Remember that GoT set a "standard" for success on HBO - which required people to subscribe to see (I didn't but wanted to), but on the Amazon platform (anyone who buys items and wants them in 2 days) gets access to Prime. So, they don't need the sex scenes that GoT did in the early years to pull in viewers. 

My hope is that the first season is successful enough that the producers can then bring Jordan's immersive world to light. (no pun intended) So many characters, so many storylines, let's see it all! 

On 7/5/2019 at 10:45 PM, Beidomon said:

Some of what I’m hearing is good news. The showrunners def need to take a page from GOT and make the characters less one-dimensional. One of the biggest failings of WOT. We need to see more of the Forsaken and actually develop those characters! That’s worth cutting about 100 dumb Aes Sedai. Also would like to kill off some big characters earlier, and perhaps chop

down that rather silly Rand-Min-Elayne-Avi thing.

 

I really don’t care if they change a few ethnicities or even sexualities of the characters. My bigger concern is the *feminism* bit. WOT has plenty of strong female characters, but the SuperGirls get more than a little annoying at times. Not to mention the interminable Aes Sedai nonsense that made Books 7-10 such a horrible slog. I am VERY worried this series is going to play up Moraine and the SuperGirls and downplay Rand. Rand is THE CENTRAL CHARACTER!!!!

 

If they stray too far into the woke weeds, that’s going to ruin it for me. 

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Rand and his 3 women...

Excited to hear this news about TV series, though am keeping expectations low. Like a lot of people have said, Rand is the central character of the series and I would like to see a lot of the series focused on him, Mat, and Perrin. As far as I can tell, everything else looks ok.

Will still probably have to wait another 2-3 years before the TV series premeirs on TV. Again looking forward to watching when it comes out.

Hoping everyone has a reasonably cool summer.

On 6/23/2019 at 10:14 PM, Ladysidhe said:

 I don't have a problem with diversity, but fundamentally changing the characters' relationships to one another (Egwene/Gawyn, Perrin/Faille, Moiraine/Thom, Siuan/Gareth, Mat/Tuon, Rand/Min/Aviendha/Elayne, and Nynaeve/Lan, Birgitte/Gaidal Cain), makes them no longer the characters from the books; the writers would then have to change the motivations for many of the things these characters do, and as a result, it would disrupt the actual storyline--since these relationships directly affect important plotlines. There are already many characters in the books who DO represent the LGBTQ community (Aran'gar and Osan'gar, Ailil Riatin and Shalon din Togara Morning Tide, Elaida and Meidani, Galina and Tarna, Seonid Traighan, just to name a few), and the books are already racially diverse.  If they're going to change things just for the sake of changing them, they may as well just make up an entirely new story and forget about WoT.

I agree with you 100% They don't listen to fans though. Just look at Stephen King's adaptations. We will always have the books though!

First off as I said in previous comment keeping expectations low for TV series.

Adaptations from books to movies or vice versa are always a little different than everyone expects. From what I read of the news topic almost everything looks ok. However I would NOT recommend keeping some characters out of first season. Namely Elayne, Galad, and Gawyn etc. It might be a good idea to at least introduce them in the first season, just not give them a whole lot of screen time.

The other thing is the statement about TWOT not being about good and evil, but about balance vs. inbalance. Like I said I know the TV series will be a little different, but I hope and I would strongly urge whoevers in charge of the project to try to stay true to the central theme or storyline of the series. Look how The Lord of the Rings movies went. As far as I can tell the main storyine of the movies was about good and evil, and it seemed to work out well. When I mention movies I am talking about the first three movies: the fellowship, the two towers, the return of the king.

I will say one more thing. I dont think this is happening with TWOT TV series, but if whoevers producing it is planning on going with a completely different story e.g. (legends of the seeker from the sword of truth series), a lot of people and fans of the series are going to be angry and disppointed.

Again I think the TV series is going in the right direction, though I want to put this out there just in case. 

So, I am hoping for the best with TV series and looking forward to when it does come out. Thanks for sharing the news and updates dragonmount.

I don't much care one way or another about the Moiraine/Thom thing, although it is interesting to note that they are about the same age.

I would be very disappointed if Min were removed/reduced. She's one of my favorite characters, and her relationship with Rand is pivotal. 

It would make sense to me to have each season be one book, however I think book 14 maybe split into two.  I hope that is do-able. 

