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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Spilt-pea Soup

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Posts posted by Spilt-pea Soup

  1. Getting into much of this tends to take a turn for the speculative, but like Luckers, I don't believe in the Jesus/Rand parallels, as in, that they're intended to be based on the same Hero's soul in WOT lore. Perhaps if we go back a bit further in Abrahamic religions, we could make parallels to Michael the Archangel, or at least the War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness.

     

    Ah, I totally forgot about the Demons vs. Angels in the Old Testament, the demons being Forsaken, of course, and the Angels Aes Sedai.  Very cool.

  2. I've never been a fan of attempts to draw parallels between Rand and Jesus (or the nature of the Dragon and his role and the nature of Jesus and his role either).

     

    Firstly, purely based on their nature they are diametric opposites. One is a pacifist who 'fights' for the spiritual wellbeing of his people, the other a warrior who literally fights for the physical survival of--not really the people, but the race. Realistically the only similarities between Rand and Jesus are is that they were both prophesized leaders--and even that is somewhat subject to debate given that Jesus himself didn't really cleave to the role the messiah was supposed to play according to the Maccabean prophecies, which was far more politically focussed than the spiritual message Jesus portrayed.

     

    As for the physical points--the crown of swords is not a crown of thorns, and there are far more relevant mythological figures wearing crowns of swords than Jesus with his thorns. The stigmata too is a common mythological event--people love their saviours to suffer in surprisingly similar ways--a wound to each of the extremeties and one to the torso is common. And heroes born to virginal women? Perhaps its something to do with the symmetry of it. The hero suffers, but it adds an element of ritual to it so we don't have to feel too bad. It makes it romantic.

     

    That of course brings us to the nature of the Dragon, which is more what you were suggesting--but the issue here is that the role of the Dragon as saviour is not very similar to the role of Jesus. Indeed, the cycle of rebirth and coming back to champion the people has much more in common with the Mahayana Buddhist concept of the Boddhisatva than it does with God putting on his human clothes and coming down to do some carpenting.

     

    No, its very easy in western culture to see a saviour figure and think of Jesus--he is the biggest messianic figure in our history--or at least he is now thanks to the active effort of the Church--but in terms of reality they differ on essentially every point. If you're really looking for mythological precedents to inform your image of Rand, there are far more relevant ones than Jesus.

     

     

     

    This is a really interesting aspect of WoT, and I hope more chime in on it. 

     

    I think I use the Jesus parrallel to create a real-world timeline because Tarmon Gaidon = Armageddon.  The words are just *so* similar that I think its worth reflecting on.

     

    I agree with all your points re: Jesus, except he wasn't *quite* a pacifist.  Thinking of the time he threw the moneylenders out of the temple and also the time he said (allegedly) "I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword  . . . "

     

    Bodhisattva's were also typically apolitical and pacifist.  But such an interesting topic, I'm curious how others integrate the timeline into our world, if they do.

  3. This is an unbiased forum. 

     

    There are clear Jesus parallels in WoT.  I'm an atheist, btw, but this is someone else's fiction we're discussing.  Not my own. 

     

    Also, what about 3 days?  (It was actually more like 36 hours since he died friday night and rose sunday morning).

     

    I just said end of seventh age is Jesus' death. 

     

    End of first age is Armageddon (hasn't happened yet, and it's roughly 2020 years after Jesus' death so we're still well into the First Age.) 

     

    Age of legends begins after Armageddon ends.  (2nd age)  This age ends with breaking.  Into Rand's age (third age). 

     

    Thousands of years between all of those events, bud.

  4. Here's my take:

     

    Seventh Age = Pre-history/Ancient  Times culminating in Jesus Christ' Crucifixion.  A form of One Power lingers possibly,  in miracles of the age, or perhaps this has just been added later from memories of earlier times.  It doesn't really matter.  End of First Age = Armageddon, RETURN of JESUS to fight the Satan for good.

     

    This leads to the prophesied peaceful kingdom on earth, which is the Age of Legends, the beginning at which people are given the One Power by the Creator.  LTT is the Dragon (Jesus), at the end of this age, who is Reborn in the Third age.

     

    This is my take on things, or my attempt to make sense out of it, but by no means "truth" as far as the series goes.

  5. I recently started a re-read and thought that this time I might actually attempt to pronounce the names correctly.  However, I've noticed that some of the names are just ridiculous complicated, and Randland (RJ) really really likes words where a syllable ends with a vowel and then is followed by a different vowel.  I find these words just ridiculous to pronounce and in my mind resort to the diphthong. 

     

    The one I find the most ridiculous is Aiel, which is supposed to be aye-EEL.  But everytime I thing of someone pronouncing it, it just doesn't work.  Especially when used as a possessive (an Aielman's) .

     

    So I pronounce it "ale".

     

    Also, Taim, tame.

    Nynaeve, "NIGH-knave"

    Siuan, Swann (But here's an example of the dipthong's (tripthong?) being used.  (Also, Tear is tear, not TE-AIR).

    Cadsuane, CAD-swain

     

     

    The one name I struggle with the most Egwene, being unable to fix on a pronunciation.  I usually just end up thinking "EDGE-wean".

     

    Anyway,  what about you?

     

    What do you do?

     

     

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