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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Agitel

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Posts posted by Agitel

  1. I do wish much of the dialogue in the show was better. Take for instance Liandrin's exchange with Leane. She just bluntly threatens her. More exciting TV dialogue would have had a conversation in which they're making seemingly inane talk about something but there's a lot of implied subtext. Where what they're really talking about isn't what they're openly talking about. And TV still usually does a wink and a nod at the viewer at some point in the conversation in case the meaning went over anyone's heads. This isn't just a Wheel of Time thing. This was the perfect opportunity for this type of exchange.

  2. 45 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

    Have they changed the animations for channeling this season?  I remember there was a bit of concern over how it would be represented in the series and I vaguely remember that I found it acceptable in Season 1.  I remember noticing that the flows seems to come from off screen and it looked like the channelers were grasping at threads that were already there and manipulating them into their service.  Yet off the top of my head, this season it looks like threads just seem to form around a channeled and wrap around their arms or bodies a bit.  I don’t know what it is and it could be subtle or it could also be me misremembering.  Something seems off about some of the animations to me, though, this season.  Obviously it is a subjective opinion on how it looks but I’m just wondering if anyone else has felt that the effects are somehow different from season to season with regards to channeling.

     

    Yes, a touch. Saidar is shown as silvery white, while Saidin is shown as firey gold (with streaks running through it). It hasn't been in every scene, but in a handful where we got closer, we also saw saidar with threads of five colors, representing the five flows. It has mostly just been all silver or all gold, depending on which half of the One Power it is, but getting that up close look and seeing all the colors at one point was satisfying. The weaving isn't what I imagine like was in the books, though. I imagined knots and knitting and tapestries.

  3. If you look at the collapse of the Roman Empire, the common languages in most of the former empire diverged after like 400-800 years, or something like that.

     

    Anyway, I think it is a little preposterous the languages in the world didn't diverge more. Particularly the Aiel and the Seanchan being more distinct from the Westlands, and the shifting away from the Old Tongue to the common tongue happening anyway (and apparently uniformly).

     

    However, one possible excuse -- maybe not a strong enough excuse, but an excuse -- that could be given is that the printing press was remade very, very soon after the Breaking was over. All literature and publications could be mass produced and distributed all over, which could help slow language drift some.

  4. 23 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

    I'm not convinced that Liandrin's son was actually as physically aged as he appeared, but that seems to be a minority point-of-view.

     

    My read is that he's at least 50+ and aged poorly due to illness, unless they're reconning Liandrin to be even older than what I think was previously stated. I don't think he's 20/30/40 and has some magical disease that aged him up. 

     

    I think they picked someone so old to really strike home the effects of the longer lifespans, but on the flip side, Liandrin herself isn't even old enough in the show lore to justify someone looking that old, or at least it's a stretch.

     

    I suppose the only way I think it'd be some channeling induced affliction is if the Black Ajah is somehow responsible for it and is somehow using it to keep a hold on her, and I'm open to something coming back up, but my read is it was just done for effect and the age discrepancy won't be a plot point.

  5. 22 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

    The actual Warder bit of that episode was a tiny part in comparison to the really important part, a reason to bring the story to the White Tower and introduce tower politics in season 1. the whole Steppin bit didnt take up much run time at all, maybe 10 mins total if that, and that 10 mins shows the non book audience a key fact about the bond that keeps reoccurring right the way through the story.  

     

    I understand the reason, but it is one of my criticisms that season one needed to spend a bit more time with the EFF. And I understand the logic in bringing the political element forward, but unfortunately I feel like it took away from something more important in season one. A lot of this may have been mitigated if the back half of S1 found its stride, but I don't think it did.

  6. 15 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    Yeah, it's not like the Aes Sedai in the books didn't keep him imprisoned at the White Tower and under constant supervision and that he only managed to escape by taking advantage of Elaida's coup. No reason to be concerned about a gentled Dragon. None at all. 

