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randsc

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Everything posted by randsc

  1. The quote I was looking for was one where Egwene expressed something other than a practical consideration for re-purposing the Red Ajah. I don't believe it exists. And they weren't in public, they were having a private conversation. So yeah, you damn well better believe she should have been corrected, if only to set the tone for the new relationship.
  2. It is hardly minor to allow "wilders" to not only organize, but train White Tower initiates. It isn't minor to actively recruit Novices, and scrape age from being a consideration for acceptance. It isn't minor to ask the Red Ajah to stop hunting male channelers and find another job. And Egwene is hardly blind to the flaws of the Aes Sedai: None of this refutes my point about Egwene believing in the hype that the WT is the undisputed leader of Randland as it used to be in her predecessors time. But it is. This isn't a matter of hype. When Rand wanted to get the rulers of the world together at FoM, it is Egwene he went to. He didn't go to Elayne and ask her to do it. He didn't get Darlin to do it. He didn't ask Gregorin to do it. Like it or not, the Amyrlin Seat has been the closest to a supra-national authority in Randland for 3000 years, and that kind of continuous political tradition holds a lot of meaning. But Egwene never made that kind of a pragmatic calculation. After all, her first question when she went to the Tower was, "Do we have to gentle the men? Can't we do something else?" Egwene belongs to a rather large class of Aes Sedai who saw gentling male channelers as a regrettable necessity, not something to be joyful about. The moment the taint was gone, that necessity was gone. Pragmatic considerations don't enter into it. Many Reds fall in this category too. Silviana certainly did. Quote please. Because I don't believe that is correct. Recognizing that the world changed is praiseworthy (see my note above) but she did in fact realize that the world changed, she didn't develop any sort of philospohical objection to gentling men. And in fact, she allows Silviana's casual misandry to go unchallenged, and even mentally agrees.
  3. In fairness, I do think Egwene deserves some credit for recognizing that there is a need for the Red to find a new role and purpose. And Silviana's promotion was clever. Because yes, it is obvious that the Red won't be able to hunt down male channellers anymore. But the obsolescence of buggy whips isn't always obvious to buggy whip makers. Egwene embodies many of the traits of the Aes Sedai as an organization, both good traits and bad. But she does not embody ALL of the traits of the Aes Sedai. And one trait she does not embody is extreme conservatism. She is ready to innovate (granted, only within the context of a worldview that still sees the Tower as the world's only legitimate fount of authority.)
  4. No one disputes that she will have a major role in the Last Battle. And I mean, like, NO ONE. I don't think I have ever seen anyone deny it. Whether you fanbois like it or not.
  5. It was destined in the sense that Robert Jordan decided it would happen in the very first book, realised around the middle of the series that he had no idea how to realistically get her there, then shrugged his shoulders and carried on anyway. It's just as randsc said - Egwene is dangerously close to being a Sue from a writing perspective. Right. My suspicion is that he originally intended Dreaming to be a big deal, but then found that having even one major character with the gift of prophecy closed a lot of options, and didn't want to have two. So Egwene's Dreaming diminished, and nothing really took its place except for Because She's Awesome-sauce!!!
  6. Maybe there's only so much hate to go around, and if Egwene is picking up more of it, then Faille naturally collects less. It has been suggested that Brandon's Egwene, in particular in Towers of Midnight, has been off character, much like Mat in tGS is said to be. Particularly his poor handling of the TAR scene with Perrin and Egwene. This is what has been said, not necessarily my views. Yeah , I also find this scene being written with a bit of Perrin favouritism . We , WoT fans , all know that Perrin is BS's most related character and he did not keep himself from making him looking better than other characters supposed to interact with him . Like Elayne when he came to negotiate with her or Galad in their Parlez-vous , Egwene in their TAR meeting is just one of those examples . Indeed, he has admitted he was trying to make Perrin as awesome as possible (to make up for the negative perception that was gained in the Shaido Arc, most likely.) But it is not just that scene, throughout the whole book there seems to be the trend of character v character. Which one gets the upper hand. Unfortunately for Egwene, she gets the brunt of it, with her v Gawyn, Rand, Perrin, Wise Ones and Sea Folk, Nynaeve, Mesaana (although this was a Forsaken, but still, it followed the same tradition) Of course, there are multiple ways this can be viewed. You see, I would have had more respect for Sanderson if he had defended, or simply allowed to stand, what was written in the TAR scene between Egwene and Perrin. Trying to explain away the plain language of the text because it resulted in some blowback in fandom is unfortunate. OF COURSE Egwene was trying to tie Perrin up and leave him. It's right there in the text. OF COURSE it is legitimate to question whether that was an admirable thing to do. Just leave both of those standing, don't try to create a revisionist history in which she was just about to whisk him away somewhere safe.