I don't understand why people are saying that they want this TV show to be PG-13. The books themselves are not PG-13 except for not detailing out sex scenes everything else is very MA content (I'm talking about the battle scenes like Dumai's Well and language even though it isn't modern cussing.) These aren't things that can be cut out because these things help shape the trio since they all hate battles and killing but they are forced to do so to survive. I doubt they would be able to make this show work as a PG-13 content and stay true to how detailed the books were in the battle scenes and not to mention the several scenes of torture depicted in the books.

I've already seen enough change from the source materials to know I won't be watching.  Yet another series with wonderful potential ruined by a revisionist progressive agenda.

The hint in the "adult content" startle me a bit. I write about comparing with the Game of Thrones. The song of ice and fire was a little more explicit on this matter, and the show went further to please more people. However, the story itself suffers a lot because this degradation (I write about serial). They can bring quality stories with deep characters to the screens, or create a shallow fun for mindless crowds with a lot of sex and violence. If they chose second case, they do not need spoil out favorite books. They can create special sh*t world for it.

On 6/24/2019 at 4:10 PM, Daniel said:

I just got done with my third re-read and even though this is my favorite book series of all time. It definitely needs an update. WoT is a very progressive book series for how many years it continued on for along with the progressiveness of where it started. Idk if you remember but nudity is a major thing for a few of the WoT cultures. Along with tests for the white tower. Don't forget a very important point in Rand and Aviendha's story line. If that's something that'll prevent you from watching then good. I'd much rather you guys not watch and let Raf and the team do this amazing series justice. If LGBTQ stuff grosses you out. You probably shouldn't re-read the books because it's definitely there and will be in the show. That said if they don't have Lan be somewhat Asian I'm going to revolt. 

I agree it is there. Which is why it doesn't make sense to change characters storylines to add more. Moraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" but that doesn't mean it needs to be a main story point. Also Lan has been cast and is an asian guy and I couldn't agree more! Some have argued for Elayne and Min; or Min/Aviendha to have a love interest and ignore the entire love triangle between Rand, Min, Elayne, and Aviendha which I think it a mistake because it totally changes a lot of Rands motivations and outlooks. Make an Asha'man gay is fine, but changing main characters story arcs completely changes the story. This story was written in the 80's/90's and is way ahead of its time with LGBTQ stories so to have to add it in seems forced. Ive read the books 3 times and listened to the audiobook (some pronunciations I was WAY OFF on ha ha), but the LGBTQ is definitely there without changing entire story lines. 

On 8/25/2019 at 4:55 PM, Garalath said:

I don't understand why people are saying that they want this TV show to be PG-13. The books themselves are not PG-13 except for not detailing out sex scenes everything else is very MA content (I'm talking about the battle scenes like Dumai's Well and language even though it isn't modern cussing.) These aren't things that can be cut out because these things help shape the trio since they all hate battles and killing but they are forced to do so to survive. I doubt they would be able to make this show work as a PG-13 content and stay true to how detailed the books were in the battle scenes and not to mention the several scenes of torture depicted in the books.

I agree it can't be PG13 but I would love to see the language remain the same. This is supposed to be a fantasy book set in the far future. Whose to say the language remained the same. Violence (given), nudity (can be tasteful), language leave alone! Not every show needs to have "fuck" used like scarface! This is supposed to be a fantasy book written far in the future not a post apocalyptic world of 2040!

I felt that Jordan was a bit gentle with us when it came to the "dark side" in the novels.  The words were often ... soft ... but the pictures were 18+ EVIL.  It is my hope that a modern retelling will focus on just how evil the evil people in WOT were.  I want to be shocked and reviled by just how dark these people are - the series has to make the viewer love someone then rip their heart out when they turn out to be sworn to the dark (this needs to be done multiple times.)

Agree with everyone mentioning that there is no real need for special focus on race/sexuality, there is clearly enough in the novels without making things up. Those people questioning why ginger, light skinned people are in the desert, need to remember that all this is post-breaking (skin cancer must be rampant) - no group evolved where they currently are.

Viewing this series as a different turning of the wheel, or just another glee-person's perspective, is how I am looking forward to it.  At worse it will get more people to read a series I have read many times.  Might even get a few more people playing WOTMUD ?

WOT did have sex scenes, even if they weren't explicitly described.  Sure.  But one of the principal conflicts of the early books was the conservative morality and myopic worldview of the Two Rivers folks in comparison to the worldly ways of the people they encounter.  Nynaeve, especially, should not be shown nude or be sexualized.  She considered it her job to enforce the moral standards of her community.  Nynaeve, Perrin, and and Egwene all waited until marriage to have sex.  Rand occasionally agonized about his "lechery".  Mat apparently had premarital sex with various bar maids, was raped by Tylin, and THEN got attached/married to Tuon.  It all fits their characters and destinies, so it shouldn't be changed.        