     

    There were mainly two book reasons for why he was kept at the Tower. As an example, and also because he's a suicide risk, and I think Aes Sedai custom felt responsibility for that, and sympathy with being gentled, even if it was what was best.

  7. I like Greene. Most of his criticisms seem to be about the show departing from the books. He seemed especially disappointed by not seeing Lan and Rand together. Egwene and Elayne keeping a mournful vigil seems to have gone over his head. Maybe he just missed Elayne's comment that she would stay with Egwene to keep vigil as long as she needed.

  8. Giving an arc to a major character who's missing for a whole book is not uncommon in television adaptations. While I think much of the execution in season one was very rough, including episodes 6-8, I think the Warder plotline in episode 5 is the only one that I think was time better spent elsewhere. I could make a case for some scenes in episode 6, too, but I think if they did the same basic idea with better execution it would be worth it. The Warder plotline is the only one I feel was a bad judgment call.

     

    I know the reasons for it, but I don't think it was worth it in the end.

     

    But generally speaking, having less runtime is precisely one of the reasons why we're getting original scenes to convey the same information in less time in a coherent way.

     

    As for Moiraine, she is present and doing stuff in books three through five. She is literally just not present for most of book two.

  9. I agree that while she is likely being duplicitous in many respects, I think those reactions were genuine. For whatever reason, whether personal shame or frustration over having to report a failure. Or even genuine emotional investment and sympathies with Nynaeve. Even if she is Black Ajah, she can still form attachments.

     

    And any attachments can sour as the show progresses.

  10. 24 minutes ago, JosephBurns said:

     

    You're right.  Too ambitious.  What about 3 and 4 in once 8 episode season?    

     

    S3 E1 would be them leaving AP and venturing towards Tear.  Little bit of Mat & the girls in TV before they leave.

     

    S3 E2 would be more on the way.

     

    S3 E3 they arrive in Tear and the stone falls

     

    S3 E4 off to the waste / Tanchico / Two Rivers

     

    S3 E5 arrive at waste / Tanchico / Two Rivers

     

    S3 E6 Rhuidean with Mat & Rand

     

    S3 E7 Tanchico / Two Rivers finale

     

    S3 E8 Al'Cair Dal / Rhuidean fight with Asmodean

     

     

    This is actually what I'd be up for expecting from S3 if they do keep the Stone of Tear/Callandor this early. Even within episode one or two. They may keep doing time skips between seasons when appropriate. I don't think we'll get the full journey from Falme to Tear by a longshot, if we get Tear at all.

  11. Liandrin trying to groom Nynaeve for recruitment into the Black Ajah is something that crossed my mind, too. Not only is Nynaeve incredibly powerful, but she's also vulnerable. She's not happy, she doesn't want to be there, she has this issue, she doesn't really fit in. Maybe she'd be willing to cross lines to help those she loves? All types of things that, with Liandrin's guidance and help through some difficulties, make her a candidate for radicalization. 

  12. So, full spoilers for the books... I'm going to still tag this because some of these plot points may be revealed in the show later, and I'm spoiling what is a minor mystery in the books for a bit.

    Spoiler

    All channelers age more slowly. And they without any other qualifiers would still get gray hairs, wrinkles, and so on, as they get very old. Aes Sedai in particular swear the Three Oaths, and this binding process affects their aging. They still live 200-300 years but their lifespan is particularly cut shorter than it would be otherwise by these oaths. However, the Oaths also result in the channeler taking on an ageless look. Their skin doesn't wrinkle, or sag, and it becomes difficult for people to place their age. Their hair still does eventually whiten or gray, but that's really it.

     

    In the books Moiraine, Siuane and Liandrin are all just over 40 years old or so. Siuane is exceptionally young for an Amyrlin. Most Sitters (basically reps for the Ajahs on their little legislature) attain at least triple digits before getting that position, or get near enough to that age. And the Amyrlin is typically older still.

     

    Regarding the show, I think they dropped the ageless looks just because it'd be a lot of make up and rule out a lot of potential good actors who can command a screen. I'm not sure if the varying age rates is canon or just a visual concession so they can get good actors.