  7. This is a good point. Perceptions of Egwene have gotten worse, I agree. I don't think that perceptions of her changed with Sanderson, either by improving other characters or worsening Egwene. If anything, Egwene has now been given what are sometimes called, "moments of awesome" in the past couple of books that help counterbalance some of the negativity. My personal perception is that Faile-hate was always overblown, and isn't even Faile hate. It's "messed with the story-line of the popular character" hate. Jordan went off the rails a bit with the Perrin-Faile story line. Elayne-hate is about class, entitlement and more than a little, "Christ, won't this circus crap ever end?" What has happened with Egwene is that her Mary-Sue-like attributes have been reinforced by repetition. Every scene that ends with yet another Wise Woman/Windfinder/Aes Sedai in awe of Egwene's awesomeness adds to the dislike. So does every instance of her opponents turning into idiots, just in time to be schooled by Egwene. The other issue, I think, is that unlike other characters, Egwene's unrealistic accomplishments grate because they are in mundane areas. I'm not going to say, "Hey, it's unrealistic that Rand got so good at magic so quickly!!!" It's magic, and inherently unrealistic. Whereas I find the idea that centuries-old Aes Sedai would be so outclassed in real-world areas like law and politics unrealistic.
  8. In the real world? Sure. In fantasy literature? Not so much. You're suggesting that in fantasy literature, the pheasants often win? Wow.
  9. SUre. Not this second, because I don't have time. Besides, "nobles vs. pheasants" stories usually don't end well for the pheasants. In general, I would refer you to the many discussions of Egwene's Mary-Sue-ness. She may not have Pattern bending abilities, but that is more than made up for the fact that her every action is armored by her creator. She is univerally lauded in the books, unlike every other character. She is always just wonderful, will bring a great Amyrlin, destined for greatness, etc. All without any realistic explanation of why and how. What many who hope for a "beat-down" are actually hoping for is that Egwene is just being set up for some meaningful character growth. And the reason we hope for that is that if it doesn't happen, then she is Mary-Sue, and therefore by definition poorly written. And that would be a shame.
  10. awwwww. Absolute BS. Pure garbage. People wished constantly for Rand to be "taught to cry." The only reason it wasn't more vehement was because no one really defended Dark Rand's actions. You want to know why Egwene gets more criticism from readers than other characters? It is because she is uncriticised in-world. And because her worst actions are defended by a certain sub-set of readers. But just to bring this post back on-topic, here you go. A praise of Egwene, in every way typical of the intellectual rigor and sophistication typically displayed in such: Egwene, she's just super awesome!!! Happy?
  11. Please note that I didn't write a single negative word about your heroine. This was supposed to be an appreciation thread, but was taken off track by those who mysteriously feel that the best way to show appreciation for their favorite character is to cast aspersions on those readers who do not care for her. If it's "a throwaway line" why include it? It is, umm, well let's be nice and say, "ill-informed." But I love how your immediate response is to get all butt-hurt. How very typical of an Egwene fan-boi/gurl.
  12. I'm not even going to comment on Egwene. I can't; I'm laughing too hard at the notion that the Four Elements, a theme literally millenia old, "come from" the symbolism of a faith invented out of whole cloth less than a century ago. And I say that as someone generally quite sympathetic to all of the various Earth-centered and reconstructionist faiths. Hell, my daughter is a Spiral Scout. As for this bit of nonesense... ...I'll refer the author to the many, many threads where this has been discussed to death, and refuted. Yes, refuted. So, if people are going to dream up imaginary sexism rather than address real issues with the way this character is drawn, I might as well give them something real to chew on. So I'll say this, in the way of Egwene appreciation: Based on her description in the books, she may be a prime candidate for a fascinating reboot. Like Starfire.