It never ceases to amaze me how Hollywood can take an excellent book and trash it, to make it "better".....in their opinion.  The "Hobbit" and "Lord of the Ring" series were much older than WOT yet they were made to follow the books as closely as possible.  Now they refuse or fail to remember the record breaking success each of those 6 films achieved.  It's sad that literature is no longer permitted to stand alone on it's own merit....the Left/liberals feel everything must bend to comply with their definition of morals and society or lack of.  If Hollywood chooses to create a story line as radical as some have implied, they are probably going to lose a significant quantity of viewers during or after the first episode.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

I have been waiting a decade to introduce this book series to my children, and just started them on it this week. I was very excited to hear about the tv series, but if they hype up the sexual content it will be a deal killer for us. There’s no need for it. Think longer term and grow your next generation of fans. Don’t destroy that opportunity by turning off so many fans who loved these books in part because of their subtlety. The more I read about these changes, the sadder I am to realize they are going to butcher this amazing possibility. Keep it pg-13!  The best on-screen events are those that don’t rely on gratuitous scenes and sensationalism to tell their story. 

I started reading WoT when I was in high school.  The first book was published during my Freshman year.  I continued reading the books until the end of The Memory Of Light and that was the last book in the series.  Those books I read from high school through  college on up.  There's not a lot of series that can be said that about.  I hope they don't overly sexualize it.  The racial diversity is pretty much a given on anything these days, it's to be expected.  That is going to happen no matter what is made into a TV show.  At least it's finally getting made into one.  

I hope the producers, and Harriet, are reading and giving some thought to the opinions in the comments above by Jim's fans that overwhelmingly support the idea of NOT making the TV series more "woke" than the books that we've all enjoyed (over and over again) for all of these years. Even for the time period in which they were written, Jim pushed the envelope on diversification. The books contain PLENTY of "pillow friends," nudity, and racial equivalence. Poor Terry Brooks - the producers and directors destroyed his work with "wokeness" and over-sexualization to the point that the Shannara series was unwatchable if one had read all of Brook's works. I will disagree with some of the folks here that the Moraine/Thom relationship was unnecessary. It was extremely necessary, especially for the "final battle" between Rand and the Dark One and Moridin. Moraine had lost her Warder, and very little made Moraine laugh in delight as Thom's tricks at the ferry in EooW did, and it was clear throughout that Moraine had a grudging respect for Thom's abilities with the Game of Houses. I do also agree with the commenters that spending too much time on the rescue of Faile could cause production issues, however, Jim had his reasons for keeping Rand, Perrin, and Mat apart for much of the series. Mat also spent way too much time with Luca's show, I believe for much of the same reason as with Perrin. Having said, "wokeness" has had its season, and people are already more than tiring of it. The people want authenticity, for good reason. We don't want a "Sword of Truth" show - we want the Wheel of Time! Thanks!

I have just completed the re-reading of The Eye of the World, taking notes, writing short summaries for each chapter, then a wider one for the entire book, trying to elaborate on the main characters, and so on. It took three weeks. Let's dream, for a moment, to be the director of the TV series... I would dedicate FOUR EPISODES to the first book: - Episode 1 - Emond's Field (from the very beginning to the leaving); - Episode 2 - Shadar Logoth (focusing on their stay in the cursed city but just a fast bit of Baerlon to show Whitecloaks, Fain , and Min); - Episode 3 - Caemlyn (cutting a lot of Rand's and Mat's, showing in the first half Elyas and the Traveling People and the attack of the Myrddraal at Whitebridge - sorry Bayle Domon to let you out - and in the second half the display of caged Logain at Caemlyn and the meeting between Rand, Elayne-Gawyn-Galad, and with Morgase-Byrne-Elaida); - Episode 4 - The Eye of the World (a few minutes in the Ways, a few more in Fal Dara, then the climaxing showdown from the Green Man to Aginor-Balthamel, and the final sentence by Moiraine back in Fal Dara to close it). Episode 3 could be splitted in two parts, but I would not use more than 4 episodes for the first book. I guess the screenwriters know that, if the series will be renewed (fingers crossed), they could just spend a couple of episodes for Books 8-11 and save money and general attention for Books 1-6 (7) and 12-14.

