a bit of that article. It seems like a lot of conjecture based on little fact and a few quotes from RJ and really has no place in this debate as it is basically someone else's oppinion. You're making a lot of assumptions here. Aes Sedai in the AoL were more learned yes. They weren't infallible. Maybe they did research into a maximum level of power maybe they didn't. What would be the purpose of it? Until its stated that this research has been done its not a valid argument. Anyway, just because something has never happened before doesn't mean it can't happen. And science and discovery are constantly evolving. This is true in our world as well as the WoT world. "There's nothing smaller than an atom! That is preposterous! What? Where did all these protons and electrons come frome!?" "Heal severing? Impossible! We couldn't do that even in MY age before you primitives came about! What? TWO channelers have discovered a method to do this very thing?! MADNESS!!!!" Its not just old things being rediscovered. New discoveries are being made as well. Nynaeve and Flinn are proof of that. Also, you're contradicting yourself. In your previous post you mentioned that Alivia was even more powerful than Lanfear before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn held her. In fact I think you used a quote from the book. Then you said she is weaker? And then after repeatedly insisting a woman can't possibly be more powerful than Lanfear you quote Graendal as saying it was "very rare" for a woman to be more powerful than her? Maybe you're just wording your thoughts poorly but this is how I read it. You are misreading what I said. I never said Alivia without aid is more powerful than Lanfear. Alivia had an angreal when she fought Cyndane, that is why she was much stronger. Granedal states that it was "very rare indeed" for a woman to be stronger than her/Granedal, even in the AoL. This is when she is measuring Cyndane's strength. Cyndane is "weaker" than Lanfear. Lanfear was stronger than Cyndane. What you are talking about it making selected discoveries. What I am talking about is OP strength. Given that AoL population was far greater, and channler population would have been greater still proportionally than it is now (no culling of the males), it is very likely they knew how strong someone can become.
  23. FarShainMael beat me to my point here but to put it a different way, Lanfear was arrogant and power hungry in the extreme. She assumes no woman can be stronger because she thinks of herself as the pinnacle of female achievement in the One Power and has never met her equal before Alivia. You can't point to Lanfear's fallacy and claim it as fact. She knows she is the pinnacle of women strength because she lived in the AoL, when there were far far more channelers and likely research was conducted in this area. In such an advance age, they would have a plethora of data on soooo many subjects. Channeling was not taboo back then and the variety of research done on the OP would have been massive. Granedal when she gauged Cyndane's strength (weaker than Lanfear), said it was "very rare indeed" for a woman to be stronger than her and uncommon among men, even in AoL. However, current AS are certainly ignorant of the limits on strength, saying for instance that Sharina (stronger potential than Nyaneve) may be as strong as a woman can get. We have yet to see any female of Lanfear's strength. Even Alivia who is "considerably stronger" than Nynaeve is likely Cyndane strength level instead of Lanfear's. Here is a website that has done through research on female strength level: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html
  24. To be clear, I agree with you for the most part. I think Rand is somehow vastly more powerful than he was before. That's made pretty clear by "A Storm of Light". I'm really just trying to reason how this happened through debate. And I like playing the other side from time to time. Where we begin to differ is the "maximum threshold" thing. The fact that the other Forsaken were always so close to him in power even in the AoL is a bit of a hole in my theory. But I was just thinking. Maybe its something akin to the whole "humans only use 10% of their brain" thing. Is it possible the potential for channelers to control huge amounts more of the power than they had to this point always existed and Rand just somehow found a way to tap that 90%? Maybe my resistance to the idea of a maximum is irrational but I've never liked the idea of a maximum anything. Like a level cap on an RPG. "OH! Hey... You hit the top. Can't go any further! Its all downhill from here!" I had more to say but I'm at work and keep getting interrupted. So, I've forgotten most of it. Maybe I'll remember it later. RJ did have ranking/levels for one power strength. OP strength has been described somewhat similar to physical strength by Asmodean, when he compared the male female difference. There are limits to normal human physical strength (minus performance enchantments, genetic experimenting). When Lanfear met Alivia, "She [Alivia] was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn had held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too." Since there is a female maximum, there has to be a male one too.
  25. Confidence and projection of Power can only get one so far...Rand did get slapped around by the Borderland monarchs. The way the 26 AS were in a "near panic" and what Egwene said and Rands' performance in battle (Naeff: "I've never seen so many weaves AT ONCE. I can't track them all. He's a storm of Light and streams of Power!"), indicate that something happened to the DR, imo he broke the male maximum threshold. Anyway, I figure we will know conclusively in book 14.
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