     

    Regarding Liandrin's son, I'm not sure what to make of him not being Healed. Liandrin might have little to no talent with Healing, and she may be too concerned with not opening herself to others that she's never sought Healing for him or revealed him to anyone else. I suppose it could just be a serious disease that is beyond the Healing skills of the Yellow Ajah, but I think that begs the question a bit. I hadn't pondered it until this topic.

  13. Most of us seem to think Moiraine's just been shielded by Ishamael, perhaps in a way that goes beyond the type of shield she's familiar with. There are some cues for that. Others have speculated she may take Siuan's role later in the series. I personally would be on the former. 

     

    Rosamund Pike is their biggest name actor and the lead of the series. She's a producer on the show. And she's a major character in the books. Yet she has very little presence in TGH. It's a little like how they expanded Theon Greyjoy 's arc in one of the GOT seasons because otherwise he'd be off screen the whole time, though there isn't much to show for Moiraine. So they have her dealing with this ability being stolen from her (temporarily, in my mind) for her arc, while she'll still probably end up in the same way she does at the end of TGH. It gives the character a seasonal arc, and allows us to highlight that her grit and determination is there beneath the surface and she's more than just her magical ability.

     

    All that said, does that mean I'd have done the same thing if I was writing the show? Not necessarily. But I feel accepting of the judgment calls they're making, and needing to present info in a more concise way, not as luxuriously sprawled out as it could be in the books. And the fact that the quality of the production (so far) is much better than what was there in season resolves one of my biggest issues.

  14. 25 minutes ago, JosephBurns said:

    Why not just stick with canon?  There's fifteen books!  

     

    Fifteen books and six to eight seasons that it's being planned for because HBO and actors wouldn't commit to 15-20 years of production.

     

    Imagine if the two partner Dune movie had to be squeezed into a single film? Or if the ASoIaF series only got 3-4 seasons instead of 8. That's the kind of crunch they're working with at this time if they plan to do the whole thing, that's the buy in from Amazon.

     

    We have a hunt for the horn and Perrin catching up on his wolf abilities. We have Mat recovering in Tar Valon. We have Rand on a solo journey (TDR) with the introduction of Selene. We have Nynaeve's accepted test, Elayne's introduction, and the three girls in the Tower. We have Moiraine studying at Adeleas' and Vandene's Verin's. The plot threads are being laid out hitting similar beats to the book and heading in similar directions.

     

    This isn't my dream adaptation, but it's what we get at this time.

     

    And compared to season one, the production value and execution of what they are going for, at least, is much improved.

  15. 1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

     

    wait, am I the only one who think the test is perfectly clear? ok, they don't spell it straight out, but the point is: she must get into each of the three arches and come back. if she can't go in, she fails and she is put out of the tower. if she can't get out, she fails, but that's the least of her problems.

    What's unclear about it all?

     

    In the book Nynaeve has to choose to stay or go. The first TV test everyone was already getting murdered and it was too late to help so leaving was a no brainer. Second one was right though I think they could have twisted the emotional knife more. Third one was actually right on the first pass, but in the second pass there really wasn't anything else she could do. Everyone was already dead except the girl.

     

    The difference is the temptation to stay because she thinks she can make a difference, where there is an alternative, but in two out of three (overall) there really was no other rational choice but to leave. The question is whether she's willing to leave things behind in order to be Aes Sedai, not just about confronting her fears and having her hand forced because by the time she makes her choice there's no one left to help or save or happiness to pursue.

  16. The after episode commentaries of 90% of premium shows I watch are filled with absolutely useless comments. Thinking that the only point they ever discussed with Uno during production was just "yeah this'll make them fear the Seanchan" and nothing else is just very cynical.

     

    We're also talking about actor commitments, screen time, budget, and a lot of other factors that come to TV, and a huuuge cast of characters for the audience to remember. And Uno doesn't really have much of an arc at all in the books. Any one reason might seem weak by itself, but ultimately Uno didn't make the cut and he was able to serve a purpose in the show.