  13. I find it implausible that Rand, after going to the trouble and risk he did in order to get armies to congregate at Merilor, would intentionally disperse the Borderlander armies. Besides, we know that he brought at least many of them with him.
  14. Rand - refusing to release Lan's hand, when they were on the rooftop in Far Madding; Mat - rescuing Jolene and the others, despite his feelings about Aes Sedai. Followed closely by the thing with the Sea Folk, which I still think will turn out to be very important. Also followed closely by going into the Stone after the Wondergirls. Also followed closely by bowing to the obnoxious Amyrlin to ensure she is taken seriously. Also followed closely by going after Moiraine. Also followed closely by his initial charge against the Shaido; Perrin - Dumai's Wells; Elayne - Bonding Birgitte; Egwene - the fight outside Cairhein; Nynaeve - following after these idiot kids, through all of this.
  15. Struggles for control(and the subsequent deaths) with a couple siblings is not the same thing as "executing her own family". she says she has ordered the death of her siblings, but she justifies it by saying that they started it. This does not show the family dynamic that perrin has thus their situations are not really comparable You have no idea what her relationship was like with her mother or siblings beyond the stories about a couple siblings we have heard to make that judgement. Actually, we do know that she felt no particular attachment to her mother.
  16. Self-sacrifice isn't noble when it is wasteful. Lan wants to die, fine. Die doing something useful, not charging an overwhelming force, resulting in either the destruction of your army or other resources needing to be diverted to bailing you out.
  17. Or maybe he's dead, and she can't bear to wear his favorite colors. I'm going to go with that one, since the guy now pisses me off.
  18. Clearly not Cadsuane. For a whole host of reasons. That is not "iron" colored hair. That hair is not in a tight bun. Cadsuane would not wear a ki'sain, which can be clearly seen in the image. Cadsuane was not with Rand, "from the very beginning." Plus, Cadsuane is going to be dead by this point in the story. I think the only reason for the somewhat amiguous description from Tor is to keep us guessing about whether than is Moiraine or Egwene. And I don't think that is actually in much doubt. Because I think I see a keseira (it is not as clear as Nynaeve's ki'sain). And also because of how Moiraine was first described as wearing, "sky-blue velvet cloak with vines and flowers along the edges in thick silver embroidery." Moiraine and Nynaeve.
  19. Where is the option for, "The Dark One will not be defeated?" "I win again, Lews Therin."
  20. I dunno. What's Alivia's role, then?
  21. Why the hell did they mkae Nynaeve a blond? But yes, fairly spoilerish. I note that Rand is still wearing a sword other than Calandor, presumably still Justice.
  22. I'll need some more help. Certainly, that isn't mentioned in connection to his name anywhere in TFoH (I did check, although I restricted myself to the paragraph in which his name was mentioned -- the only one according to Ideal Seek -- and the one immediately following it). Look at Chapter 12, as well as 28. In Chapter 12, Byrne doesn't yet know that Dulain was the cause of his confrontation with Suian. She explains in 28. Dulain died in 996.
  23. You don't think people like Norry and Siuan would have info on all the powerful nobles even if they are not King? The very fact that Siuan was trying to unite Murandy under one backs that point. All of these events going on show a marked change from the person they knew of before. So why wasn't Egwene's thought, "Egwene made a vexed sound. It was a remarkable plan, the sort of thing Siuan might devise, and hardly a scheme she thought Roedran Almaric do Arreloa a’Naloy could carry off. Suian said the fellow was useless, and in an off-screen conversation, Elayne's secretary agreed. But then, it was hardly a scheme she would have believed Roedran could think up." But if you prefer, fine: Egwene has no endearing qualities whatsoever. Also, what eff-ing right does she have to be "vexed?" Better?
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