I am very sceptical about how good the show will be, when it will be aired.

At the moment I am less thrilled by what I've read (sounds pretty woke) and by the cast, which is not really true to the character's description (at least not as I would perceive them).

But who knows ... at the end I might get very much surprised in a positive way.

I CANT WAIT!

Who will be cast as the forsaken??? And how about the last battle and the ways and black ajah and the dream world and the breaking and the trollocs and AAAAA ???

Hi everyone! I know I am a bit late to the discourse, but I feel that this needs to be said. 

As a person who is both transgender and gay, I have grown up seeing only cisgender, heterosexual people (most of them white) represented in any media I have consumed. Especially in the fantasy genre. Robert Jordan is one of the better authors in this regard, but all of his representation is riddled with homophobia and his own prejudice. At several points in the book, I had to do constant mental gymnastics to feel comfortable enough to keep reading. The story and worldbuilding were great, but any LGBTQ+ rep was done very poorly. 

Especially as a transgender person, the way Aran'gar was written was very difficult to read. They were assigned male at birth, but then reborn in a female body. They were shown to be attracted to both men and women, but very predatory, especially towards women. This smacks of transgender stereotypes and the debate on the validity of trans people and the debate on our rights to use the bathroom that lines up with our gender identity. In order for me to be able to finish the series, I had to actively choose to view Aran'gar as a bisexual, transgender woman who was reborn into a body that felt right to her. All the while, knowing that that was not at all how she was written. It still makes me dysphoric and uncomfortable to read the books that she is in. 

I think that the Wheel of Time series deserves an update in order to make all current and future fans feel comfortable to read and watch such a wonderful series, and I am so hopeful for the TV adaptation! Fans deserve to see such a wonderful story that, for once, doesn't put all the focus on a bunch of cisgender, heterosexual, white males. 

On 5/13/2021 at 4:52 PM, AviendhaDeservedBetter said:

Hi everyone! I know I am a bit late to the discourse, but I feel that this needs to be said. 

 

As a person who is both transgender and gay, I have grown up seeing only cisgender, heterosexual people (most of them white) represented in any media I have consumed. Especially in the fantasy genre. Robert Jordan is one of the better authors in this regard, but all of his representation is riddled with homophobia and his own prejudice. At several points in the book, I had to do constant mental gymnastics to feel comfortable enough to keep reading. The story and worldbuilding were great, but any LGBTQ+ rep was done very poorly. 

 

 

As much as it might make some people uncomfortable, I think this is important. There's a reason why people want these things represented in the first place. When people are uncomfortable with that, I fear it's most often because they are in a world that is catered to them so much that they wouldn't even imagine somebody could feel like that, because it simply doesn't occur to them as a possibility.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I expected about the response in the comments that there was, but I think people grumbling need to consider things like this. This matters.

I wouldn't mind if the story was adapted lets say similar to the way LOTR was adapted from the book, or even the Hobbit expanding on but keeping true to the books.

I would be very upset if they adapted the way Ready Player One was adapted and completely changed from the book.

These are best selling books for a reason, so these movie rewriters think they are better than the original author (s)?  

Well written article...

I just hope you're wrong about most of it. 

A] It's clear from the comments and I would agree... We don't want GoT nudity and gore -- fans (and potential new fans) want WoT with it's glorious subtlety. There's plenty there without it taking center stage. 

B] WoT was ahead of it's time. Let it be and it speaks to a wide audience. Make it "woke" and most of us are out. And by "woke" I mean... Shoving pride, diversity, and feminism down our throats & then having the audacity to demonize, label, and dismiss anyone who disagrees with your moral stances as unelightened, backwoods people that just need to "educate themselves". [Hmm seems to me that RJ intentially wrote the EF5 to be exactly who the "woke" crowd arrogantly dismiss as bigots, racists, and the like]. Harrumph "MEN!"

C] The Rafe comment that WoT is more balance than light vs dark has me more concerned than anything else... Sure, balance is A major theme. But hello! Dark One, Darkfriends, Forsaken are your main antagonists! If the story was more about balance then the series ends when 

D] I really do hope it's a good, successful show. I think it will be high quality ... They have an excellent budget...

But ... Let's be real - a bunch of Fantasy genre movies and shows didn't seem to figure out that why GoT, LoTR, Harry Potter ...were successful... is because they brought the books to screen as best as they could. 

We shall see. 2 months. 

Hopefully we get WoT & not a GoT Leftist Agenda WoT'ish monster child!