  17. If they want to take more time to breathe, I'm all for it, but my thought process on how they're doing it is Rhuidean/Emond's Field in S3 and Cairhien/Dumai's Wells in S4.

     

    I did not expect a linear adaptation of TGH and TDR in S2. I expected either the locations got merged together and both happened at once, or they did not have the characters reunite at the end, with some characters handling Falme and having Rand go to Tear for Callandor (and even the sky battle) in the same season as back to back/simultaneously climaxes. But so far that doesn't seem to be their direction.

     

    I think they could cut quite a bit in S3 and potentially do both Tear and Rhuidean (linearly) in a single season. But maybe Rafe is taking a slower pace than that. I do think repeated confrontations with Ishy, with the split apart and come together again of the first three books won't be repeated, so I could see that whole arc to Tear being done differently and more expediently.

  18. 26 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

    IOW, if Moiraine 'dies' in Season 3 and Rosamund doesn't depart the cast, we as an audience will be shown that she's alive shortly thereafter and part of Season 4 will involve us seeing her go through whatever she went through after her 'death', whether through the means of original storylines or storylines pulled forward from the books.

     

    So they do a Theon Greyjoy with her. Most of where she goes is just

     

    Spoiler

    her being held captive while these elfin people who don't serve as major characters in the story feed on her energies.

     

    So not a lot of content without expanding it more. It'd be nice to see that, in my view, because it's a mysterious aspect of the books that'd be fun to explore, but unless they create a whole new plot direction altogether I feel like that lasts a season, possibly two, if they're willing to keep us hanging a bit before the reveal. Unless new arcs are created entirely, rather than just expanding on established lore, they'd have to bring her back earlier than in the books. Honestly I think killing her off as a character works better for the narrative, mostly, as Rand believing her dead is significant for his development. But obviously there are different ways to plot it out, restructure things, and other factors that are important for working on TV.

     

    We shall see. If they're staying roughly consistent with the book timelines, which of course they may not, the event should happen either in S3 or S4, depending on when they do what content.

  19. Moiraine is also still visiting Adeleas and Vandene Verin like she does near the beginning of TGH, doing her research and studying.

     

    We're going to the end of TGH, with probably some TDR type development for characters (Rand on an almost solo journey).

     

    It's not translated 1:1 to screen, very much not so, but the general thrust of the arcs are still present.

     

    That said, I'm curious as to when the Stone of Tear and Callandor fit into the show arc. They could surprise me, but I'm having trouble seeing it fit into this season, and I'm unsure of exactly what content they'll cover in the next season, unless they squeeze in Tear quite early... I imagine much of S3 being Book 4.

     

    If much of 3 will be cut, and the BA hunt from books 3 and 4 are merged together, they could probably fast track the Stone of Tear and Rhuidean climaxes in Rand's arc in a single season, if they still want to keep Callandor at all this early in the series. Then S4 could open up to more politics and build to DW. Oy, my brain hurts. It could be done...

  20. 5 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

    Rafe and his writers will craft a storyline for Moiraine in order for Rosamund Pike to remain on our screens. That's a guaranteed certainty*.

     

    Said storyline may be derived from the novels, or it may be 100% original. The point is that even if/when we reach a place where Moiraine was no longer present in the novels, we will still see Rosamund Pike playing the character on our screens, and we will eventually 'catch up' to the point where she re-enters the narrative as it appears on the page.

     

    Believing that Rosamund Pike will disappear from the cast just because the story reaches a point where the character of Moiraine disappeared from the novels - even temporarily - is, to put it bluntly, foolishness.

     

    * They've already crafted a storyline for the character in Season 2 in order to keep Rosamund on our screens

     

    They created a storyline for season two because she still has more significant things to do from the books.

     

    You wrote with such certainty. What do you say to GOT removing Sean Bean and Mark Addy from the show in its first season? They didn't write new plots for their main characters there.

     

    Killing her off permanently fits the narrative better than skipping that plot point all together.

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